Kelliwic Border Collies

I second Miztiki's suggestion to rule out medical issues, unless your dog is just unfit. A dog's coat insulates against both cold AND warm weather. It is best not to shave the dog/clip the body hair short, although I've heard that clipping the belly hair can help keep them cooler. If medical and fitness reasons can both be ruled out, maybe you could just get a plastic wading pool for him to cool off in after exercise. Most dogs love 'em, and if he's fit and healthy, he's probably panting to cool himself more than from exhaustion. He doesn't tire out like this in cool weather?

I have to point out that if you didn't actually SEE anything happen to the dog, it may have been crying out of fear and nothing else. Many dogs who have not been properly desensitized to being handled will will "ki-yi" and positively SHRIEK, even though the human is being quite gentle and not causing the animal anything other than mental discomfort... 1)especially if they are in an unfamiliar, noisy environment with a lot of strange dogs, 2)especially if they are not used to being restrained, 3)especially if they're not used to standing on a small table, 4)especially if they're not used to being groomed (and therefor possibly matted, making some discomfort almost unavoidable) and 5)most ESPECIALLY if they are not used to feeling their paws are "trapped" (as you would hold them to clip nails). In this case, a "goooood doggie, it's ooookaaaaay" type of response will only reinforce the dog's fearful reaction. When I used to assist as an instructor at an obedience school, we taught our puppy and beginner students how to clip nails and saw this reaction from many dogs, every eight weeks... The best approach in this case is a matter-of-fact one; a professional groomer simply does not have time to desensitize every animal they see on a daily basis (that should have been done by the owner). I have a few groomer friends and they also see dogs and cats become so fearful that they can become dangerous on the table; either by biting or scratching the groomer, or by flopping around the table in a way that could cause them to fall off and hang themselves. So an animal like this would need to be restrained by an assistant, which might also cause the animal to be vocal. I am only presenting a scenario in which things may not have been what they seemed. Naturally, I am NOT defending a groomer or assistant who is correcting a dog that actually has been hurt or injured in some way.

I feed my older dogs one tablet of human "double-strength" per day. I just drop it in their food dish with dinner and they eat them. From what I've learned, the combination of glucosamine, chondroitin, and MSM is the most effective, while glucosamine alone provides some level of comfort but doesn't improve joint condition. Puritan's Pride is having a great sale right now, buy one get one free, or buy two get three free! http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=B...PID=1029&CID=62

What's the point. BOB BC 2006, looks like BOB BC 2005, 2004, 2003, 2002 and so on and so on. If they stuck the picture of 1999's BOB BC, who the H--L would know the difference? [/QB] I think you missed the point of my sarcasm. I was amused that as their example of a BC, they showed a dog doing something that looks like working (could be chasing a ball for all I know), and that dog does not remotely appear to be built like their so-called "Best." For their example of the breed, I'd expect them to use a pic of some show champion that fits what they consider the "ideal" (as compared to the show standard). But the dog in their pic does not look like an over-coated, clunky, fat, perfectly marked black and white cookie-cutter ring dog.

Check out the results page of the Westminster Kennel Club show: http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2006/...breed/bob2.html Scroll down to Border Collie where they have the details of the Best of Breed dog listed. But click the Border Collie link in his info and look at the photo they display. I wonder why they do not have a photo of the "Best of Breed" dog as their example of the breed!

Valley Vet has a few single dose vaccines available but I'm not sure if they had the combo. http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_sub_category.h...92-00b0d0204ae5

I totally agree that the quality of a sire's offspring can be affected by the quality of the dam, but I think this is part of what was taken into consideration when determining Secretariat's overall value in contributing to the breed. It is very specifically taken into consideration in Friesian horse breeding, for example. Friesian stallions must pass a performance test to be given a temporary (5-season) permit to breed. At the end of that time, his offspring are inspected, and the percentage of "star" (higher-quality) mares that the stallion has been bred to can actually impact whether the stallion is considered to have made a positive contribution to the breed. If he seems to show a positive contribution (the quality of the broodmares being a factor), he gains a lifetime breeding approval. If not, he is no longer allowed to breed. Much like "breeding for work" is a concept hard for people to understand if they are coming from the AKC point of view, the concept of controlling or licensing a sire for breeding is difficult for most people to understand and accept, but IMO I think it is actually a very good policy. The process of passing the initial approval is very difficult; 440 stallions were presented at the first round last November, 83 passed that first round. Just TWO stallions were granted approval at the final test in March (some stallions will be tested this fall). For those of you who understand Friesian breeding, I know I have simplified the process to an extreme, but further detail gets too far from the point I am hoping to make...and certainly from the topic...I'll try to stop talking about Friesians now... I'm really looking forward to checking out the sites you posted, thanks! Megan Q.

However, Secretariat was well-known as a very good (perhaps excellent) broodmare sire. Megan Q.

Wait--Katelynn, did you mean ABCA does not require photos? Guess I misunderstood which registry you were talking, about sorry!

Now just admit it Julie, you have baited breath because you are secretly working on getting continous eye contact from your dogs, so you can compete in obedience! Megan Q.

AKC does require photos. Check out page 3 of this document, in the Required Attachments section http://www.akc.org/pdfs/ADOPEN.pdf If that doesn't work, go to http://www.akc.org/reg/open_registration.cfm and click on Open Registration Application at the very bottom of the page. Megan Q.

Wow, interesting! Thanks for sharing it.

Good news! Thanks again!

Denise, thanks, that's one of the pages I have bookmarked. I'm glad that so far BCs appear safe, but how would a person know what drugs are in what class? The drug used in Interceptor is not specifically mentioned on the problem or potential problem lists on the vetmed page, so I wouldn't have known they were classed the same. I found another page that lists some of the most commonly used (HW prev) drugs: HeartGard (ivermectin/pyrantal), Revolution (selamectin applied topically), Interceptor (millbemycin), and Sentinal (milbemycin/lufenuron). Curious for more knowledge...thanks! PS: Could it be possible that different breeds might have a different mutant gene? Ie, could BCs have a gene that is not being detected by the currently available test? Not trying to create a panic amongst BC owners, just wondering of the liklihood.

I have been avoiding using Heartguard for my dogs due to the Ivermectin. From the research I've done, I haven't yet read that Border Collies are specifically identified as a breed with the gene that could cause a fatal reaction to ivermectin, but since related breeds are affected, I would rather be safe than sorry. I thought it was only ivermectin that the mutant gene reacted to (as far as HW preventative goes) and so thought I'd be okay using Interceptor, but recently I read on a web site that the affected dogs may also react to other HW meds, such as the millbemycin oxime in Interceptor, and the active ingredient in one of the other popular preventatives (I forgot which one). Has anyone else heard that the gene reacts to most HW preventatives? Or is the general research at this point showing an ivermectin-specific sensitivity? Thanks for any input!

I've heard that Vitamin C can help a dog with panno or OCD. Obviously it can't "cure" OCD but those people I've known whose dogs had OCD and/or panno reported that the Vit. C really did make a difference in the dogs limping less frequently and less severely. Has anyone else heard this? Any ideas on why Vit. C works?

Thanks again for all the ideas. I'm going to start with the simplest idea of soaking the food, and work my way up if neccessary. So far, I've soaked two meals, and it seems to be doing the job. The kibbles are soft (but not total mush) after about 10-15 minutes of soaking, and I make sure there's enough water in there so that they're still kinda floaty. Although she's only had two soaked meals, I think this may be our solution. She can't really scoop up huge mouthfuls of kibble with all the water in there, so she's eating more slowly (hopefully lowering the risk of bloat), plus I'm not worrying about the hard/rough edges of the kibble going down her throat. I was thinking of soaking the food anyway, but I'm glad that other people suggested it too.

Thanks for the replies! Lots of interesting ideas. I did try hand feeding for a little while, but it didn't change things and it was just impractical for me. I only have the two dogs. They are in a sit stay till the bowls go down and I release them to eat, so they both start at the same time. I had thought of the rocks we used to use at the barn for a horse who sucked up his grain, but that forced him to take it in more slowly...I don't see how rocks (tennis balls) in her dish will actually make her chew so I didn't try that. I like the cookie sheet idea, even though it doesn't make her chew, at least she's not "scooping" the food in by the mouthful. I guess this would actually have the same end result as the rock/tennis ball in food, by forcing slower intake. LOL! Rebecca, good point about nature's diet of BARF. Even though the dry kibble seems as though it must be abrasive, I suppose it's nothing worse than raw broken bones. Still it's hard to be "okay" with it when I hear the noise of the kibble chunks grinding against each other as they are swallowed. Guess I'm too soft, hee! If I soak her food and freeze it, do you mean I should be putting down a bowl full of frozen, pre-softened food? Like rock-hard, straight from the icebox? So it would slow her down because she'd have to chip away at it with her front teeth? I am probably being really dense here and missing the point, but this sounds to be the opposite extreme of hoovering up the food. As I've mentioned, she's an industrious chewer on the really hard Nylabone things, so I guess the frozen food challenge wouldn't make her give up. I hadn't thought about bloat in a Border Collie, but I guess it can happen to any dog with risky eating habits. Raising her food up is easy to do, and maybe that would even cause her to intake fewer kibbles at a time. Again, thanks to all, and I'll be interested to hear if anyone else has additional input. Edit: Christine, I can't imagine a BC sized dog swallowing TD whole...yikes!

Hi all, Does anyone have any ideas or experience with the long-term effects (if any) of a dog literally swallowing kibble whole? One of my girls has done this for the almost five years I've had her. Her first two years were in a kennel/barn situation. There were some 10 dogs or so kept in the barn, I suppose creating the potential for a dog to feel the need to "hurry!" before the food was stolen by another dog. However, the dogs were each in their own stall/kennel. They could see the dogs across the aisle from them through the chain-link doors, but a half-wall separated them from the dog next door, so from my human perspective, I'd have thought they'd feel "safe" enough when eating not to bolt food. At any rate, she eats very fast and almost never chews. Her teeth and gums are fine, so she's not avoiding chewing due to mouth pain. I've tried feeding my two dogs in separate rooms, or feeding her crated with the other dog out, and feeding her out with the other dog crated, but she still seems to feel the need to eat as fast as possible. When I come to her while she eats, she eats even faster (somehow!), but never guards the food or challenges...just tries to get it all in! She also frantically chews bones (because of this, she mostly only gets Nylabones). She works them so hard and fast she actually gets herself panting in about 10 minutes of chewing. It seems to me that this twice-daily abrasion of her esophagus and upper GI can not possibly be okay in the long run. Am I right, or just worrying too much? I'd also guess it would affect how well she digests her food, though she very rarely ever has too loose or too firm stools. She is also in good general health. I've been considering asking my vet for some SD TD to force her to chew, since the "kibbles" are so huge, but I understand that the TD isn't intended to be the primary diet. I don't know if her food (brand/flavor/shape) makes a difference, but it doesn't seem to. She eats equally fast no matter what it is. For the primary part of the five years, she's been on the standard Iams stuff, along with a teaspoon per day of Missing Link supplement. Earlier this year I fed Eukanuba Puppy when I thought we were expecting (there's another story). I have just bought a sample bag of Wellness to try. She's been fine on the Iams, but I think on a better food she'd probably do better. The Wellness is a very oddly-shaped kibble; it's PYRAMID shaped, and (from my human perspective!) that has GOT to be a heck of a lot more rough on the throat than the UFO-shaped Iams, but it's not slowing her down. Should I stop worrying and let her inhale and do it the way that comes naturally to her? Should I soak her food a little before putting it down? Should I find a 12-Step program for dogs with eating disorders? BTW- on a tangent here...when I was out looking for a better brand, I compared labels of a variety of brands mentioned on another thread on these boards. Did anyone know that Paul Newman has a dog food line now? Anyone know if it's any good? And, I see that the Wellness line is made by "Old Mother Hubbard" dog food. I thought they were like, a way-cheapo junky-food manufacturer, was I wrong? Or perhaps I am thinking of another company. The product info on the label looks good, which is why I figured I'd give it a try. Thanks for any comments or input!

Caroline, I personally feed 2x a day, for adults. I know free-choice works for some, but scheduled feeding means I am sure of exactly how much each dog is eating...and in my case, scheduled feeding also means I am sure the right dog is getting the prescription food. Good luck!

I asked the same question not too long ago to an email list, and here's the basics I received: UK/US hip scores compared Orthopaedic Foundation for Animals/British Veterinary Association Excellent 0-4 (no>3/hip) Good 5-10 (no>6/hip) Fair 11-18 Borderline 19-25 Mild Dysplacia 26-35 Moderate Dysplacia 36-50 Severe Dysplacia 51-106 This Australian site has a good explanation of the scoring system (Australian and UK systems are the same, I'm told): www.nationalbordercolliecouncil.com Click on Health Problems, then on the HD article link.

Caroline said: Normal ranges are BUN 6-29 Creatinine 0.6-1.6 Interesting that my printout indicates normal range as slightly different: BUN: 8.0 - 24.0 creat: 0.5-1.4 Dogdoc, is this a difference of the equipment used, or the literature used in the school the vet attended, or what accounts for this (very slight) difference? Just curious.

Caroline, my Kaylie was diagnosed with early stage kidney failure several years ago (four, I think). The vets (I took her for a second opinion as well) both attibuted this to her bout with Lyme disease, a few years prior. For Kaylie, the low-protein diet has made a big difference and she's been doing great. We started on the Science Diet Prescription diet, but switched to Eukanuba Early Stage Kidney. A friend had a dog who was on this formula, and the dog passed on; my friend had a brand new bag of the Eukanuba and gave it to me. I saw much more improvement in Kaylie (overall; coat, attitude, and she also liked it better) after the bag of Eukanuba, so we stuck with that. Her BUN and creatinine levels last week were 50.0 and 3.2; very slightly elevated from April. Last week was our first visit to a new vet and nearly every staff member and the vet remarked on how GREAT she looked for 10 years old; they seemed surprised! I just thanked them and didn't bother to correct them (she's actually 11 years old). That's my personal experience with using diet to manage kidney failure...I'm sure each situation is different.