Sue Whiteman

I have a 10 month old bitch sired by my dog. She is learning to understand balance behind sheep and is doing well...and then suddenly takes off to the left for no apparent reason at all. Her pa did it too. I am not asking how to correct it...I sorted it out with my dog but I would like to know WHY they do it...are they seeing something I am not (probably!) or is is just stress behind the sheep building until she has to run out to try to head them? Or is it just a family trait? BTW it doesn't matter how far back behind the sheep she is...she still runs quite widely off to the left. TIA Cheers Sue

Tammy, Is there any way you can ask friends/family to help you pay for a simple X-ray of her hips...it costs about $25 ( 25 euros in France...roughly the same). I am afraid that HD is genetic and doesn't get better with age but these dogs do well with loving families who play/walk with them. I do know of an Open dog in France with severe HD...he is managed with vet care and patience. Sue

When I started out I was surprised at how early you can put your dog onto whistles. I was also surprised at how early you can start the separation (shed) with a young dog, by splitting the flock really wide and calling the dog through as in a game. This should be relatively easy if the dog does indeed have a good recall.It makes it easier later for the dog to feel comfortable about coming through. Is your dog driving? How about introducing a bit of that? However if he is crossing over AT ALL at 60 yards, don't lengthen the outrun until the current distance is easy for him and the stop at the top is always in perfect balance. If you can, change the field so the draws are different.Perhaps create draws for you and your dog to practise on. Ask a friend to hold the sheep so he gets used to someone else being there (if you want to go onto trialling). Don't be in too much of a hurry to move on...get the moves absolutely right now. And do have some fun with him...we often end our training with lots of runs around the sheep as I scatter them, leaving him to pick the direction and run like a release..;and it's great for doing pull-ins. Cheers Sue

Sam, As a sort of attempt to answer your question about breeding sheep/dogs as being different in nature, I guess the obvious answer is that sheep were always "for profit" even when man was living in straw houses were and considered a crop while dogs have been one of (if not THE) oldest domesticated animal all over the world.Dogs are useful...guardians, hunters, gatherers etc. However the Chinese have bred dogs as a crop for a long time and are now just enforcing laws which forbid it...not always successfully. And I understand that vegetarians have trouble with the anomoly too, so abstain from consuming animals bred as a crop. I can understand Bill's remarks about the problem of amateurs interfering with situations which seem superficially suspect. I was once told in public that I was cruel for transporting my dogs in vari-kennels in the back of a car!! I quietly asked them if they wear their seatbelts too... Sue

Bill and all, I actually mentioned this subject because I admit to being unsure what a PM is. I can spot the obvious. However is the definition dependent on quantity and quality or the conditions all the dogs are kept in? Is it a mirror of the attitude with which the breeder does business? If so, a breeder with 4 dogs kept poorly may be more of a PM than a breeder with 14 dogs who looks after them well. There are persons I know of around here who have dogs they have done moderately well with in trials, buy in bitches, never let them out, produce a litter and then sell the bitches on. The quality of the pups is all over the place but usually with some talent and it isn't until 18 months later that any less talented pups are found to be so. What hurts me is that the bitches bought in are virtual prisoners. The conditions aren't bad, however. Just OK.If he has too many at once he uses trailers and storerooms for them. He does this to supplement his income. Yet on the other side of the road we have someone with a really mediocre but well-cared for dog/bitch combo who produces a litter every year for some spending money. In the end the results are the same. However I would call the first one a PM and the second a BYB, I guess purely on numbers. I do admit to being fuzzy about this. My other Big Question is...what do you do if you suspect there is one in a neighbourhood near you? Sue

Well,I'm not sure I can spot a prostitute, especially if she is well-dressed and speaks with a proper accent, lives in a big house in the best part of town and is seen with all the right people. But she just may be a prostitute for all that. So what IS a puppy farm? Sue

Has anyone made the decision to take out insurance against treatment and/or surgery for their dogs? Why or why not and has it been valuable? Thanks...am thinking about it and would appreciate some input. Sue in France

A great letter, Mark. We should, I believe, keep preaching the word. On an allied note, I wonder how you all would define a puppy mill? We all have our personal picture of one and we all understand the general concept but I would be grateful if we could compare notes? Cheers Sue

Hi and a happy new year to all! I guess I wake up when I see the word Basque...the area is only an hour away from me and I sometimes trial with one or two Basque shepherds. They sometimes discuss this and ISTM that there are more than one opinion there including "all trialling is a waste of time...I have more important things to do". Actually they are probably right...they work very hard in some rough terrain at times. They do, however, get some of the best opportunities to use their dogs "properly" and if they have Border Collies (many still have the original Labrit terrier) they are usually used for easy gathering and moving. Relatively very few are used "fully" ie separating, holding,penning other than moving through gates and then not at any great distance. The shepherd is usually there to help guide the sheep through. This is not only because the shepherd really doesn't have time to learn how to train up his dog but that the flocks and fields are now smaller due to farming regulation and financial support. This is, however due to start to reverse a propos of cows which have been getting more support. But the future of sheepkeeping is still unclear. I have thought about Charles' question off and on and have come to a very non-static conclusion (cummon someone, give me a rational push to change my mind)that the number of hours actually needed by shepherds, who have become fewer in number anyway, is less and less. If we only bred and trained those dogs which will be used for "real work" we would have to sell a lot more as pets. And that WOULD be the start of a slippery slope for the Border Collie. We can encourage those who love the breed to learn more about them, keep a small flock for the optimal real work we can offer, seek out other real work and sell pups only to those who feel the same. But we can't all buy a farm, a flock of hundreds and give up our day jobs. I have heard more about trialling producing weaker dogs, rather than producing obedient ones or that trialling has become too rule bound, though France is pretty fluid when it comes to obeying any rules (big grin). I think what we do with rules is not the root of the concern. It is what we want as a Border Collie in the future. Do we want cow dogs? Strong sheep dogs? Easier sheep dogs? Sport dogs? Family dogs? All of the above? And does it not matter where we live? Those in the Western part of the USA will want something very different than I may do. In France and throughtout most of the EU (as it is as I write and that includes Great Britain)the keeping of sheep is a declining activity. Pasture doesn't pay and cereals are replacing grass. Therefore the Border Collie isn't required to be trained up to anything like trials standards UNLESS someone takes the time and has the passion to maximise their dog. I truly believe that this is the only way we will keep the dog fully occupied and moving forward. Towards what is the question. I can more easily tell you what I would NOT like to see in the dog in the future. However as history has shown, the Border Collie is infinitely flexible in its being useful. Perhaps teh future will see a small family of stronger dogs fit for working the few larger and more difficult jobs and others for sport. Those farmers who want to compete will have the edge, certainly. As is the case now. Very few if any hobby dogs ever trial to a national standard in GB. I think no hobby dog has ever gone into the final of the International. Sorry to go on...but it is a Big Subject.Just some off the cuff thoughts. Sue in France

Ok, I'm still puzzled about the look/go back. I have watched tapes, read books, gone out and tried to figure out how to do it. (we don't have personal trainers in France...) and I need your help, guys!! Derek S. trains his dogs to look back doing a turn EITHER direction from the path made by the sheep.He then downs the dog and gives it a flank command. At least that's what I saw on the video. He doesn't seem to make an issue of which way the dog looks back. However soon after, in the part about the advanced go-back, he flanks the dog to one side of the separated sheep first and insists the dog look outward from their path. This is what I want to do. My question is, if the dog has been taught to look back in either direction, how do you get him to look back to the OUTSIDE? Do you work from the sheep's heads, from the dog's side behind the sheep? And should I use this flank first/look to the outside in the initial stages of teaching a look-back to avoid confusion at the advanced go-back stage? HELP!! Cheers Sue

Ahhh..I thought the idea was too cute!! Seems a lot of bother for a few sheep. I only wanted a breeding to continue the supply of fresh sheep next year without interrupting training for a very keen debutante. Around us we have a few shepherds breeding three times a year with a breed called Tarasconnaise (Pyrenean mountain sheep but OK in the lowlands). They are kept indoors and of course rotated but obviously two thirds of them are breeding out of normal sync. Wonder how they do it? Thanks anyway and if anyone else can help I'd love to know more. Cheers Sue

Since this is where training is done/ discussed I am hoping someone can tell me how often Blackface sheep come into oestrus? I want to keep them unmated this winter to use them for training but perhaps put them to a ram this summer when it is too hot to train and I am off trialling anyway. And little Lucy will have had seven months of uninterrupted early education on them after which I can switch to the ewes that will aleady have lambed and been weaned. Ta in advance! Sue

Maybe this is some kind of record but after five years of my pet BC watching others going through their training he suddenly decided he wanted to do it too. So now I take him onto sheep about once a week and he loves it. However after five yerars of being a spoiled pet he just won't take commands properly so we just play. But he did definitely turn on somewhere in middle age!! (I know I know it's far too late for mostly everyone...just thought it was an interesting thing to happen.) Cheers Sue

Terry, I saw the situaation I described at a local trial in GB this summer...it was a private sort of local trial too, where some top people get together for some practice before Nationals. The course was tricky...the sheep were set out to one side of a hillock and a straight fetch was a real test especially as there was a tree on teh hillock as well! Then the second packet were set out but tended to drift off to the side. They weren't really spotted...I did carefully write "located" in my previous post. It wasn't really a qualifying trial as such but a morning doing things which were as difficult as possible. Training while trialling really...They were trying to get a second lift from a rather difficult angle so the lookback wasn't a 180?but more a 45?. In addition I have a 5 year old bitch which was trained to do a lookback but not to turn outwards...she will turn any whichway. Is it too late to change her habits? Or will I cause more confusion and lose what she has and have to live with losing a couple of points if I ever need the manoeuvre? Which may be never...she (and I) may never get to that level... Sue

Bill, I am still next to his shoulder when "doing" the lookback. He is still young but the manoeuvre seemed to go with the shed so I started to see if he could do it. I just don't want to start any bad habits and to get it right in the first place. I am happy to move over to whichever side I want him to turn to and encourage him out that way...if he spins I can see that this may result in his crossing his sheep on the second outrun. As for major trials, I have seen a trial where the second packet of sheep was located very near a fence and required the dog to go between the fence and the sheep to fetch them if he was to stay on the outside of them. It was tricky and certainly sorted out the dogs and the trainers!! Thanks for your help. Sue