G_Davis

Would anyone be able to point me toward resources for finding practice, work, and/or training on sheep for myself and my dog, in the Ulster/Greene/Dutchess County areas in New York? This might roughly translate to the cities of Kingston/Albany/Poughkeepsie. If you know the area better than I do, which is very possible, please include anyplace within 100 miles of Kingston, NY. My dog is coming back into shape after injuries and associated weight gain, which set her back for a very LONG time, and it would mean alot to both of us to be able to get back out together again. Thank you. Glenn Davis earthbag49@yahoo.com

For what it's worth, here's the way it was explained to me when I lived in the Seattle area, and it's not a matter of whether heartworm is in the area or "moving that way" -- but a matter of whether or not it can threaten your dog. I was told that in order to infect a dog, the heartworm must go through a developmental stage within the mosquito, and it can only do that if the temperature NEVER drops below 67 degrees for 2 weeks straight; and since that is never the case west of the Cascades, heartworm was not something I needed to worry about in that area. I would of course want to know if this information is not accurate, as I'm sure everyone would. But I think this is also why many don't worry as much about heartworm during winter.

Like Rebecca, I wouldn't presume to be able to add to what others here have so capably said, I can only 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) some of it, and share parts of my own initial experiences. My dog didn't last 30 seconds in the small round pen her first time on stock, and it wasn't because she was afraid, although that's how it looked. We had to start in a larger area and it was quite awhile before she learned to control her "output" enough to go back into small areas. I also found that even if I didn't want to teach most commands away from stock, I was able to get a good "down" or "stop", and an uncompromising "recall", within a week or two away from stock, and it made all subsequent lessons and practice much more productive, without diminishing her enthusiasm at all. If you are physically sound and able to move well, try to learn about your own positioning and movement. I would also say, don't completely discount your instinct for what's going on, why your dog does this or that. I am not saying you should put less weight on what your trainer says, I am only saying your feel should be considered in the mix. And, give it time. But that's just me.

Can I ask, what kind of herding lessons are you interested in, or rather -- do you have any particular stockdog/herding philosophies that you gravitate towards, or ones you wish to avoid? I am in Arizona, near Scottsdale, and I know of a few people who do herding of one kind or another, give lessons, offer sheep time, or both. The nearest would be Queen Creek if they're still open to that sort of thing. More likely you would have to go to Chino Valley or Mayer. Each situation is different, you would have to make the contact and inquire, then try it and decide if it works for you and your dog(s). The best training (in my opinion) would be in Sonoita, but I have no idea if she's open to training beginners, and never got a response from her to my inquiries. I know she's busy and works hard with her own dogs. Being here has been very bad for my herding hopes. I don't seem to be able to get responses from anyone, maybe they're all too busy. Maybe. Or maybe I say things in my inquiries that make them want to avoid me. The long heat makes it difficult also. The best trainer/handlers in the state focus most of their time working and running their own dogs I think. At least one had an intern that gave the beginner & intermediate lessons, wouldn't get involved until you became more advanced. Don't know if that's still the case. I've had an idea for quite awhile, suggested by many others in many different places, but I've not found anyone to propose it to until now. I'm sure you've noticed some decent large fenced fields around the area, like up along east Bell Rd., several places around NE Phx. & Scottsdale -- even down along about 12th St. & Missouri and those places that used to be citrus orchards down in there. Most of them are horse properties or large acreages that have somehow managed to stay large amidst all the subdividing. If anyone is interested in exploring the possibility of going in together and renting a field or fields, procuring some stock to care for and work with, I would love to hear from you. Now would be good with cooler weather coming in a month or so. I'd love to hear from you anyway, just to know there's someone else nearby that's interested in herding is encouraging. Feel free to email me. I've been here 2 years and been to stock only twice -- mainly just to remind my dog of who she is. Hope to hear from you all.

I can only respond with my own experiences with two of my dogs -- one of them caused while playing frisbee -- but both of them got their foot folded back against the leg when coming down. Toe pads touching leg, with their weight & the force of coming down behind it. With both of them it was MONTHS before the injury completely healed and they showed no more signs -- 3 to 6 months I'd say. Like you, I have had more than my share of injury to my own body, and I know that often a broken bone heals much faster than soft tissue damage.

All very interesting about the TV or not TV. Most dogs I have had can have their attention drawn to the television initially by some sounds, then seem to see it as they watch for a bit then go closer to investigate. But when no smell confirms anything they ignore it and never bother with it again. It's just a bothersome noisebox.

Great stuff!! I love seeing photos too. I wanted to add a few, but couldn't seem to make it work. Brain cramp. Go here if you'd like to view a couple: http://webspace4me.net/~grd49/ First 3 photos from 14th time on stock, next 2 from 6th time on stock. Special thanks to Diane Pagel, Chris Soderstram, Lorri Ruddick and everyone in WA who gave us a chance to learn. Couldn't resist adding the last 2 just for the puppy-to-young adult view. Kinda the same look. Thank you Denise for expanding on your comments about prey drive, etc. When I see the dogs work, or see photos like yours and others, what strikes me is the additions and refinements (and I feel such gratitude to the shapers!!). Certainly the prey drive was the initial tool used, but so many "limbs and branches" have been added and refined. And pruned. Thanks to everyone for their photos & comments.

I think Charlie's questions are GREAT, and I look forward to hearing the answers. I would like to add one -- what is your eventual goal or use for your dog? Trialing? Cattle ranch? Goats? The answer to this might affect how you deal with it along the way. I'm guessing that as your dog gains confidence, and you become more & more a part of the field equation, the problem will take care of itself.

I probably shouldn't, but I always respond to "stick" threads. I didn't read everything on the why-sticks-are-bad site, but I am certain they can be very dangerous in many ways. One thing I worry about is little pieces of wood being inhaled while the stick is carried by a dog that's breathing heavily. Having said that, I will say that I have always played "stick" with my dog(s). I find tool handles made of hardwood that doesn't flake or crumble or splinter easily, and cut them into 8" or 9" lengths. I NEVER use forest sticks with bark on them, or any soft wood. I never let my concentration or timing lapse -- I want the stick AT REST before the dog reaches it. Catching it out of the air is not an option for the dog. I typically throw 50 to 70 yards, even longer with a good following breeze, a little shorter into the wind. I realize many won't believe that, but that's okay -- the people that watch don't believe it either. The uniform, thin stick cuts through the air well. And I could always throw. Having said all that, I will say that stick play is dangerous and not for everyone. But I worry ALOT more about the ground squirrel and gopher holes than I do about the stick.

Hello all. If anyone out there can help me find or create opportunities to work my dog in Arizona, please do. Response by email is okay too if this is not a proper forum topic. I am in the greater Phoenix area, but travelling is possible too. It's very discouraging to not be able to continue working with my dog, it was the only thing that made all the other crap worth it -- just about the only thing I looked forward to. Thank you.

It depends on your needs and personal preferences to some extent, but I think socialization is important. Life can be much easier down the line with a well-socialized dog.

I'm wondering if anyone can share how they have treated sprains in their dogs, specifically ankle in this case (or wrist??). Thanks.

I know how you feel. My dog Maggie gave me a heckuva scare once. I'd stopped in the mountains to let the dogs run in the snow and do their business, got back in the van and continued down the winding road, when Maggie looked like she was going to puke -- so I stopped again to get her out, and she looked real wobbly, then her eyes kind of rolled back in her head, and she just fell over flat, and didn't move. Didn't even breathe. I swear I thought she was dead. So I lifted her back in the car and drove the mountain curves like a maniac to get her down to a town big enough to have a vet. By that time she'd come out of the coma-like state, but still wasn't good when I got her into the vet's office. He too thought seizure at first. When he was in another room getting something, I noticed a small bump on her nose, and the snout around it was beginning to swell a bit. So when I showed the vet, he then treated with antihistamine injection & said to follow up with Benadryl. Could have been anything from a scorpion to a hornet to a tarantula I guess -- who knows? Don't think it was a rattler. What a scare though! Another time Maggie's lips swelled up to the size of large donuts, another time her whole face got puffed out. Now her nickname is Lumpy. She's always liked to eat bugs.

All of the boards I frequent are Border Collie boards, and I'm not on any lists. What I need is a good recommendation or two for places I can pose a question about one of my other dogs. My Maggie dog has developed an attitude I need help with overcoming. Thanks.

I think this subject is a little tricky, because like others have said, it depends on the reason for not downing immediately upon command. And there are many different philosophies of handling, different goals, or different ways of reaching the goals. What I mean is this -- one of the reasons I've seen a dog not down precisely when told all the time is that it knows it's not in the right position, and it will do the down as soon as it gets there. Sometimes the dog is correct, and the handler is incorrect. So this is the tricky part for me, more difficult than anticipating and giving a command early to get the down where you want it. How do you remain open to the possibility that the dog may be correct, and make use of it's ablility in a team effort, and at the same time accomplish instant & unquestioning taking of commands? And this brings in the differing philosophies of training & handling. Some people want absolute control and more mechanical, others have a looser style. Some people are in a bigger hurry than others to get their dogs to a certain level -- sometimes out of necessity. I don't think either method is in itself necessarily right or wrong -- just different. I'm certainly not saying that dogs don't cheat and need to be corrected, and I'm not saying they don't form bad habits, or have trouble stopping sometimes. I'm just mentioning another reason I've seen for those "extra steps". For me, it is important to gain a thorough understanding of balance and all the various factors that can affect balance -- which by definition includes understanding off balance and the things that influence it -- before deciding whether I'm correct or my dog is correct. Does this make any sense? I very much desire my dog's input and contribution, thinking for itself, independent of what I may be thinking. And walking that fine line between looseness and mechanical is a trick of balance in itself. I guess I just believe that things involving training & commands are things you can usually get back if you lose them, but the things that come from instinct & natural ability -- the things that can't be taught -- are not easily regained if squelched. So I probably err way to the side of looseness until I'm more confident in my own ability.