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Cholla1

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Everything posted by Cholla1

  1. ---"What will happen when the AKC closes its stud books ... Hmmm... Jodi"--- If the ABCA wants to contest the AKC Border Collie name for the breed, as the Jack Russel people did as was mentioned in one post above, maybe it should do so before the books close? One other point on working border collies not being sound, as some misguided soul mentioned: I just had my working border collie dog spayed and hips x-rayed at the same time and the vet keep saying how they were some of the nicest and most functional he had seen in long time. My dog comes from old working lines and several generations of high point cattle herding dogs, bred for their working ability. It is not very logical to say, as that poster did, that working dogs have poor conformation for their task and work being handicapped by it. Not very probable, the work is too hard. Only the ones properly built for it and that doesn't mean that they all have to look the same, as there are different looks that are functional, have the ability to work for hours on end and days and years.
  2. Clorox is used and works very well on fungi, like rigworm. Are you sure the one that told you didn't speak about using it in that context? Never heard about using it on mites. Lost one doberman to generalized juvenile demodicosis many years ago, before Mitaban dips. The parents were imported dogs from Europe that came with an engineer that had been hired by a US firm. The mother was in whelp during transit so stress probably was a big factor. Seven puppies in the litter, five had it, two died from it, after several months of skin infections that didn't go away. Today such is very rare, as there are many new protocols to control demodex mites, I think some involving ivomectins, that work well, without the stress of the dips, until the immune system has a chance to get it under control, if possible. AK Dog Doc already mentioned that it is something that can be kept an eye on, as it tends to go away on it's own in the localized form and if it spreads, it is always time then to treat. No hurry about it on a grown dog, all lost is a little hair. Worrysome on a puppy, until demonstrated it is not going to be a problem. (Sorry, was not going to butt in here anymore, but...had snow and have nothing better to do right now, was reading and this begged another answer).
  3. ---"P.S. -- Oh, and when I asked Cholla what she was doing here, I didn't mean she should leave. I just don't understand why she is surprised that being all rah-rah about the AKC isn't received well considering this is a board sponsored by, and mostly populated by, people who are opposed to the AKC. That's all. Personally, I wouldn't go hang out on a vegetarian board and post about how great I think meat is."--- Oh, and when I commented on being you who pointed that out, I didn't mean that I was surprised about the comment, only that it was you who made it. Somehow I thought that you were the same person of a year or two ago, that seemed to understand where I was coming from, debating issues on their merit, not because they were AKC or not and yes, some were AKC and I think that I know about them enough to have made some comments to clarify the issues. Live and learn. BTW, it did read to me like you meant that I should leave, even if you deny meaning it. I guess that leaving the floor to the vegetarians is not such a bad idea after all.
  4. Zip is five months old today and doesn't tear toys, at least not yet. She chooses one toy herself at Pets Mart when we go there. She is particular on what she wants, is interesed in some but when the right one comes along, she really jumps for joy at it and carries it all the way to the counter, easy to do since she has been small enough to ride in the cart until this last time. The toy chosen this last time was one of those softer bigger balls with uneven surfaces and a squeaker. It has been a winner for all, soft for her to grab and for anything it hits. She is good about walking on leash except when another dog or person are in sight, then she whines and carries on trying to get to them. Riding in the cart helped. We are working on that "going goofy" about people now, but as far as problems, it is not as bad as being scared. A happy medium would be nice.
  5. ---"...this legislation won't deter breeding abuse at the hands of those who seek to profit from the misery of our beloved friends and companions."--- I know one way that the oversupply and puppy mill breeders would be hampered. Get all the possible money those humane associations get, millions a year in donations and start a catchy, nationally in scope well thought out compaign to SHAME those that breed many dogs, those that breed indiscriminately, those that buy from them and showcase the terrible killing that goes on in shelters. Not wanting to shock you, but to go to help in a shelter and to have to start matching "lost dog" cards to the dogs in there past 10AM, or you have to walk over dead dogs and cats all over if any earlier, is hard on the toughest soul. Dogs you petted the day before... Not even talking about what those shelter employees feel, that have to "do the deed" on so many every day, day after day... I can't believe that our society is letting such happen and think that if it was more common knowledge, how such is reflecting so poorly on our species, it would go a long way to be corrected. I honestly don't think that most people are aware of that and they contribute by, without thought, buying dogs when they don't really want one, just the idea of owning one seemed good at that time. Those people will then have second thoughts about if and where to buy, be properly informed consumers and so we won't have that revolving door of so many dogs that later are abandoned when clueless people realize that they really didn't want to live with a dog. People that breed will have to be very sure that they have excellent reasons to do so and the general public, consumers, will not keep considering dogs an accessory to their lives, as so many do today. How many times do I hear "we moved to a house with a yard, so now we could have a dog but don't have time (barks/digs/etc.) for it, so here it is, you find it a good home". Not that all don't love their dogs, they do, but not enough to get them to fit in their lives. More forethought would be a big help in curbing the demand and especially the demand that buys the puppy mill and backyard breeders dogs and so dry up their "business". Yes, the AKC should be a big part of that, as they are a big part of dogdom.
  6. ---"It's focus, inevitably, is on supporting and maintaining its bloated bureaucracy."--- Just a comment, not trying to get off thread, but that sentence could reflect our government, along with so many other organizations, small and large, I think. Part of the beast.
  7. Yes, you clarify much with your post. AS far as the AKC only being interesed in their members, AKC registered dogs, what is wrong with that? The ABCA is not interesed in any AKC or other dogs, only ABCA. That is the mandate of any association, not only dog ones, to take care of their own. The AKC has been battling puppy mills for long and, as I already mentioned, puppy mills now have their own registries. To use that allegation of AKC interest in puppy mills as money makers is not valid any more. As far as the bill and the amendments, I don't know enough and was waiting for Eileen, that said she knew about it, to chime in, as she promised, when she got back. When I posted about it I clearly indicated that it was all I could find in short notice and didn't know how much of the total picture it was.
  8. Thanks for your clarifying post. I am hard to understand and know it. Something about the way I say things, partly because English is not a language I learned in shool but later in life when I came here and had to, partly because I live fairly isolated so don't have much practice with discourse and forget people can't read my mind and leave much out. I am allergic to dogs so have had very few at once, the last years only one at the time. I have never bred or intend to but helped breeders raise litters and know that someone has to be the good breeders that keep the different breeds alive and useful for the indended purpose, like border collies for herding, so I am not agains breeding in itself. I am also talking about the oversupply that is getting so many dogs out there that don't possibly can find homes. As you say, all of us are partly to blame, not just the AKC, even if they are a big contributor. To clarify further, I was speaking about the AKC numbers not being a true measure, in the posts where that was mentioned, in a strictly statistical manner. With, according to the 2002 humane association figures, 3 million dogs are euthanized in shelters every year, the one million the AKC registers is not that many. Somewhere else there are another two million dogs coming from, plus many AKC dogs I assume are really getting into homes, not that many, even if one is too many, end up in shelters. There is so much to condemn the AKC for, but when we are not using good sense blaming it is when I didn't agree and posted about it. Some seem to have taken offense to the comments I made about trialers, just as I seemed to when I defended some of the anti-AKC comments I didn't agree where correct. Why am I reading and posting here? Because this used to be a very active herding site when I lost my dog and now, with a new puppy, I thought that I could refresh and learn again so much. As far as any "barbs against the herding community", I am speaking of what is going on here, not throwing barbs. Ignoring the truth won't help dogs.
  9. ---"I agree with Julie, Cholla. It also makes me wonder why you're here. I'm not trying to say that the working dog world does not need to clean house -- I think it does. But I'm totally puzzled by your heartfelt defense of the AKC. If you're really that interested in talking about how wonderful the AKC is, I'm afraid you're in the wrong place."--- "My heartfelt defense of the AKC" according to you, I guess and several here, it seems. Not in my mind. I was trying to show that there is more to the AKC than conformation, a true statement, even if you don't welcome it. I have been posting because I thought that I could contribute something and learn, since I do use my dogs on stock and have for over 30 years. You are right, there are not hardly any one here that does make a living off stock. Wrong place for that, it seems. It used to be, long ago... The attitude is that the AKC is indefensible, let's have a party calling all it does wrong, with many misconceptions about what they are thrown in, but don't touch the herding people even if they are doing some of the same things that anyone would consider objectionable. I like fairness in any debate but my Adams quote explains why that is hard to find on this matter here. I was expecting someone or several to question why I was here, but didn't expect such from Melanie. That she deigned to be judge and jury about my presence here surprised me. I know that I don't write well and am hard to understand sometimes but I thought that it was clear that I agree on principle that the AKC does much wrong, especially on the matter at hand, the showing of border collies in conformation. I guess that, according to Melanie at least, unless someone is not a dyed in the wool AKC hater, they are not welcome here. I wonder then why have an obedience and agility part on these boards? How do those feel that do show in some AKC shows, as some indicate they do? Need posters hide that, to be able to be part of the discourse here? When you can't conduct the discussion the way you want, attacking the messeger is always a good way to try to go about it, to end the discussion.
  10. Try, not walking backwards but standing still until the dog will look at you and then praise and go on. After a few tries the dog will be looking at you before the leash tightens. Has worked with several border collies where that was a problem, if you are very, very consistent for a few days, as a new rule for walks.
  11. ---"With 915,668 registrations in 2003 at $15 per registration ($13,735,020) it dwarfs all other registries; that's almost 1 million new dogs a year. Mark"--- Any figures for other registries, like UKC or the one in Canada? How about non AKC (which many are now) puppy mill numbers? Figures on backyard breeders? Any others? We know that we are euthanizing, as far as we can count, over 3 million dogs a year in shelters. Hard to compare with only one number to go by. As John Adams said, more than two centuries ago: "Facts are stubborn things, and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence."
  12. You may want to take the time to read several of these articles, about the middle, on Loose Leash Walking. Some of it may work for you: http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/index.htm#behaviors A good start is to stand and wait for the dog to look at you while she is pulling and then let's go!. Do it even if it takes you only ten feet forward the first day and in a few days your dog will be getting to the end of the leash and looking back at you before pulling, if you are consistent thru the learning phase and never walk if the leash is very tight.
  13. You mentioned obedience class. What does your teacher recommend you do? Anyone mentioning a pinch collar? They are milder than choke collars but need to be used after they have been adjusted properly and you taught to keep the leash loose. They are called power steering for a reason. At this point, I would ask your teacher about it and give it a try. Keep training without distractions if you can, not when you are so close to something she wants so bad you lose her attention right away. Ask for only a few steps heeling at first, not too far so she has room to start pulling again. Any clicker or attention classes where you take her?
  14. The AKC is not without controversy and herding people are not either. They happen to be part of the problem, around here at least, by the breeding and selling that goes on in a market saturated with dogs that end at the shelter, plus other issues that come from handling stock dogs more like livestock. Do you know how so many people on ranches and trialers generally handle dogs? Some are my friends and I know it is their right to conduct their business as they see proper, even if I don't agree with some of it, just as I do with the AKC. The world is not black and white but shaded. If and when I point at herding people in a positive or negative matter, it is because it is part of what we are discussing. Do you really think that just by being against the AKC, owning border collies and using them on stock, people are without fault? By the way, do you realize that you are not contibuting to this but only picking on me?
  15. Several people in our dog club have gone to feeding a different brand every bag or two and say they are happy with the way their dogs look and work. They assume that if one food is not quite balanced for their dog, the next one will take up the slack. Doing that some also found that their dogs don't do as well with some ingredients, like one mentioned chicken. So she now feeds any but feeds with chicken.
  16. Had that problem with a doberman a few years ago that had beautiful coat but a little "dandruff" and adding Linatone, a commercial preparation that can be bought at any pet store and added to the food, solved the problem. Don't know why your dog has that problem. It could be a "walking dandruff" mite or something else, so if it get's worse and a change in food or supplements don't help, ask your vet. Your vet should be used to any problems that may be common in your area and have a solution for you.
  17. I am told that one way the AKC keeps check of the breeding going on is what tells them who may be a puppy mill type breeder, when they register from very young stock or very often from the same mother. They are going to require even more DNA for registration and eventuallly that will curb much of any overboard breeding any one may be tempted to do, at least with them. Let's remember that they are not the only registry around, only the one that most like to pick on. And yes, several herding trialers around here keep more than three intact animals around, some in training, etc. and seem to have litters regularly. They often exchange dogs between themselves, have a big turnover. Remember that most of those are not pets but kennel dogs and that most have never seen the inside of a house. They are taken out to exercise/train and back to their kennel. They only stay in one place as long as they are doing their part, be it training, breeding or the few good enough ones, trialing. That revolving door for dogs is common practice for many kennel dogs, be it herding, field, race or show dogs. When Eileen Stein comes back, she can tell us more about that bill. She seems to know more about it than I have heard. I didn't seem to be able to find what the bill's wording was, only some of the amendments.
  18. AKC (as the NRA does for arms and so many other lobbying associations do for their particular interests) fight anything that will curtail reasonable use of dogs, on principle. Those sentences you presented, if nothing else, leave the real culprit of so much of the dog oversupply, the backyard breeders, free to continue, if I am reading it right. For your information, many AKC people are not breeders and from those that are, they have only one or two dogs they show or put out with a handler, most times a female. The turnover rate of people interesed in conformation shows averages five years, not long enough to build a kennelful and their own bloodlines. Few are the kennels that can keep more than a very few dogs. On the other hand, herding trialers around here seem to keep dogs by the dozen. You would think that it would affect them if it passes as written so they would be objecting to it too, if they knew about it.
  19. I did a quick Google search and found much, all about like this: ---"VOTE NO ON HR 3484 because This bill is unfair it punishes the responsible hobby breeder and does nothing but give puppy mills irresponsible breeders and pet stores the the ability to avoid being prosecuted for a problem that is partially their fault the rest of the fault lies on the irresponsible pet owners not breeders. Hello, my name is Sonja and I am a hobby dog breeder of Australian Shepherds registered American Kennel Club, Australian Shepherd Club of America, and United Kennel Club. I am also involved in activities in all of the registries listed. I am 1 of the 2 rescue representatives for Aussie Rescue & Placement Helpline, Inc. in Oklahoma. I train my dogs at Tulsa Dog Training Club and K9 Manners. I teach at Tulsa Dog Training Club and I also teach some small classes of my own(PupEtiquette). I spend hundreds of if not thousands of dollars every year registering, showing, providing health care, feeding, and training my dogs (much to my husbands dismay) I have some dogs that I will breed and some that I will not and some that I cannot because they are already altered. I am very picky about where my puppies or rescue Aussie's go. One woman even said it was harder to adopt a dog from me than to adopt a child from the State of Oklahoma. Most puppies I sell or place and all rescues are on limited papers which means not for breeding purposes or already altered. I breed therefor I rescue, I rescue therefor I teach. I am a responsible breeder who will take back a puppy/dog any time during it's life for whatever reason. I only breed once per year if that and all of the hobby breeders I know are close to the same in their programs. I cannot afford to pay 100.00 per dog that is intact on the off chance I may breed them. And yes I feel I should have that right and not be gouged because I have a proven track record of being responsible. If this bill were to pass I would not be able to afford to participate in much of the activities like showing, obedience, agility, herding, and raising quality pups for other people like me. My quality of life and my dogs quality of life would decline. This law would force people to purchase their pets from pet stores which get their dogs from USDA kennels and puppy mills. Most of the problem dogs come from these places. The problems range from genetic, health and social behavior. When puppies are raised in cages with no humane interaction other than feeding and cleaning cages, they are not usually suitable as family pets. That is the beginning of the cycle of irresponsible pet owners. When I purchase a dog, I want to know the dog's pedigree, see the parents, and know the medical history. Try getting that from a pet store. They may have inspections and licensing, but their breeding programs are strictly for numbers and not quality. They do not care about the specific breeds and the genetic problems. Also, a female dog should only be bred once a year not twice a year. Dogs and Bitches should not be bred until they are over the age of two (2). Furthermore this bill would be punishing people like me instead deterring the people who are already violating similar laws and still selling puppies on the street corner every weekend. And these people will not stop because you put new laws in place. Nothing is being done about the laws already on the books. These people are reported but nothing happens. There are a few references to both sb 1130 and HR3484 they should both be defeated. Bixby , OK"--- Seems that it regulates in a way that is not good enough, that puppy mills and other less responsible breeders can still get away with their business as normal. Those are the ones that bills should target, not responsible dog people. The bill is still being amended, so no telling how it will end up. Some of the amendments are really silly, like requiring a vet to qualify any dog before breeding, etc. Who would that deter? Puppy mills have their own vets to sign papers without even having seen the dogs. They do that now for health papers.
  20. First, any dog that has a sudden change in temperament should be examined by a vet and at least a thyroid panel run. Also, your dog, at two years old, is not a puppy anymore but getting to be a serious adult and expecting to be treated like that and evidently demanding it. Are you sure that she knows her place in the pack and there have not been signs lately that she was asserting herself more and more? As many people find out, once their dog is grown, the dog may change and become a different dog than the happy-go-lucky one so many are as puppies. That is when all the previous work training a dog pays of, as the rules and limits have been established beforehand. Since your situation is serious and may get someone hurt if not handled carefully, to ask your vet for advice and maybe have a veterinary or trainer experienced with agression check the situation over, like it has been suggested, would seem the safest way to proceed. Hopefully it will be a simple case of a sore spot or such that can be resolved easily. Even so, she should not have been in a position to needing, having or wanting to defend herself like that.
  21. My understanding of puppy mills and the AKC is that the AKC has been tightening their qualifications and inspections so much with the aid of DNA testing that the puppy mills have started their own registry and so don't depend on the AKC any more for their "papers". They even sponsor (that they really run) "shows" so their dogs can be "champions". If I remember correctly, since it has been a few years now that this came to be, the puppy mills registries are National Kennel Club and Continental Kennel Club, a name that the Canadian Kennel Club resents mightily as those are their same letters and people are being misled often by that. The AKC had much to say about that bill that would restrict how people can own dogs. According to them, any person could file a complaint against the way you were keeping, raising and training, much less breeding your dogs, if it passes as written and you would have to defend yourself. They considered it another of the animal rights tries to impinge on all's rights to own and keep dogs/any animals and so were fighting it, like they are the laws about specific breeds of dogs, or needing extra insurance if not banning outright dogs over a certain weight and such. See what is happening in Germany for those questions of the government legalizing the owning of dogs to that extent. Some is good, if it curbs any abuses that happen but other is right down assaults on our rights to keep animals. About what the poster that defended today's no-kill shelters said, what was written is right, some of those shelters are now changing their position and relinquishing the clearly unadoptable dogs to the city shelters if not euthanizing them at their places. I wish more hurry up and do it so as to give more dogs a chance, but they evidently rather keep some alive as long as they will, no matter what. Sad situation. I wish it was easy to decide what is best... What I meant to say is that those dogs that may, may, with much work, turn around and overcome a bad start in life and maybe bad inherited temperament are taking such a huge part of the resources that would be better used to train and make adoptable several other dogs in that time. I do understand that it is a nice feeling to turn a difficult dog around and have done so myself, sometimes questioning if the process was going to work or was worth that time and effort, so I know where they are coming from and admit that anyone doing anything to help should be commended. I object to it when the needs are so great now and it is taking away from the relly sweet and adoptable dogs that don't get a chance at all. I too wish that there was a moratorium for ALL on breeding, but it is an impossibility, if such was implemented, even with a laws with big teeth, the good breeders would be the only ones hurt and the backyard breeders and oops! breedingds would continue, to the detriment of so many dogs bred without any care about their health and temperament.
  22. ---"If you want to jump on me for my disdain of the AKC and their contribution to dog overpopulation and the irrepairable harm they have done to many once proud breeds, be my guest. If I can get 1 person to get the death row or rescue dog and forgo the AKC as a source, I consider it an even trade."--- Gary, you don't like the AKC period. That is your right. I don't like "no kill" shelters, like the one you seem to be so proud of, period. I consider them illogical warehouses for dogs. That money could be better spent on trying to rehome adoptable dogs as soon as possible, as our city shelter here does. We get all those dogs you so decry that are euthanized after three days, that no-kill shelters many times turn down because they are full of dogs, many unadoptable, kept there forever. Our local no-kill shelter funnels away many of the resources and donations to kennel a few animals, some of questionable temperament that should never be adopted out, money that we could use to really help keep many dogs a few days longer and so increase our adoptions at the regular city shelter. Each one of us has our sopaboxes, yours is the AKC being wrong no matter what they do. Your right. To blame the oversupply of dogs and all is wrong with today's use and abuse of dogs on the AKC is a little lame. Backyard breeders and puppy mills are the ones that are mass-producing dogs today, some of them with their own registries. I admit that the AKC does much wrong but say plenty right also. We have to live with the blame that those working in the performance part, that is getting more and more important all the time, get for the AKC having been started and run all these years and still being run, by a minority of narrow minded conformation people. Many of those people don't like us performance folks, by the way, but we are weighing in more and more. I think that there is room for all in this world and that the AKC will come along and moderate their stand on conformation, so it will not be so absurd and will require some performance qualifications for titles. It has been slowly changing and will more, I assume, as the performance part is getting more and more important every day. Yes, I think they will still have border collies in conformation and that is the right of those people that want it so, as it is the right of the ABCA to keep them off the AKC registry on that premise (something I agree with also, even if it is giving us two different breeds). I wonder how many ABCA breeders will want to go along with that and lose the chance to sell to people just because they may go AKC with their dogs. Around here they seem to be more than glad to sell to AKC homes and ask much more money than they would another trialer and are getting it. Just because a core of ABCA people don't like the AKC, I wonder how most other people that train border collies and trial feel about this, if they even care. To each their own. As far as international requirements for showing in World Agility Shows under the FCI, I doubt that we should blame that on the AKC, if that was the intent of that poster.
  23. ---"What I meant was that the only qualification for a dog / handler to be a USDAA or NADAC member is that the dog is a dog, is over 18 months and is not aggresive to other dogs. As far as ability, I could take any of my dogs and train and compete in these group's events. We may never make it out of novice, but we can still go and have fun. Groups based on inclusion, not exclusion."--- That paragraph lacks logic when you mean to say that the AKC agility shows are not fun and you can't show forever at the lower levels if you don't qualify for the upper ones and that because they are AKC people don't have fun. The only requirement of AKC is that a dog be properly registered with them. They are first a registry, after all and that is how we have breeds today, not your "generic brown dog" all dogs would revert to if breeds had not been established. Even under those parameters, the AKC has opened performance events to many mixed, spayed dogs if they only resemble any one breed and may consider admitting for those shows, some day, any dog. There is talk of it now. The Canine Good Citizen program is open to all dogs now. Yes, even the AKC is changing with the times.
  24. I don't know anything about "AKC herding" but I can imagine what it is like. Have never heard that any one dog is not permitted to participate in international events, if they qualify, regardless of their breed or paper status. I don't know who determines what dogs can make the US team, how they are qualifying. Good question. Will ask around.
  25. When our club members, that some have MACH's on their dogs and qualify for the AKC finals, go to any other than AKC shows, USDAA too, they come back saying it was easier and bring home the blues to prove it. Some of those people you saw in the AKC finals are in the international team and do very well in the really tougher/higher european courses. It always looks easier when sitting down and watching it than running the course. Same with herding trials.
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