Jodi

A close up of the boys ... And a couple of puppy pictures thrown in for good measure. Jodi

So, I've taken Bill's advice and bought some loose minerals. I saw in the "salt lick" thread everyone basically free feeds the loose minerals. I have a very small flock (10 sheep) that I don't plan on expanding any time soon. Can someone recommend a feeder that would work well for me? And what can I use temporarily until I pick one up? Thanks. Jodi

Hmmm .... Lends new meaning to the term "cookie cutter" eh? Jodi

I found it. I figured out what that dog is in the first photo! Here it is. ACHC?? Just when I thought I'd seen it all.... Jodi

When questioned about their breeding practices, I love how the Barbie owners claim, "It's not that my dog's can't herd. It's just that they're not exposed to it. If my dog had the right handler and the opportunity to work, I'm sure he'd be just as good as any of your dogs. He stalks the frisbee, and herds the kids, and nips my ankles, I'm sure he'd be great at herding!" Sound familiar? Jodi

Thanks for typing that up, Eileen. I sent my letter off to them on Friday, so we'll see what, if any, response I get. Jodi

Well, I think in my letter, I am going to tell them that if I have the right to register my dog, I should have the right to de-register him. We'll see how it goes. Jodi

I called the AKC today to ask them if there were any forms -- or particular procedure I need to follow -- to de-register my dog. After much ado and time on hold, I spoke to that person's supervisor who informed me that the AKC "doesn't do that." I asked, "Why not?" Her response was, "I don't know." Imagine that. She told me to put something in writing and direct it to case management. I will send the letter off today. Jodi

I've only got ten sheep myself for now. I had a small block out there that I was keeping an eye on, but with all the moisture we had, I was concerned with how much was just dissolving and how much the sheep were actually getting. It sounds like it would be easier to monitor their intake with loose minerals. I'll drop by the feed store today and see what they have. Thanks again. Jodi

Katelynn - Here's a clip from my first post: "if I come up with a somewhat intelligent idea (ha!), I'll let you know." This may take a while! :eek: Jodi

I'm with you, Katelynn. I was just thinking out loud, because I know a full ban on dual registration has been shot down by the ABCA board in the past. Just trying to find a viable option that could be offered up in the event a full ban continues to be shot down. Jodi

Eileen - I know the topic of the ABCA doing something similar as the CBCA's system was addressed on this board (or somewhere) at one point. Do you think it might be worth re-addressing now that the AKC's books are open indefinitely? Maybe with different parameters? I haven't thought about it much yet, so if I come up with a somewhat intelligent idea (ha!), I'll let you know. Maybe it (whatever "it" is) could be offered as an alternative to banning dual registration altogether for those that are opposed. Jodi

Thanks everyone. Will do. Jodi

A while ago, someone (not on the boards) mentioned to me something about an ingredient in salt licks to avoid when buying a salt lick for sheep. I can't for the life of me remember what it was though. Any ideas? Thanks. Jodi

Thank you for the update, Eileen. Why am I not surprised? Oh, and let me guess. I'll bet the AKC didn't send a refund check for the registration that has now been cancelled, did it? "subject to our right to revoke such registration" It will be interesting to see if I have a right to revoke my own registration. Jodi

A common misconception. The body language used in the very beginning stages of herding might be similar in that you use your body to push your dog out, but it becomes very different later in training. Be careful with this line of thinking. For example, I was always told by my former "trainer" to make sure my dog never crossed between me and the sheep (which is what I think you're talking about ...). When it came time to do inside flanks, I had a hard time getting him to flank all the way around to where he needed to come between me and the sheep. If you don't have inside flanks, you won't be able to control a crossdrive. Jodi

Eileen, Denise, Bill, Rebecca, Laurie, Bob and everyone else responding, thank you! Thank you for re-hashing this subject yet again. I read and re-read the posts, and learn a ton every time this subject comes up. Being that the AKC studbooks are now open indefinitely, I think it's completely appropriate, if not necessary, to throw the topic around once again. Eileen, you said: "They are chipping away constantly to accomplish that, and dual registration is a necessary, if transitional, step in that process." In thinking about this, what will a ban on dual registration accomplish with the BCSA as far as getting the working lines INTO the AKC? I understand that, should the ban take place, someone will be able to buy a working dog, register it AKC, and lose its ABCA registration and will not be able to have any pups ABCA registered. They still took a dog out of the working gene pool. I know I'm getting way ahead of myself here, but do you have any thoughts on how to avoid that scenario in the first place? We all know darned well the AKC will not stop accepting ABCA registered dogs. Just a thought. I was talking to a friend of mine tonight, and the subject of a ban on dual registration came up. I mentioned to her that I was in the process of drafting my letter to the AKC to have my one dual-registered dog deregistered. She mentioned to me that she heard the AKC won't do it. I explained to her that I heard they started charging a fee to deregister. Do we know anyone who has done it very recently that can shed some light? Also, another question came up. What if the dual registration ban happens, and the AKC decides not to deregister dogs that people request deregistration on? Is it going to work like the CH ban, where "all dogs after [such and such] date cannot be dual registered"? Thanks. Jodi

Sorry! I deleted the link. I'll stick with herding. Jodi

Here are some flyball box instructions: (link to bad box deleted) Hope that helps. I don't know a thing about flyball. Jodi

Eileen - I hope you don't mind if I quote something you said earlier ... Bob - Read back to where I asked about this. Eileen said, "The board actually did recently consider limiting the number of litters per year that any one person can register to seven, and limiting the number of litters registrable out of one bitch in a 2-year period. The latter proposal failed on a tie vote, and the former proposal was tabled. I think the main problems people had with this, aside from the longstanding reflex aversion to regulation by the registry, is that any number set will apply to all breeders and could come to be looked on as a norm. Breeding good working dogs is an art, and breeders with the knowledge and skill to breed good working dogs are few, and are the pillars of the breed. We don't want to limit our good breeders to a number that would be appropriate for bad breeders, and we don't want to "approve" of breeding by bad breeders at a level that's appropriate for good breeders. Besides, there was a feeling that any numerical limit on the number of litter registrations per year by a single breeder could be easily circumvented by the very people it was aimed at, since they could spread title to their breeding dogs around among family members, etc." Any other suggestions? Jodi

"Because the AKC provides incentives to encourage bad breeding, and the ABCA does not." Wow. That sums it up perfectly, Eileen. Jodi

Bob - The AKC sets a standard based on how a dog looks, and invites people to breed their purebred dogs to that standard and to compete to see who has the prettiest dogs. I think people would agree with me when I say the AKC and the breeders share in the responsbility for what the "Barbie Collie" is today. I don't think anyone is "not blaming" the ABCA for "letting" unworthy BCs from being registered or bred. I think it comes down to HOW to do it where it would be fair, cost effective, and an asset to the breed without losing valuable dogs. The method by which to do this is open for suggestions. Got any ideas? Jodi

Eileen - "I can truthfully say that I don't know anyone who is concerned about losing money. But there are quite a few people concerned about losing good dogs. Otherwise, I think you gave a good summary." Yes, in the case of the farmers and ranchers, yes, I agree that the loss of good dogs is a huge concern. I have had this discussion with many people, and a valid argument that is easily understood due to the enormity of the task, is how money would, eventually, become an issue if individual testing of dogs was required for registration. Even from my own standpoint, if registration cost me $200 per dog instead of whatever it costs me now, would I be able to afford to register my dogs? I work a decent-paying full time job. Imagine the farmer or rancher. They, more than likely, have much better things to spend their money on, and as long as their dogs get the job done, why would they spend the extra cash for the piece of paper? As far as losing good dogs due to dual registration, I don't think that would be as large of an issue as the farmer/rancher lines. Yes, there are a lot of people who buy dogs from out of really good working stock, who will then dual register them to participate in ACK stuff, and if dual registration were banned, a percentage of them would stick with ACK and we would lose potentially valuable dogs that way. However, I think there are far more puppymills and BYBs who dual register their litters to be able to use it as a selling point. I don't think the gene pool would miss many of those, and I don't think the ABCA would miss the income from registration of the litters. At this point in time, I support banning dual registration. I would, however, be interested in hearing from people who do not, and why. "... some of us who have been racking our brains over them for years may think we've considered every possible option and ramification, and we may be wrong. So new ideas are always welcome." I wish I had one. Jodi

IronHorse - Here is my oh-so-novice opinion, so take it for what it's worth -- which doesn't amount to much. A lot of the problem with "documentation of the parent dogs working ability" is that there would have to be someone to test all the dogs for something like that. This means having evaluators being available for people to bring their dogs to. There are many farmers and ranchers who, if it was the only means of registering their dogs, wouldn't bother. That would be a lot of money lost for the ABCA. The other option would be to have evaluators go out to their homes to evaluate their dogs for registration, and that would be very costly, if the ABCA could find enough people interested in being evaluators. And then you get into the whole problem of "what qualifies someone to be an evaluator?" and "to what level does the dog need to work to be accepted for registration?" among other things. As far as the ABCA allowing dual registration, the biggest argument for it that I've heard is that the ABCA would stand to lose a lot of money because of the percentage of people who would lean toward ACK registration and drop the ABCA registration. One issue that is a sore point with me that I don't have an answer for is why the ABCA doesn't put a limit on the number of litters per year any one person can register, or how many litters out of one bitch can be registered in their lifetime. There are tons of "breeders" out there who are putting nearly 100 puppies (or more) on the ground PER YEAR, dual registering the litters, and they are allowed to register all of them. Now I know this is not just an ABCA issue. Being the puppies are being dual registered, it is also an ACK issue despite the fact that ACK has a breeding limit in place. But the people who "only" breed their bitches once a year, keep impeccable records, hip and eye test, and even go so far as to test their breeding stock in a round pen on dog broke sheep, no one even so much as bats an eye at them. From what I have been told, the ABCA does not have the money, manpower, or interest in being the breeding police. I can understand that. I just wish I had an answer for it. Like possibly hiring even just a few people to do spot investigations on certain kennels and banning certain breeders from registering pups with ABCA, which they have done. I just wish it could be on a larger scale. Even so, it doesn't stop the breeding, as those breeders just turn to other less-reputable registries. But at least the ABCA would be making a stronger stand against that type of rampant breeding. Jodi

Welcome to the boards, Rosanne! Nice group of people. In fact, most conversations here make me wish I lived on the east coast! I've heard a lot of great things about Freeze. Do you have a picture of her you can send me? Thanks. Jodi