bcnewe2

My gelding llama is great with his sheep. He knows the dif. between a dog that we work sheep with compared to a stray or one intent on doing harm to his flock. The problem I had with putting him in with sheep when he was intact was that he was very amorous with the ewes. He almost squished a young ewe trying to breed her. I had to roll him off her and she looked like she had been run over by a truck. She was OK, but after that I kept them apart till I had him fixed. We just put in a new ram (new to the llama too) so I didn't let him in with his flock till about a week. Now things are smooth sailing for both. My llama has never spit on anything but another llama, except once I had a rescue/foster dog I was working (one of the first red bc's I've had on my sheep) and Al (the llama) didn't like this particular dog so spit on him. He will watch all new dogs work for the first few times then decide if they are a threat or not and act accordingly. I do not let other people work with the llama in the same field, but I work my sheep all the time with him in with the sheep. He either lets the sheep hide under him, in that case the dogs have to work under and around him and he doesn?t' mind a bit. Or he goes over any lays down to watch the action. I have an 8 month puppy right now that is just starting to experience sheep, she is fascinated with the llama and will try to work him too. He will take so much from her then he runs her off. I don't work her with the sheep when Al is around but she finds him out in the barn when we're doing chores. I can tell he knows the difference between a serious threat and just a disobedient puppy. I love my llama and can hear coyotes close but have yet to have any problems with any critters. The loose neighborhood dogs are my biggest problem and haven't had a problem with them for the past few years. They seem to cross the street to the other side when walking down the road infront of our place.

Kim Do you have any problems with having an intact male in with your sheep? I know you can't do that with a llama, or at least I couldn't. Thanks Kristen ps. love the hair cuts! Since I have hair sheep I don't own any shearing devise, so I use a sissors to trim my llama. I was a beautician in a former life so he always gets a stylish do.

The last post was 7-26 It's now 8-08 I was wondering when someone would drag this back up....but was quite suprised that it was the accused. Are you baiting people to talk about you? When do we get to hear your side? If you got nothing more to say...please don't!

Words cannot express what my heart feels for you. Please know you and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. She gave them her all and then some. That'll do Kipppy....you done good. Kristen

We defiantly agree on keeping Gracee on a leash until these issues are worked out. If that doesn?t happen then maybe the leash will be the "fix". Yes Laurie you are right that other dog breeds display these same tendencies. Given that Gracee is a BC I tend to go with the herding instinct rather than prey drive. I have a bc pup that I'm starting on sheep. It looks like prey drive working in her brain right now too. Charging the sheep and scattering them. With guidance and help from me she will learn what to do with that drive. I happen to know my pup?s background so I know it's her learning curve on controlling or using her herding instincts. Basically they are in part, the same thing, Instinct. Without seeing the dog actually doing the behavior we can surmise or guess all we want. What Annie needs is direction to help control the behavior. Very hard to say or teach over the internet. A leash is a great start. Keep working on it Annie and see if you can find someone in your area with more experience than you and ask them for help. A stock dog person would in my mind be better help than an ob. trainer or a behaviorist. Some ob people and behaviorists don't know what to do with instincts that are that strong. edited to add: Uh-O, I didn't mean to "dis" obedience trainers or behaviorists. Some know as much or more that stock dog trainers. Especially those with herding dogs themselves. Some don't. No insult to Laurie intended. Either way, good luck and keep us posted. Laurie, it's always nice to have a discussion without getting into who's right and who's wrong. You put different words to basically the same thing. It?s amazing to me how many times in training my working dogs that someone or lots of someones will tell me something and then one day someone says it a bit different and bing?my light bulb comes on. Thanks for your quick responses. Kristen

Laurie, What do you call "control/stop the activity" that she was uncomfortable with if you don't call it herding instinct, however inappropriate herding children might be? That is an instinct "reaction" to me. Not many dogs that are happily adjusted to most of life as annieg722 has said, will run after something that makes them scarred or uncomfortable unless it is right in their face, except a herding type dog. As in fight or flight. Children running away are not in her face or scary. They need to be controlled in an untrained BC?s mind. Yes I agree that a 6 year old might be a bit harder than a younger pup to change a behavior. How do you know she has never been in that situation before or that it's an ingrained habit, unless it's instinct? You still have to deal with the issue. I'm not much for hiding the dog away from children unless this is a childless house and children are not going to be in the dog?s life ever. To me it would means lots of supervision and training to help her ?learn? what?s right. To teach Gracee to control her instincts. It takes consistency and time. Annieg722, Has she ever been around running children and not shown this behavior with you? What does she do if you go running away from her? Or someone else she knows. Oh well, call it what you want. You still have to figure out what to do about it. Sincerely, Kristen

Sounds like it might be misplaced herding instinct to me. I would also suggest posting this in the general area, as you'd get better response. When you say nipped do you mean bite or nip? Where did the nip occur? On the back of the child?s leg or butt? It's probably the movement of the child that sets her off. I'd set up the situation and correct her for "working" the children. i.e. a pop on her training collar and a gruff growl from you (or maybe a "no" if that's what you use) at the same time she tries to run after the child. Good luck Kristen

Ironhorse I am so glad you stayed and kept reading. The dogs thank you and we thank you. It's amazing the path these dogs haven caused us all to take. I am sure you will do as you need to. I'm not sure where Stockton is. As you know I live in MO so if there is anything I can do please let me know. I have some rescue org. contacts. I will find the closest one to you and get the #. Would that be KC? Kiss Thunderbolt, pray for the rest and keep doing what you have to do. Sincerely Kristen

Hey Miz I think you did the right thing given the circumstances. Being bitten in the name of a lesson is still being bitten. I'd rather not! I do think he was challenging you. For whatever reasons. I was also thinking about my little alpha B Raven. She does some resource guarding with her food. I allow her to protect it while she is eating, as they all have their place to eat and we have our routines. But, I did remember being confused one day, as she was trying to guard me and my bed from the other dogs. I was lying there loving on her and all of a sudden she was growling. I was totally confused till I realized another dog was trying to come into the room and that is what she was growling at. By looking at her, she seemed to be looking right at me. She was. I figure she wasn't looking at the intruding dog as to not give it something to challenge her back. She is not allowed to guard anything else. But that was way back when. One other thing....Same dog was on the bed getting lovies again. I somehow was lying on top of her and made her nervous. She growled a warning and I got mad at her growling at me. So I towered over her and continued getting in her face. I came away with a small cut under my eye. At that point I was so shocked I literally threw her from the bed. Haven't had an incident since then but I would never keep challenging her in that way again. I can hardly blame her. She warned me, she was nervous, she is like a rescue (I bought her from a farmer who had kept her in a kennel till she was 10 months old with no socialization), Yes, I was right in claiming my bed and my space, but I would never be that stupid and keep my face in the way again. If you have the resources, I would love to see Boy go to the doggy chiropractor. Another rescue was having difficulties and my own chiropractor found his neck was way out of alignment. He was a different dog after adjustments. Good luck and keep reading and working, you'll figure out what to do. I think you've thought this one to death. Chalk it off to learning, yours and Boys, and move on. Kristen

Hey Miz Just a few thoughts... Pack orders change. Boy and Fynn are rescues. Their lives have been turned upside down on lots of occasions. They have to figure the new situations out each time they enter one. That takes time. Not weeks, but months, sometimes years. Every time I bring a dog into my house, things change. Sometimes it's not a new dog but internal pack order changes and seems to turn upside down again. Then straighten out. But will be different from before. Boy maybe just getting used to his new surroundings and trying to gain position. Fynn sounds like second in command to me. Boy sounds like he's in charge. However nicely, but defiantly in charge. You have "loved" Boy so much you might have been sending the wrong messages. Letting love get in the way of discipline. I know all about that...It happens here all the time. Wanting Boy and Fynn to be perfect buds may take years. I know my mentors would be asking me....What I want to change and why. When Boy looks at you is he deciding who's in charge? Then you get nervous and could be sending the wrong message? Thinking about the vet trip, you are/were worried, Boy picks up on that and worries with you. I'm not considering the actual medical issues that might, or might not be going on, just the head stuff. Take a step back from the situation, try not to worry about the psychological stuff, rule out or rule in the medical stuff. Then start a new day. I have two adult daughters. There were times when they got along perfectly, and then there were years...and I mean YEARS...where they hated each others guts. Point being...things are always changing in a family. Be it Human or Dog! I'm thinking about you and how you?re feeling. Sending positive thoughts your way. Why don't you take a break from the dogs today or tomorrow, go shopping, or swimming, do something without the dogs. I know they are your life, but you all could use a break. You'll be happier to see them, less stressed, and so will they. Remember absence makes the heart grow fonder. Or at least clears the mind from the present. Hope you have a relaxing day. Kristen

I gave my opinion in the general area.

Yikes These are the type of people that take time to change their thought patterns. They are strong, willful and believe in what they think they know. They are not bad people (at least I can?t tell by this thread) They can turn into wonderful stewards of the breed if educated kindly or carefully. Berating them or using the fighting techniques that I see here do nothing but make them dig in their heals harder. Most on this board were "uneducated" in the correct BC way when they came to the boards. Some had less baggage than others. Some took much longer to be swayed. Please try to start over and educate with kindness, it goes much quicker. I appreciate all the rescuers and send out a huge Thank you to all. I do my share of rescuing and I don't breed. But at one time I think I might have thought about it. If I hadn't learned any different, had I been chased away from here. I might not have learned anything. As it turns out, I?ve changed my thoughts about a million times on the BC. Changing each time I learn a new piece of inf. I'm not afraid to say my lessons have come at a large expense. I am not the same person as I was when I "bought" my first bc from a BYB. Please...Live and learn....Live and Teach...but quit bickering. You get no where except for a big bump from ramming your heads into the brick wall! Thanks to all who rescue, and thanks to all who take the time to learn about this wonderful breed. Please...Ironhorse, and Shewster, stop reading this thread and stay awhile longer, you will learn allot and I for one will not pick on you or hold this inappropriate thread against anyone, including you both. Ironhorse, I live in MO too. There are lots of great BC people in MO and lots of bad breeders too. Aren't we known as the puppymiller state? I don't think the people running the puppymills would call themselves that. They don't know it or don't care. Stay awhile and learn. It isn't always this hard! Sincerely Kristen Reker Cedar Hill, MO

Prosperia,Absolutely NOT. Just a ramble from my brain. Guess I was referring to the comment of the original poster I combined the two thoughts and guess I sounded confusing. If you changed the "chasing sheep" part to "chasing boys" you'd have my children when they were growing up! I think you are doing a fine job of training your fur baby. Sorry if I offended you. Kristen

I think it goes back to never letting them get away with it from the start. Easier to say than to do. My rules around here are: When in the yard or somewhere they have their freedom I have different requests or commands. A "command" is something that can NEVER be ignored. Sometimes I know I can't/won't enforce them (like when I'm in my undies and can't run out to effect a change) So... I "ask" when it's an option...that is I might not go and get them if they don't listen. They know this. I "command" only when I have the power to make it happen. They all know the difference and will respond in kind. They didn't start with knowing, but I NEVER "command" when I can't or won't enforce. It is sometimes a big pain in the butt so it's on those times I use a different "voice" and a different word(s) like: in a singsong voice I sing...."wanna come in for a treat?" or "let's go" if they blow me off I don't get to worried. but if I say "Here" or "Come" I use the right tone of voice and always enforce what I've said. Even the young pups quickly learn when it's not an option. It might sound more complicated but it leaves me the room that I need when I know I won't be enforcing the rules. I also notice that I don?t really trust any of my dogs(pups)recall till I put them to sheep. Then it's the bond and the communication that is established there that makes them "want" to listen. If I didn't put them on sheep, I don't know how long it would take me to trust them. Probably well over a year old. I do the same with my children. I ask if they will clean their room today. They can say NO with out consequence. They know when I'm not asking but telling them. Why...cause there's a consequence that's going to happen when they don't do what they are told and no consequence when I ask. The ground work is laid at a very young age. I have friends who don't ever ask only command....that's OK for them but I know I'm not that good at follow through so my way works for me. At 6 months old my pup(s) loves to test me. My latest has not gotten the rules down pat yet. It's my job to teach her the difference. I don't get mad...I get the job done. Good luck and leave a long line on the pup to drag...that way you can always "make" the right thing happen. The key is training yourself to do the right thing. The dogs are much easier to train than myself. If you don't have time...don't get the dog or be suprised when they misbehave. Same with children! Thank God for small things like not being albe to turn your kid into the pound. I bet there would be lots more children there than dogs. That's a sad thought.... Cheers Kristen

Kathy Knox Clinic in Belle, MO Don Russell of BelleHill Stockdog Training Center is proud to announce we will be hosting a 2 day Kathy Knox clinic at the Training Center in Belle, Missouri Saturday & Sunday December 10 & 11, 2005 Kathy Knox is a nationally known Stockdog trainer. Winning and placing in the USBCHA national finals herding championship several times. One of the finest stockdog trainers in America! All levels are welcome. The cost of the clinic is $150.00 for both days. We will take 1 day reservations if we have openings. Spectator spots are available for $25 per day. Lite breakfast food and lunch will be available both days. Reservations will be taken on a first come first serve basis. A $50 deposit per dog and a signed registration form are needed to reserve your space(s). The balance will be due November 1, 2005. The clinic fee will be non-refundable after that date, unless we have a person ready to take your spot on our waiting list. For more information, please contact: Kristen Reker 636-274-3066 bcnewe2@hotmail.com or Don Russell 314-640-3057 don7493@earthlink.net

Due to a last minute cancellation I have one opening for this clinic. Cheers Kristen ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Bruce Fogt Clinic in Belle, MO Don Russell of BelleHill Stockdog Training Center is proud to announce we will be hosting a 2 day Bruce Fogt clinic at the Training Center in Belle, Missouri Saturday and Sunday, April 16 & 17 2005 Bruce Fogt is a nationally-known Stockdog trainer, 2-time winner of the USBCHA national finals herding championship, and author of the acclaimed training book, "Lessons From a Stockdog". One of the finest trainers in America! All levels are welcome. The cost of the clinic is $150.00 for both days. We will take 1 day reservations if we have openings. Spectator spots are available for $25 per day. Lite breakfast food and lunch will be available both days. Reservations will be taken on a first come first serve basis. A $50 deposit per dog and a signed registration form are needed to reserve your space(s). The balance will be due March 16, 2005. The clinic fee will be non-refundable after the March 16, 2005 date unless we have a person ready to take your spot on our waiting list. For more information, please contact: Kristen Reker 636-274-3066 bcnewe2@hotmail.com or Don Russell 314-640-3057 don7493@earthlink.net

Thanks Pippin I PM'd you last night. Those are great ideas for care packages. Glad to get the tip about the magazines. I sent one that she has a sub. to, I bet I won't be able to send that one to Iraq. What is considered to risqu? other than Cosmo. That is the type she likes to read. Again, thanks for all the suggestions. It should take me a while to get through them. Kristen

Pippin My daughter is at Ft. Stewart GA right now getting ready to go to Iraq. She will be in Kuwait by May 14. When I think about it I get all weepy but mostly I just pretend she is still away at college. That's my way of keeping her safe in my mind. I can only imagine how you must feel knowing it is your husband. On the day of deployment seeing all those young wives and babies really tore my heart apart. We have her BC right now, he will be staying with us till she gets back. He has a few issues and when we get aggravated at him he ends up making us smile because we think of her! He sleeps downstairs by the door waiting for her to come home. Occasionally we give him something of hers so he can remember the smell he misses so much. On a few occasions I have put her perfume on his neck so when I hug him it smells like her. Doesn't always help....smelling her and not being able to hug her is not always comforting. It is the hardest thing I've ever had to go though. My daughter is doing good and says she is very glad to be helping in this horrible situation. She will be coming home next month for 10 days before actually deploying. I recently went GA and spent 3 days with her. It was heaven! She is 23 and seemed so much more mature than before she left. I pray for her and all the rest day and night. I will add your husband to my prayers. Thanks for all the prayers and support. Kristen Reker Cedar Hill, MO

I have dealt with 2 fear aggressive dogs and they have successfully been desensitized. Took lots of situations and patients. Most of all it took control on my part. I have been wrestling with some ideas in training my newest pup to work sheep. Let me throw some inf. I have learned out there and you can see how it might relate: When I first started Mick on sheep he was about a year old. He is quite a keen dog and no fear in him what-so-ever, I got mad at him while training and gave him a correction that was full of anger and confusion on my part. How did he react? He went right in to the sheep and tore the hide off a lamb. At the time I didn't know why but the next day after thinking about it all night I realized he had matched my emotions right to a T. He did not know why I was mad but he figured he needed to mirror my feelings exactly...what it got me....a hide-less leg on a lamb! (lamb was OK) next incident: Mick is a overly friendly big pup. He gets the wiggle butt thing going when he sees anyone new. I had him at a hotel (been there for 3 days) and we were walking down the hallway when 3 people came walking down the same hallway. At a distance Mick was doing the wiggle butt thing but as they approached one of the strangers was a young child. She got scarred of Mick and let out a small cry and her dad picked her up. How did Mick react? He got scarred too and let out a very quiet low growl. Nothing happened but I realized just how responsive he is to emotions that are around him. Same thing happened with my young niece. She got scarred of Mick so he got scarred of her. What's it mean and why'd I tell you? Because I think it is one of the most important things you need to be aware of when working with your fearful dog, especially on lead. Your emotions have a direct line right down the lead to your dog. If you get nervous or scarred he will not have positive emotions to draw on in bad situations. I have found that a positive response to his emotions (no fear added from me) will let him 'feel' the proper way to respond. I also use a correction for his improper actions. Not his feelings, but his actions. A correction might be a pop on his lead (not a continuous pull) then give him something to do that he is already successful in doing. A halti might work but if your nervous while correcting or tugging on the lead he will have a direct line of fear being added to his already bad emotions. It's not an easy idea to get a hold of but one that will hurry your training along...good or bad! Which ever one you send him in your emotions. Good luck and I would look for someone close to your area to help you work through these issues. It's easier when you have someone confident around you to help. (just like you helping your dog) Good luck and keep working on it Kristen Reker Cedar Hill, MO

Just a quick comparison: (ok so not so quick) I have working bred BC's and a few of the other's (byb, not necessarily ACK) It's the poorly bred dogs that have issues. My good friend has 2 ACK bred Aussie (sorry Aussie folks) type bc's. When these dogs come over to hang with the real dogs, it is them who can't sit down or have herding quirks that can't be fixed. One runs around in a circle ALL the time. Poor fella, and he's got his championship ACK thing. The other has no hip sockets, (his parents were winning ACK dogs) he never seems to relax. Even when tired he lays there panting waiting to get to the non existent sheep in his brain. Can he work sheep...if that's what you want to call it, but he has no hips so really he can't. She paid $1000.00 for each of them. Point?....Guess it's really draining to keep trying to convince the non working breed people why they should not keep supporting the wrong dog. It's not personal....but if they could only experience the right dog it would sure be easier! I have tried to understand the other point of view as in "live and let live"....I've gotten to the point of feeling like Soloriver....beating my head into a brick wall, unending and damn fine headache after the battles. It's when they start bad mouthing working dogs as being hyper or "bad", that I get my feathers ruffled. My best working dog went on a non sheep trip with me last week. We both had a wonderful time but couldn?t wait to get home to sheep. My friends laugh at him because they say he?s so lazy?how lazy is he??? Well, he slept for 8.5 hours with 2 potty breaks while in the car?got up and sniffed the air for half hour then back to sleep till I pulled in the driveway. The minute he saw sheep he was up and raring to go? no sheep?means sleep to him! So there goes that hyper working dog thing! BTW My dogs will either be or are spayed or neutered after a few years on the trail field...unless they show me they can better the working breed. The rescues were altered right after coming here or came that way. Someone said earlier not to judge to soon.... Can we please say the same....till you experience a real BC....can you please keep your mouth and your dogs legs shut??? If you care to educate yourself, please do so and feel free to come over to our side of the fence. The grass is defiantly greener over here! All dogs deserve to be loved, I love my children too...doesn't mean I want to breed them! At least not till they prove themselves out on the trail field! (just kidding bout the kids...guess I can't fix them...just educate them!) Cheers to all the people who continue to fight the fight and raspberries to all who can't or won't get the true meaning of a BC! Happy St. Pat's day Kristen

How bout this.... Mick is only 14 months old and we have not started shedding yet. We were putting sheep in the barn, they were in a big group and we were gate sorting the hoggetts from the older ewes with lambs. When we finished the chore I noticed one of the younger sheep in the wrong place. Mick already knew there was a problem and was holding this yearling in a corner waiting for me to figure it out. I opened the gate and without any mess Mick pushed the young-un back through the gate and put her with the right group. He does all the chores with me and one is feeding the chickens. I have a broody hen who I made a deal with that I would deliver a handful of food for her if she wouldn't peck at me when I come in close. I think Mick made that deal because if she acts pecky he rears up on his hind legs (this hen is setting in a raised box) and bops her on the head. Yesterday the chicks hatched and they were out on the ground. Mick ran in the chicken coop and laid down at the new babies and continued watching them till I came in to relieve him. The hen is a rescue fighting hen so is mean. She was quietly sitting infront of Mick waiting to protect her chicks....we both breathed easier when Mick jumped up and ran out the door. He's never seen baby chicks before! I can only dream of the jobs Bill speak of. Glad Mick doesn?t know where Bill lives?he?d probably pack his bags for a bigger paycheck! Gotta love um! Happy Friday everyone Kristen

I have been using Frontline for as long as I can remember. I have some dogs who hate it being put on and some don't even notice it. Recently I found a way to put it on that everyone seems to be ok with. Even the cats. I take an empty syringe and draw up all the frontline into it with the needle, then remove the needle and use the syringe w/o the needle to apply it to their backs. Something with breaking the little applicator open and the scratchy feeling it gives during application seems to upset some dogs. With the needleless syringe they don't seem to notice. I also get the syringe ready without them in the room The cats are better with this method too. Good luck Kristen

Northof49,I was not aware of NASDA ever doing that. I didn't get into BC's till the nineties. I've had several dogs registered with them. I'm pleasantly surprised to hear that they ever did that and hope they can figure out a way to do it again. How was the certification done? I?ve heard that they have been disorganized in the past few years and are in the reorganizing stage right now. I wonder if registering dogs with them would be better as they are not as big of a threat to AKC so are not on the AKC chopping block. If they reinstated some kind of certification program, it might help keep the working dogs strong and separate. BTW Presently I have 1 NASDS- purchased from one of the old officers of the NASDA 3 ABCA- purchased from reputable open dog handlers/occasional breeders 2 AIBC- Rescue and BYB, bought before I knew better. The rescue is her littermate bro who came to us after 7 other homes at 18 months) Question for all? If you could register your dogs where you wanted, where would you prefer to have them registered? I'm not fishing for crap about the AKC but opinions on the rest of the registries Stay Warm Kristen

Now that my numbers are up over 7, I am building kennels. Some will be inside/outside dogs and some will be inside only dogs.... the working dogs seem to like to stay outside mostly. Even in the cold they are waiting at the door for the dog door to be opened. They usually sleep right outside the dog door in case I start to feed without them (they hear the closet and come running). I have a dog coming who has been an outside dog for his 2 years of life. He is why the kennels got started but I plan on making him both an inside/outside dog. Husband laughs and says the kennels are for us not the dogs! Until I was over 4 dogs I didn't mind them in the house, now it's a bit much. I also have a daughter that recently moved out so as quickly as I can I'm turning the spare bedroom into a dog room with crates and such. Will she get the hint? my cats are in/outside cats but with the dog door they all come and go as they please. can't wait till my kennels are done! Happy holidays Kristen

When I read that post I questioned the wording also. But after reading and thinking about it I decided that my Raven has been in treatment for all her 5 years of life. She was never socialized as a pup (lived in a farmers kennel till 10 months) then lived in my closet unless we were working sheep for 10 or so more months(her choice not mine). I will never trust her around anything, be it humans or dogs. But, I do trust her training and the above posts made me realize that I have been "managing" her condition the whole time I've had her. It is second nature to her and I now. Not hard, and not time consuming. I didn't realize what comes naturally to me may be considered "treatment" to "normal" dog owners, but that is what it is. I don't baby my girl, I have strict rules for her and I to follow and I make sure both are parts are taken care of. If I see children or adults racing up to pet the pretty puppy I step up and stop them. "she bites" will do the trick everytime. In the last few years of owning her she has really made some progress in her "treatment", she will seek attention from strangers, she will tolerate kids petting her (even if her eyes look like they are going to pop out her head) but I would never let these things happen without my strict attention. the more I expect of her the more she gives. Guess my answer is: These things can be managed and the dog can be spared. It isn't hard if your a dog nut like those on this list. Go anywhere you like for help, just get it. I love my Raven and don't give a rats butt if we can't be one of those lovey dovey dogs to strangers. We live a very happy life, thank you very much! Funny thing is I now have an overly friendly BC who has not met a stranger or animal(dog,cat or any other small animal, other than sheep;) that he doesn't love. I always wanted a dog like that. Now I find myself asking people to pet my poor puppy (who is big and so friendly he sort of scares them)so he won't think they don't like him. Damn....thought I had it licked! Now I find I like the shyer ones better!;)Who wants all those people around your dog anyways? Live and let live...hard to do on this list Good luck Chris, You have a good start! Kristen