Pipedream Farm

The 2015 Pipedream Farm Sheepdog Trial will be Sept 18-20 (Fri-Sun)

 

Fri & Sat will each have one open class

Sun will have one class each of Ranch, ProNovice, and Novice Novice

If we have enough Nursery dogs there will be 2 Nursery classes (days tbd).

 

Our Judge this year will be Werner Reitboeck from Ontario

 

Peggy Simpson and Todd Layfield will again be hosting a handlers' dinner (wonderful home cooked food) at their home (15-20min for the trial field)

 

Camping is allowed, no hook-ups

If you have a "big rig" (large 5th wheel, large class A) call for additional parking information

 

The entry form for this year is attached

Mark

2015 Pipedream Farm SDT Entry.pdf

To use one of your arguments.....

Those studies are much older than the one I posted and the more recent study includes many more dogs (A total of 1,264,422 dogs from 74 breeds) making it more statistically significant.

 

Mark

So what is the gold method for determining if a dog has HD? Is it the score given by one of the many methods discussed or is it the function of the hip?

 

 

 

 

 

Comparison of three radiographic methods for diagnosis of hip dysplasia in eight-month-old dogs

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.2460/javma.2001.219.1242

 

Objective—To compare the accuracy of the extended- hip radiographic (EHR) score, the distraction index (DI), and the dorsolateral subluxation (DLS) score for identifying hip dysplasia in dogs at 8 months of age.

 

Design—Cohort study

 

Animals—129 Labrador Retrievers, Greyhounds, and Labrador Retriever-Greyhound crossbreds.

 

Procedure—Radiography was performed when dogs were 8 months of age. Dogs were euthanatized at 8 to 36 months of age; hip dysplasia was diagnosed at the time of necropsy on the basis of results of a gross examination of the articular cartilage of the hip joints for signs of osteoarthritis.

 

Results—The EHR score, DI, and DLS score at 8 months of age were all significantly correlated with degree of cartilage degeneration at necropsy. Sensitivity and specificity of using EHR score at 8 months of age to diagnose hip dysplasia (scores > 3 were considered abnormal) were 38 and 96%, respectively; sensitivity and specificity of using DI (values > 0.7 were considered abnormal) were 50 and 89%; and sensitivity and specificity of using DLS score (scores ≤ 55% were considered abnormal) were 83 and 84%.

 

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Results suggested that specificities of the 3 methods for diagnosing hip dysplasia in dogs at 8 months of age were similar. However, the DLS score had higher sensitivity, indicating that there were fewer false-negative results. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2001;219:1242–1246)

Liz please be kind enough to support your statements with links to the studies so that everyone can take a critical review of the studies.

Mark

 

Everyone might find the results of a search on google scholar:

 

accuracy of distraction index dysplasia

 

There were several studies which compared the predictive abilities of many CHD test methods used on young dogs and most found that not one method was significantly better than another. I did read one that suggested the best method to predict the results for when the dog is older is the same method that will be used when the dog is older. In other words, PennHip pin a young dog does the best job at predicting the PennHip score when it is older.

 

Finally, how good will any of these methods be at predicting CHD when CHD has such a large environmental factor in the development of CHD?

The way you stated it reads as if preliminary hip exams are only 20% accurate. Think about how future readers will take your statements.

 

Mark Billadeau

However, I wouldn't make any long term judgements based just on that one view since 80% of dysplastic dogs have normal looking hips if they are checked before 2 years of age.

Not quite what the OFA says about preliminary hip exams.

 

Mark Billadeau

This was taken by Christine Koval during the lunch break on Open day 1 from the parking field.

We were fortunate to have some of the best weather of the year for the Pipedream Farm Sheepdog Trial: no rain, cool temperatures and clear skies. This was our second year with the trial field running up the hill behind the house. Our farm flock of about 150 hair sheep was run twice each day with each handler getting two ewes and two lambs. The Open outrun was about 250 yards over challenging terrain up over a small ridge which runs across the top of the field. The fetch brought the sheep over a steep drop of about 10 down onto a bowl shaped field. For the first day of Open there was a lefthand drive and a long cross drive just below the ridge followed by a split and then pen. For day 2 of Open there was a short righthand drive followed by a long cross drive across the field and up over the ridge. The changing terrain of this cross drive proved challenging as it did last year and was followed by a split and then the pen. The sheep were honest. If the dogs or handlers were slow to cover on the hills, the sheep took advantage; if teams were correct, they were reasonable. The sheep were set just above the ridge for Ranch with a course similar to the first day of Open. For Pro-Novice and Novice- Novice the sheep were set below the ridge and were tolerant of tight outruns bit still needed to be covered on the hills.

We would like to thank our judges, Christine Koval and Sue Asten. Christine judged Open and Ranch while Sue judged Pro-Novice and Novice-Novice. Christine sorted out the teams expertly. Sue provided plenty of positive comments for the novice handlers which were greatly appreciated.

We are also grateful to the dogs of Pipedream farm for their tireless work setting out as well as doubling as clean up crew when the runs did not go well. At the end of the day, they were tired from a hard days work the dream of any good dog. We couldnt have done it without them. Tally would like to apologize for trying to play with one of the dogs after it lifted the sheep. While it didnt interfere with the run, it was unprofessional. She promises to do better next year so shell get a longer shift setting out.

As with any trial, it could not run smoothly without the generous help from volunteers. We are truly blessed to have handlers willing to do all sorts of jobs from scribing to exhaust/clean up (thank you Linda Tesdahl and Carla King) to the sheep pen (thank you to Todd Layfield, Scott Leichliter and his boys, Doug Brewer, and Maggie Chambers). Also a big thank you to Peggy Simpson and Joanne Murphy for taking care of the scoreboard. We also cannot forget to thank Emily Falk and Lynn and David Roberts for coming up before the trial to help with mowing and hoof trimming. Also a big thank you to Sue Rayburn for puppy sitting during the trial (Grant and Lee are grateful to you!).

The Handlers dinner was provided by Todd Layfield and Peggy Simpson at their lovely historic home. As with previous dinners, this years dinner featured a large spread of foods prepared by Peggy featuring shepherds pie with lamb from Pipedream Farm and vegetarian lasagne.

New this year was a High Points Combined award for the top Open dog running in the Pipedream Farm Sheepdog Trial and Long Shot Farm Sheepdog Trial. The award was a crook graciously donated by Stuart Ballantyne of Craigmalloch Crooks.

 

Open Friday ( 58 dogs)

1. Doug Brewer Ben 92

2. Victoria Wilcox Pat 91

3. Michael Polites Taff 90

4. Mark Billadeau Peg 88

5. Emily Falk Gabe 87

6. Tom Wilson Kate 84

7. Nancy Obernier Nell 81

8. Mark Billadeau Nell 80

9. Victoria Wilcox Moss 78

10. Tom Wilson Meg 76

 

Open Saturday (54 dogs)

1. Charlie Hurt Josey 90

2. Tom Wilson Kate 90

3. Barbara Levinson Ryn 87

4. Mark Billadeau Peg 83

5. Linda Tesdahl Gus 80

6. Linda Tesdahl Juno 79

7. Carla King Floss 78

8. Tom Wilson Meg 77

9. Nancy Obernier Nell 77

10. Victoria Wilcox Pat 76

 

Open Combined

1. Tom Wilson Kate 174

2. Mark Billadeau Peg 171

3. Victoria Wilcox Pat 167

4. Charlie Hurt Josey 162

5. Nancy Obernier Nell 158

6. Tom Wilson Meg 153

7. Michael Polites Taff 153

8. Mark Billadeau Nell 152

9. Emily Falk Gabe 149

10. Linda Tesdahl Gus 149

 

Ranch (26 dogs)

1. Barbara Levinson Bill 81

2. Maggie Chambers Mose 81

3. Doug Brewer Ben I 74

4. Mary Brighoff Cap 73

5. Doug Brewer Fly 69

6. Renee Billadeau Tally 67

7. Liza Williams Sue 65

8. Jim Murphy Jim 63

9. Barbara Levinson Bob 58

10. Tom Conn Kate 57

 

Pro Novice (19 dogs)

1. Morgan Dawkins Jack 64

2. Emily Falk Lena 62

3. Christine Koval Lou 62

4. Nancy Obernier Liz 58

5. Lynn Roberts Spain 51

6. Mary Brighoff Dewy 50

7. Sandy LeFever Nym 41

8. Don Desrosiers Panda 40

9. Debbie Nosse Glen 32

 

Novice Novice (5 dogs)

1. Lisa Rufft Hobbes 52

2. Peggy Simpson Boone 51

I read it thanks.

Mark

Your questions.

 

1. No. This policy makes a good statement on how the organization stands on breeding for the show ring. The loss of genetic diversity to the breed and the possible loss of working genes to the gene pool is negligible by not allowing the very small numbers of CH dogs that would be trained and could meet the ROM process.

 

2. Undecided. Due to the potential negative impacts it would have on the genetic diversity in our gene pool.

 

One should note that accepting a ban on dual registration would eliminate the opportunity for CH dogs and their offspring to get registered by ROM.

You implied that ABCA papers provided more than a simple record of breeding, more than some perceived value. You have asked others to support their statements with additional supporting information and have received it. I have asked and asked and asked for you to do the same for your statement to no avail. Do what you expect of others, support your statements.

 

The registration papers offer no value beyond a breeding record. The value, in terms of potential working ability, comes from the breeder. This value does not require ABCA registration. It just so happens that a large number of working breeders use the ABCA for record keeping. The organization is run by people who are for the breeding of working dogs and works towards maintaining and improving the working gene pool. Simply seeking out ABCA registered dogs is not going to get you a working bred dog because it is not a performance registry.

 

Mark Billadeau

But AKC pups sell for more money than most ABCA pups providing more earning potential.

The added value (beyond the recorded pedigree) associated with papers from one non performance registry vs another is merely perception.

 

 

So where is this proof that there are all these owners of AKC Ch dogs that want ABCA registration with the real added value from them.

 

The real added value comes from the work of the ABCA organization, not from the papers.

 

Mark Billadeau

We live in MD and when we moved here we had katahdins, romneys, and border leicesters. The wool lambs were fun to work but the adults did not stand up to the stress of dog work. Our farm is loaded with cockleburs which ruined every fleece so we sold off our wool sheep. We prefer larger framed katahdins. We have had dorper crosses and found that while they grew faster they got to be heavy for working quickly. Katahdins do dog break quickly. Now that our we have our ewe flock to The numbers we want we will start looking at terminal sires to put more size in our lambs.

 

Our ewes are good mothers delivery and raising twins and triplets without any or very little help. Their feet seem to do well on this farm. We are selecting for tolerance or worm load, sheep that need to be dewormed more than once or twice a year are culled. They get some grain the last month of gestation and while nursing until the grass comes in, the rest of the time they are on grass or hay. Lambs get to 80Lbs+ in 10 months on grass which our market seems to like.

 

Mark

Peg

 

Gyp

 

Bette

 

B.J.

 

Nell

Source?

Reference?

Authors?

We continue to use the vet we had before moving to our current home. Our vet is now 45min away.

newcomers don't have to be treated dismissively, curtly, sharply or worse. I don't think unknowledgeable rookies should be given the cold shoulder, but welcomed and courteously mentored.

 

TEC

It depends upon if they come seeking to learn from the natives or to educate/proselytize the natives.

Mark

The problem with "ugly Americans" is they ruin the tour for the silent tourists.

Years ago I was sent to Germany by my employer for a conference in Bavaria. The two of us that went had one day to play tourist. While on a guided tour of a castle we had to endure the emarisment of an "ugly American" who was in our tour group. After the tour we apologized to the tour guide for the behavior of our fellow American.

 

Tourists should be afforded a we'll guided tour, "ugly Americans" should expect to be treated, well, ugly.

 

Mark

Reading about the early use of chi rho is quite interesting in light of the histerics around the use of X in place of Christ.

 

Mark

To have the breeding goals of breeding a "pet border collie" is to have the goal to produce dogs with the appearance of Border Collies but without the substance of Border Collies. This is not a new set of breeding goals; show breeders, flyball breeders, agility breeders, etc are already breeding dogs with the appearance of Border Collies without breeding for the substance. They are effectively producing different breeds.

 

Breeding for some of the genes but not all in a highly developed breed/type is not without risks. Take for example pit bulls. Most of the individual pups produced these days are no longer produced under the breeding goals used to develop this breed. Those who are not careful in their selection process for crosses are producing unstable dogs that are more difficult to control than days of old when these dogs were viewed as nanny dogs.

 

Mark

Here they are turning the post

 

working on the shed

 

and the pen

 

BTW it was raining

 

This was the third year of the Pipedream Farm Sheepdog trials and this year we changed the trial field. Our farm is not flat and we took advantage of the main hill on the farm. The Open outrun was about 225 yards with a 160ft elevation gain from the post to where two ewes and two lambs were set. The fetch included a 10 steep slope off a small ridge that runs across the face of the hill. The drive was short but we offered a long cross-drive up the hill and across the ridge. The drive was followed by a split, pen, and then a single. Our farm flock of Kathahdins was mostly consistent throughout the day with a few groups becoming difficult due to weather conditions.

 

Fridays weather was beautiful and because we had the time we decided to offer a double lift final, just for fun, to the top 5 handlers from that day. Each team gathered two groups of four sheep, drove the course, split off 4 sheep and penned them. The ridge was challenging but the teams did a great job walking the sheep down the ridge on the fetch and driving them up on the cross-drive.

 

Saturday started off pleasant but as a cold front approached the wind picked up midday and eventually we had light rain. Fortunately the heavy rain held off until after the end of the class. Due to the rain we chose not to offer a double lift final.

 

By Sunday morning the rain had passed and we again had beautiful weather for Ranch, ProNovice, and NoviceNovice. For Ranch the sheep were set below the ridge in the middle of a nice bowl shaped field. The drive was the same as Open and the cross-drive was along the same line as open but below the ridge. The courses for ProNovice and NoviceNovice were in the same bowl shaped field as Ranch. Two ewes and two lambs were set for the novice classes and most groups were willing to stop when the dogs stopped. Most groups had to be put into the pen.

 

Renee and I wanted to host a trial with a relaxed atmosphere that feels like a bunch of friends gathering to work their dogs. Home baked muffins, fruit, coffee and water was available each day in our bank barn which served as our hospitality area. We hope everyone enjoy their weekend, we did.

 

As in past years we had a long list of volunteers for helping during the trial; Renee and I appreciate all the help and would like to thank all the volunteers. Todd Layfield helped us get our farm cleaned up and ready for the trial. He also worked the set-out pen all weekend, quietly moving sheep into the cutes and out onto the field. Sue Rayburn drove down from West Virginia simply to help with anything during the trial. Jim and Joanne Murphy jumped in to help with posting and ranking scores, making sure the judges and handlers tents was set and secure, and offering to judging the double lift. Finally, Renee and I really appreciated everyones help (especially Jim, Joanne, and Pam) tearing down the trial field after everything was over.

 

In addition to the great job Pam Gardner did judging all the runs, a special award was given to the most promising young handler. Morgan Dawkins was awarded this prize for his sock sense and handling style. Congratulations Morgan!

 

Sept. 20

Open

1. Linda Tesdahl Suede 98

2. Linda Tesdahl Juno 94

3. Renee Billadeau B.J. 92

4. Linda Tesdahl Krew 91

5. Carla King Floss 89

6. Charlie Hurt Deacon 88

7. Victoria Wilcox Pat 86

8. Mark Billadeau Peg 85

9. Tom Wilson Roy 81

10. Sylvia King Dexter. 79

11. Karen Karkow Jade 74

 

Sept. 21

Open

1. Mark Billadeau Nell 102

2. Mark Billadeau Peg 100

3. Renee Billadeau Bette 94

4. Karen Karkow Jade 94

5. Chris Bowen Bella 91

6. Charlie Hurt Deacon 89

7. Charlie Hurt Josey 88

8. Linda Tesdahl Juno 87

9. Carla King Floss 86

10. Chris Bowen Sam 84

 

Sept. 22

Ranch

1. Barb Klein Wes 79

2. Dee Penatzer Queen 75

3. Jim Murphy Hemp 75

4. Dee Penatzer Floss 75

5. Doug Brewer Fly 72

6. Mark Billadeau Eve 71

7. Renee Billadeau Tally 70

8. Charlie Hurt Shep 70

9. Morgan Dawkins Gilly 69

10. Doug Brewer Kate 68

11. Nancy Liptak Rusty 63

12. Liza Williams Sue 62

 

Pro novice

1. Kathy Thompson Grace 74

2. Amanda Winecoff Chet 59

3. Peter Hall Bill 58

4. Peter Hall Meg 56

5. Robert McNaney Jillie 53

6. Sylvia Broderick Brody 51

 

Novice novice

1. Don Desrosiers Panda 55

2. Jean Ponstingle Daisy 42

We were awakened this morning to our second set of litter sisters (out of three sets we've raised) rough housing with each other. We could hear them chasing each other and wrestling. They are 7 years old.

 

Our sets from our litters

Rae (open) & Gyp (flunkie)

B.J. (open) & Nell (open)

Tally (ranch) & Eve (ranch)

 

It takes effort to raise littermates, we give each pup one-on-one time with us (especially our own pup) and some time for them to play together. We watch carefully for when the pups will not listen to us or focus on what they should be doing when they are together and will separate them when this occurs.

 

We breed for ourselves so we both want pups from each litter.

 

Mark Billadeau

 

First, you can't know the gene you're after with today's technology, you'd need some serious (read: federal) investment to even begin to look at the actual genes (probably several interacting sequences of genes) that have anything to do with the behavior you're interested in.

 

Federal dollars may not be needed to start looking for genes associated with certain behaviors that are part of herding instincts. We have the SNP data for 200+ dogs from another genome wide association study. We can collect the phenotypes of these dogs for anything and look at the SNP data for comosomal regions that are associated with these phenotypes, for example strong eye. The key will be developing the right characterization for the phenotypes of interest.

 

Mark Billadeau