Pipedream Farm

Thanks. I'll play around with them up close --not today though, it's bitter out today. I played around years ago with gathering with two dogs (not the same set as this morning). With Mark's old Blue dog and my Starr, it didn't work so well. They took it as some kind of competition to see who could get to the sheep first. When I tried Rae and Starr. Rae took the attitude that she really shouldn't interfere since Starr had the sheep. Now my old dog Moss with Starr would work together some. Moss was an Irish import that had been used for brace so he seemed to get it just naturally. It does add another interesting dynamic seeing how two dogs mesh as a team. Renee

It's funny this got asked because I was thinking of asking for tips on this after what happened this morning at our place. We have 2 large handmade feed troughs that need to be replaced soon because they will tip over readily if the sheep push into it too much resulting in spilling their feed all over the ground (actually only one trough is bad about this). Until this trough gets replaced or redesigned, I've been simply holding it from tipping while they eat the grain in the morning. I've been using a dog to hold them out in the field until I'm ready for the sheep, then I call the dog off. This has worked fine this winter, but now that we have lambs, plus the ram is a bit of a pig (he gets cranky about being held away from the feed) the job is getting more difficult. Anyhow, to make a long story short I brought out BJ to back Bette up this morning. Now these dogs are already whistle trained on the same whistles and are both very responsive to commands. It started out a bit counterproductive with them both taking the same commands (saying their names first meant nothing to them). Eventually, BJ was off to one side moving the ram and a small group to the main group and Bette was near me. I ended up leaning down and whispering Bette's command to her so BJ wouldn't hear. Once the sheep were grouped together with both dogs behind them, they naturally drove them out quite well. I didn't really care where the dogs took them as long as it was away from the paddock where I feed. They both took a down and held the sheep until I called them off. Anyhow, sorry to be so long winded. I was wondering about any tips to get them started only taking their commands with their name. I'm not interested in changing the whistles or competing in brace (where would you even do that here anyhow?) --just want to do a job. Renee

I'm going to miss Kate's gingerbread???? AAARRRGGGGHHH!!!!!!!! Have fun this weekend everybody. Wish we could be there! Renee

I like to teach them a down when they are young, but not the first few times on sheep. I try to only ask young dogs to down when it makes sense for them to do it (on balance). I think that reinforces them to trust your judgement when you ask for downs. All I really look for is a stop and then they get the sheep again right away so it almost becomes a game. From the dogs I've trained so far, I think the ones that got a down taught consistently and early were better stoppers later on. Some individuals will push a stop more than others though no matter what. As far as on their belly or just a stop depends on the individual dog --one that's always trying to take those extra steps will be one I'd be more likely to insist on a true down rather than just a stop. Renee

I'll further confuse things by telling you I usually stand in front of the post as the sheep are coming. I decide as they're coming where I want to be. Mostly all I do whether it's the open dogs or the beginning dogs is simply use my body position to influence where I want the dog to go. In terms of remembering which way to turn though has to do with which hand I put my stick in. If the turn is in the away direction (counter clockwise), I put the stick in my right hand. If it's in the come-bye direction, I put it in my left hand. As soon as I send the dog on the outrun, I make sure the stick is in the correct hand. I think the real key is to simply figure out a method that works for you and be consistent about doing it. The longer you do it, it will be more natural and you won't be thinking about each individual step so much. Renee

Caroline, I had no idea you had been hurt! I'm so sorry. I bet you'll be ready for a party when that cast comes off. It must be really miserable in this heat. Renee

You have to do what is appropriate for you and the individual dog and the situation. I think as Becca said earlier "never say never" (up to a point). I can definitely say there are certain situations where anger is appropriate (again, up to a point). In general I'm a pretty quiet trainer, but I can clearly remember a day training one of my dogs and being downright livid. My intent was to whack the stick hard on the ground in front of her as I gave a lie down. Yep, you guessed it, my aim was bad and she got whacked on the nose. That was about 7 years ago and I still feel a bit guilty about it. On the other hand, other than my bad aim. I don't feel I was inappropriate. Let's back up a minute to what caused the situation. My dog was bringing a flock of 60+ sheep through a paddock to a gate where I was standing to sort sheep. This dog was at a level of training where she knew perfectly well what "lie down" meant. Not only did she not lie down, as about half the flock was through the gate, she cut out in front of them causing the lead sheep to spin back around into the rest of the group with me in the middle of all this getting knocked down and trampled. This is not only a very dangerous situation for myself (I know of someone else in a similar situation that broke her leg), but also to the sheep to be pushed and turned in a gate opening like this. My fiirst reaction was to jump up and go at her and yell lie down and smack the stick. Like I said, my aim was bad. I felt bad at the time but I wasn't about to apologize for it right then and there. We proceeded into lie down drills and then reset up the situation and then i put her up. Later on, I got her out and loved on her, but no way in Hades was I going to do it at the moment it happened. I can honestly say, that particular dog never did that again. I think she would have done it again had it not been for that one correction. She wasn't crushed for life with this correction in this situation. On the other hand, if this was how I trained her all the time for any minor fault she certainly would have been ruined. She was able to handle this correction because it was right for the incident. If she didn't really know what lie down meant, it would have been a whole different thing. Then it would have been shame on me for asking too big a job of her. Please understand, I'm not advocating hitting your dog. I could have been just as effective with hitting the ground in front of her --which was my actual intent. The real trick if to be able to let the anger go and resume working productively --also getting angry in only emergency situations like what I tried to describe. Hope this makes sense. Renee

Like Denise I didn't get my camera out much this year. My photos are not as clear as I would like. Mark Denise Wall's Mick "Yes, he can fly" "Amazing shed" Bruce Fogt & Chloe "Comin at you" "Working on the first cut" "Who will go next?" Renee Billadeau & Bette "Hoverdog" "Look Bette"

Thanks again guys for all the nice compliments. I really do feel like I won the lottery getting her as a pup! She really is a sweetie! Renee

Thanks guys! It still doesn't seem real! Bette sure was tired after her run, but she had a blast and was all "recharged" quickly. I was thrilled she took her look back since she's only done that at home. It took a little while, but she got it. It was a whole lot of fun and I am so thankful to all those who work to make the trial possible! Thanks, Renee and Bette

All I know is USBCHA trialing, but we do have one arena trial in our area. One thing to keep in mind is that some dogs are really uncomfortable in a small space because of the pressure. I would be sure to at least practice up close work before going and focusing on making sure the dog seems mentally relaxed in a tight space. Renee

Robin, Bette approves! She would have been happier with more nips though! Renee

It's really hard to know what's going on without seeing it. People mean a lot of different things when talking about eye. Is this dog just starting out in a small area? My current youngster BJ would go to the pressure and just lie down when I started her using puppy sheep. She had simply figured out that the sheep were just going to follow me so why should she leave the pressure spot? She doesn't get sticky at all anymore --but she definitely reads pressure. I started working her with large groups of weaned lambs because she would really have to think and react to keep them to me. As she got more confidence, she stopped lying down altogether even with more dog broke sheep. Renee

Don't do it! These dogs are very addicting and once you start down the road of getting another it doesn't end. Mark

We have Katahdins; no hair sheep crosses. Mark

Black vultures will kill live (weak) animals, turkey vultures will not. Mark

We live along a ridge and the vultures gather in our area this time of year for the air currents. At night they roost in pine trees adjacent to our property; we can hear their wings beating against the branches when they land in the trees. They are probably nesting in our area too, we just don't see the nests. There are times when there are 50+ birds circling over our fields. Mark

The wool sheep are more apathetic about the vultures as compared to the katahdins; the mothers will run off the vultures. One day there was a hawk that was diving at the vultures to drive them off; it must be nesting nearby. Mark

Lambing time is here and the vultures (20-50 at a time) know it. Clean-up duty is okay with me but stalking lambs, heeling mothers, pecking the rears of pregnant ewes, standing on wool sheep checking in the fleece & pulling on fleece is way over the line. The Katahdins have been lambing; 3 sets of twins and 3 singles (mostly from 1st timers). The last set of twins was exceptional: 10 & 12 lbs. For comparison I weighed a single that was a few days old: 11lbs. The Romneyxs are not lambing yet. Mark

That's just what I did (pinned her to a wall). Still easier said than done. As it turns out, the ewe I was worried about ending up having milk after all. She just bagged up at the last minute which isn't what she normally does. That was quite a relief! Renee

That's for sure! I just milked some colostrum from a ewe this morning. I felt like I was in a rodeo show. Renee

Thanks. I tend to be cautious myself. I just asked because I have a 19 month old that seems pretty sure of herself. I think it's more than just young dog enthusiasm. I use her a lot for routine sorting type chores. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to give her the extra time though. Thanks again, Renee

***sigh*** BJ's film crew is really busy with work right now! Glad you're liking him! Renee

Looks good Robin, but then I already knew that! Renee