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PennyT

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Everything posted by PennyT

  1. Please, someone pm me an address for his widow. Dan was a person whose kindness attracted everyone. I wish to write the family. Penny
  2. He owned at least two sheepdogs. He never managed to train one, that's a fact. At a clinic, I heard him lie about not ever owning one before the second. He was called on the lie because he didn't realize that the person who owned the dog after him in 1987 was there and spoke up. He may have been a wonderful pet dog trainer.
  3. Andrew, in a recent issue of Sheepdog News,has a piece that includes a picture of a young woman in the late 19th century or maybe very early 20th, who may have entered a trial or two. She was the daughter of someone never noted for his skill but the color lithograph of her with dog is terrific. I have a few records of women trialing from the early 1900s in Great Britain, not much, and one from the 1800s. Andrew is the person to ask.
  4. My word. Thanks, Journey and thanks, Mark. That was what I wanted to know. The piece on both bloggers is a gem. About 2 years ago, I took a brief look at the know nothing's take on Border collie history and noted the assertions were so far off plumb as not to be worth reading through. He seemed to think he had proven that all old photos and portraits of Scotch collies, for example one of Queen Victoria's (I forget which one, maybe a dog called Sharp), showed conclusively that all were Border collies on the basis of looks. He was naive yet wrote with such foolish conviction that I couldn't stomach further reading.
  5. I resurrected this thread for two reasons. First, in the PDE/Crufts thread Ooky mentioned cognitive dissonance. Second, I googled the Crufts vet checks. To my amazement, a nameless know nothing now has a modestly successful blog in which he lambastes, for example, the lying Clumber spaniel breeder while continuing to maintain that breeding Border collies for sport is dandy and simply something on the order of parallel evolution. Then I looked up cognitive dissonance to make sure I remembered what it was with reasonable accuracy. I did. The blogger is, indeed, like the fox in the fable who couldn't reach the grapes. This led me to a question: Has the person become respectable? Is it possible? Checking his links, I noted a reference to retrieverman but none (I think none, I could have missed it) to terrierman. This makes me wonder about retrieverman's reputation. I'm pretty sure there are a number of dog blog readers on these Boards. Will someone voice an opinion on the two blogs in question. I'm avoiding the name of the first one as best I can. If you don't know it, private message me through the Boards system.
  6. Someone in Georgia should know. Trig was a good dog as I recall.
  7. "Penny, are you claiming there are health issues with Mm?" I don't need to make so extravagant a claim for the argument to hold. Let's take the case of CEA go-normals bred with carriers or clears or even affected to affected. The ultimate aim is to breed through CEA without losing other genetic components and narrowing the gene pool. Ethical breeders will do this; however, even from ethical hands dogs will slip through to the mills and people who can't help but breed everything and so on. The number of affected dogs this happens to will decrease gradually and eventually reduce numbers. With merle, that can never happen because merle is the valued quality. That dominant gene has to be there waiting to pounce. Mark, I never for a moment thought were doing anything other than being devil's advocate. That's why I responded in the first place. My position is not based on which goal is preferable although I am comfortable with the value argument as the best. I didn't answer that way because I thought you wanted to avoid that line of reasoning. Concerning merle to merle, I have never heard anyone with working border collies regarding CEA say anything as simultaneously specious and pompous as this: "Doing a merle-to-merle breeding should only be done by experienced and knowledgeable breeders, and only when a suitable non-merle with the desired quality is not available." Of course, I doubt anyone would dare.
  8. "Is there any difference between breeding a deaf MM Collie because it has superior breed attributes that you wish to increase in the breed vs. breeding a CEA "go normal" (i.e. CEA affected) working Border Collie because of its superior working ability?" I am under the impression that the goals are different in that breeding a CEA affected dog with normal vision to a clear dog allows the good qualities of the affected dog to remain in the gene pool with the ultimate goal of reducing the incidence of CEA by slowly breeding away from it without narrowing the gene pool. I don't see how that can be the aim of breeding Mm to either Mm or MM since the merle color which itself is directly linked to various health problems is the very quality valued. Unlike CEA, it is not possible to breed past merle related problems because merle is the desired outcome.
  9. Another sad note: I recognize the name Laura Rizzo. If this is the same person, then this is a case of going over to the dark side.
  10. I don't know about sheep on the Mayflower. It wouldn't surprise me. The Spanish certainly seeded them along with cattle. The earliest dog lawsuit in this country that I've run across was filed either by or against Miles Standish for sheep destroyed by a dog and thereby starts centuries of reasons why U.S. sheep raisers either abhorred dogs or quit the sheep business.
  11. She is often given to sweeping and utterly baseless assertions. For example, she stated that herding dogs came over on the Mayflower which is piffle. Penny
  12. I just followed the first link to a horse breeder then on that page found a dog link to what is probably another dubious operation. Anyone ever heard of it? I am making an effort not to use the name.
  13. (the sheepdog may need to be in "pack" and "prey" drive simultaneously.) I've noticed that my top dogs taught themselves nurturing behaviors at younger ages or did not need to teach themselves but knew about kindness to lambs earlier than my good dogs that either matured later or were born to regard baby lambs as either invisible or too visibly unaware of the meaning of an open gate. The latter dogs require coaching on either leaving the lambs alone or nudging them homeward. This is among the many reasons that I don't think in terms of prey drive when describing most behavior associated with Border collies on sheep. Never once have I thought of this as pack drive. Do you? Penny
  14. "Forgive this terse reply" Not today. You hint at an intriguing divergence in mind-sets both human and canine. I'm pretty sure you've been thinking about and researching this subject in various parts of the world on and off for years. Will the distinguished gentleman from Virginia consent to elucidate? Penny
  15. Most people have no idea how deeply sheepdog behavior played into Conwy Lloyd Morgan's canon and the debate over animal reasoning. Morgan, at least, seems to have inquired about training and handling. When he heard that trial dogs work on whistle signals, he decided that put played to the argument that sheepdogs can reason. What did he miss? What have so many generations of students missed as a result? This is not to say reasoning is the same species by species. Penny
  16. I think Clive Wynne is right. "What it means is individuals are responding negatively to being treated less well." My dog, Maid, looks like that when chained while I'm working another dog, then lies down with a thump and theatrical sigh. Penny
  17. My thoughts as well. Exactly when the National Finals are in progress, someone who has been a member since 2002 and posted 436 times writes about a breeder like that. Maybe she is pulling our legs. I hope so. Penny
  18. Probably the first beardie (or possibly Welsh Grey) trialed in the United States was owned by Gouverneur Morris Carnochan. Carnochan was a well-heeled New Yorker who had show dogs, most notably fox and Welsh terriers. He was owner and publisher of “Field and Fancy.” In addition to the usual gamut of Gilded Age interests, Carnochan bred Dorest sheep and Kerry cattle. He was one of the first to try breeding ewes to get two lamb crops a year. His dogs ran in 1905 at a demo on his farm held as part of a county fair. One of them, Laddie, was described a double of Owd Bob. I tend to think he was a beardie from the working description; however, I haven’t read one of a genuine Welsh Grey that I can recall offhand. Laddie kept the sheep “trotting before him back across the ground, around the track, through the bridges and hurdles, keeping up the same barking and buck jumping antics.” “New City Fair a Hummer.” Sun, August 24, 1905. The other dog, Jack, seems to have been a red border collie type because the newspaper said he was the image of Red Wull. Carnochan (or more likely his head shepherd did but you never know) trialed Jack at least two other times, maybe three, once going all the way to Toronto to see his dog run. Insofar as I know, neither dog was registered in a kennel club; I looked for U.S. mentions because Carnochan was an AKC bigwig. The good thing about dogs owned by people like G. M. Carnochan and J. P. Morgan was that their dogs didn’t make a move without being noticed and written about. A few years ago, I corresponded pleasantly with the Carnochan family. The one person, Bliss Carnochan, who might have had records, does not. G. M. was his grandfather. The eldest son of G.M. inherited the farm and turned it into a place to raise lab animals: rats, mice, and guinea pigs. He died without issue, so the direct line of farm ownership has vanished. If you wanted to track these dogs down, you would have to read ag journals carefully to find the farm manager’s name or the head shepherd’s, then get lucky and find descendants with records. For more details on early sheepdog trials in North America and on finding descendants of early trialists, get the program for the 2010 National Finals. Penny
  19. Denise, who is the dog in the photo that begins this thread? I'm pm'ing about buying some of the shots. Penny
  20. What I think is that the appointment is neither here nor there to the bill eliminating random source dealers. That particular bill will do a great deal of good without opening up the wider philosophical issue of HSUS which is an entirely different organization.
  21. I've owned sheep for almost 20 years now and for the first time I have a serious coyote problem. I've started putting sheep in smaller areas at night and that has stopped predation. I'm curious about electronet from Premier. The blurb implies that the newer kind will keep out predators. I noticed the net does seem to reach the ground and is quite tall. Does it work? Anyone tried it? The last electric fence netting I had was not intended to keep out anything hungry. The mesh started above ground level. The whole thing was a huge nuisance anyway and ended up in the dump. The only times the mesh wasn't grounded out seemed to be when I touched it, then the gigantic charger box thing was always working fine and stray grass did not interfere. Penny
  22. I think I should clarify that I meant: follow Amelia's link and write concerning the bill. I did not mean to write other registries. My primary interest is in stopping bunchers who profit by stealing dogs. Penny
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