Pipedream Farm

Well Rebecca. If I had to pick a ewe to collect colostrum from, it would have been this problem ewe. She is a huge milk producer normally. She also stays milky for an unusually long amount of time compared to the others. She just doesn't seem like she's bagging up this year. I'm guessing she did have mastitis after all. I'm within driving distance of Sheepman's Supply if I don't get any collected before she lambs. Crossing my fingers I'm wrong and don't have bottle lambs on the way! Renee

Thanks Bill. Just trying to be prepared for a potential problem on the horizon. I have an older ewe that doesn't seem to be bagging up normally, but is definitely pregnant. I kept her last fall against my better judgement. She didn't seem to have any signs of mastitis(no swellling, lumps, etc.), but she never seemed to dry up completely last season after weaning. She typically lambs later in the cycle so I should have time to collect some --and with any luck won't need it this year after all. Thanks, Renee

When collecting colostrum to save for future use, how much can be milked out of a ewe on average without impairing its own lambs? Thanks, Renee

Hi Beverly. I was wondering how you decide when a young dog is ready for work in situations where it might be challenged such as working with ewes and lambs? Are you looking for a certain level of training or attitude? Obviously there will be a lot of variablitiy from dog to dog. I was just wondering about your ideas on this subject. Thanks in advance, Renee

Sorry Amy, I have enough experience to know what you're proposing won't work the way you want. BTW C-Span does not show the real work being done only the show that congress wants us to see. The real work goes on behind closed doors. Mark

Sue, If your dogs had the lepto 4-way last year (in the DHLPP) I think they will only need one of the lepto only this year. Mark

Sue, Since the lepto 4-way is a new vaccine for your dogs they will need 2 shots each this year. Mark

Sue, Denise Wall started a thread on this, Lepto heads up, in July of 2006. There's lots of info in this thread. Mark

I welcome Kris to the boards and hope that we will be kept abreast of the studies. I also hope that this wasn't a spam of someone's agenda and we'll never here from Kris again. Mark

Old info, there is a new 4 way vaccine (recombinant proteins) for lepto covering the serovars which are more prevalent. Mark

Source: CDC Mark

Welcome aboard, from Washington Co. MD. Mark

I know of a collie breeder who has working collies; they are not border collies but I've seen them gather, drive, and load a trailer with sheep. Based upon what I saw, I suspect these dogs would have been in trouble with heavy/challenging sheep. I guess it comes down to your definition of "work" (or what is good enough). Mark

As a research scientist I understand the desire to know for certain the cause of the disease and this data could be useful in tracking the disease geographically. However, would the PCR test results alter the treatment for this dog? Isn't doxy the treatment for all tick-borne diseases? Mark

Recombitek Lyme only protects against lyme. It would not have helped in this case. Mark

Well BJ and Rae were extremely impressed with your whistles! They perked right up and started cocking their heads. They were probably thinking that they wished I could whistle like that! Renee

I too appreciate Bill's point of view (that of a commercial producer). I think the difficulty with these discussions is the vast differences we all have in flock size, climate, sheep production infrastructure (available shearers, distance to markets, butchers, etc), and customer preferences in the ultimate market for the products (direct vs. wholesale). All of these factors must be weighed when determining which breed will work best. Mark

Bill, There are lots of examples where you've bashed hair sheep without hard facts; here's just one... No livestock breed ever lives up to the breed org's hype; the well established breeds have gone through this hype and now everyone knows the truth. Dorpers and some katahdins do not shed clean; any katahdins in our flock that do not shed clean get culled and we select rams that shed clean. We now rarely have a katahhdin that needs to be clipped. My attitude is what's the point of a hair sheep if it needs to be clipped? As far as our growth rates and finishing weights, I cannot find the book where we kept these numbers for the first couple of years. Our target weight is 90 lbs, we sell the live lamb to our customers and as a courtesy deliver it to the butcher for them. Our customers are responsible for paying the butchering costs which currently run $85/head. Who says you need to buy registered stock? There are pure bred flocks of hair sheep out there that are not registered and therefore do not command the inflated prices. It just takes more time for find them. I can say that we've seen quite a few flocks of katahdins that we wouldn't want on our place; they were too scrawny and short in the body. This seems to be more the norm that what we have here. We recently added RomneyxBorder Leicesters to our farm; while they are not a meat breed we will be able to compare our hair sheep to woollies under the same management system. Mark

Bill, One of the great things about sheep is there are breeds that do better in some areas than others; which is why there are so many breeds. Your experiences with each breed may not be the same as another in a different environment. Just because a breed didn't work well for your management, environment, market, and production goals doesn't mean that breed is worthless for all producers (which is the way you represent hair sheep every time you post). For smaller flocks the cost of shearing will cut into profits more than it will for larger flocks (I don't see shearing in your analysis, your ewes still need to be maintained and it's an expense woollies have that hair don't). BTW our katahdins typically finish out heavier than 85 lbs and dress out more than 45% and when we had a KatahdinxDorper ram the lambs were typically a bit bigger. Size does matter in some markets but in others it's not the most important aspect in making the sale and without a sale it makes no difference how big the lamb was. Oh, my market is willing to pay >$5/lb hanging weight. Mark

Pearce, The main point of posting these few papers is in response to .. I was trying to show there is more research going on in this area than is generally known amongst flock owners. I came across a large long running study in Australia with merino's to increase resistance and attempting to unravel the genetics. Mark

Bill, With all your hair sheep bashing I've often wonder if the hair sheep you had were good or bad examples of the breed. Our katahdin lambs grow at the same rate as lambs from a nearby nice flock of cheviot x texels (both are grass fed, low imput). Also, your market may be driven by size/weight, ours is driven by other factors; otherwise our customers would never have stopped eating lamb from the store prior to buying from us. Many of our customers state they cannot stand the taste of the lamb from the store. Mark

There are many studies looking at parasite resistance in sheep, some have found differences between breeds prior to selection for resistance. That does not mean selection for resistance cannot be made within your own flock and preferred breed. Microarray analysis of selection lines from outbred populations to identify genes involved with nematode parasite resistance in sheep Resistance to Internal Parasites in Lambs of Hair Sheep Composite Breeds These results confirm high levels of parasite resistance in Caribbean hair sheep and a moderate level of resistance in Katahdins. Dorper crossbred lambs were not more resistant that Dorset crosses, but the Dorper appears to express a degree of resilience to infection that may reduce symptoms of parasitism in moderately infected animals. Genetics of Resistance to Haemonchus contortus infections in sheep Heritabilities for summary traits were estimated from a REML analysis that included fixed effects of year and season plus effects of either sex (for lambs) or age category (for ewes). Heritability estimates for MBW, MPCV, and MLFEC were 0.74, 0.57, and 0.27 respectively (all P < 0.01), in lambs, and 0.24 (P < 0.1), 0.25 (P < 0.05) and 0.55 (P < 0.01), respectively, in ewes. Across-year repeatability estimates in ewes for MBW, MPCV, and MLFEC were 0.83, 0.54 and 0.56, respectively (all P < 0.01). Resistance was antagonistically associated with estimated breeding values for growth in ewes but not in lambs. Fertility and prolificacy in ewes were not related to resistance. Breed differences in resistance to H. contortus were also evaluated in 4 to 6-mo-old crossbred Dorset and Dorper, straightbred Katahdin, and Barbados Blackbelly x St. Croix lambs. Dorpers were not more resistant than Dorsets but appeared to cope better, with higher PCV and similar BW during infection compared to Dorsets. Katahdin and barbados Blackbelly x St. Croix lambs were more resistant with lower FEC. Genes controlling resistance to gastrointestinal nematodes in ruminants Quantitative trait loci for internal nematode resistance in sheep: a review Mark

This could simply be because these dogs are from different breeds, despite what the conformation standard implies. Mark

Kim, Don't worry about your pup being a mix; it makes no difference to us. Dogs can have reactions to vaccinations; we have 2 that reacted to a combo vaccine as pups. One was probably bad enough to be considered anaphylactic shock. We suspect it was the vaccine prep (unique to each manufacturer) since there were no reactions from either when we switch to a different manufacturer. Your vet is your best help in this situation. If you're happy with how closly your vet is working with you on this problem stick with him/her; if you're not happy find a new vet asap. Please keep us posted. Mark

My understanding is "fat-tail" is a type not a breed, like hair is a type. Mark