HerePupPup

D'Elle and Hooper: Hmmm . . . I think you may have touched on something our trainer missed. I'm retired now so I have the time to be with her and I give her a LOT of attention. Perhaps I've spoiled her. It's quite likely that I've already started down the path to creating a monster. I hope it's not too late to undo the damage.

I had mentioned the biting to our trainer a couple months back but didn't tell her about the recent escalation, mostly because I was embarrassed and feeling like a doggy-mama failure. I should note that while some things are worse (my pup's reaction to her biting "time outs") other things are better (biting is much less frequent, she has longer periods of calm, she will lie on the bed with me while I take an afternoon nap). I am fortunate to attend training classes at a center owned and overseen by a woman who is a certified dog behavior consultant. This weekend, I again mentioned the biting issue. We had a good discussion about my pup's daily routine, her at-home training sessions, etc. Straight away, the trainer warned me that I have a lot of work ahead of me. Border Collies, while smart and "easily trainable," are more easily bored and need lots of mental and physical stimulation. This was not news to me but, to be honest, I was not as prepared for this pup as I thought -- especially now that I've recently been diagnosed with a balance disorder. It's not easy to do a lot of training with limited bending and head movement. Also, my girl just turned 8 months (not 7 as I originally posted). She is an adolescent. We have a full year and a half before her mental maturation catches up with her almost adult-size body, our trainer said. In addition to our three/four times-a-day Frisbee play, I need to play her to exhaustion three times a week. Unfortunately, she means Doggy Exhaustion, not doggy-mama exhaustion. I need to continue our previous training exercises (puppy push-ups, name recognition, stay and "zen" aka: leave it) many, many times a day. I need to make sure the zen practice includes a full 1-minute wait for each treat drop. Although she is completely house broken, I need to entice my girl to go in and out of her crate many times a day, not just when it's time for bed or a nap -- something I should have done a LOT more when she was a small puppy. Finally, our trainer suggested a transfer from basic dog training class to the tricks training class, which should give my pup an additional brain workout. If we continue to have problems, I will ask about private behavioral sessions. I know she offers them because I've seen them on the website. They are a lot more costly than our weekly group classes, though. Also, I still plan to pick up a copy of Control Unleashed Puppy Program and add some of those exercise to our training routine.

My pup is now 7 months old. She no longer has her sharp baby teeth, but she still bites HARD! She will grab my hand to get my attention when I'm on the phone. When she's excited and playful, she'll do a quick run-by nip at my hands or my clothes. She will jump on my son and nip at his sleeves. When I have treats, she will sometimes (not always) nip at my hands. The past month or so, I've been faithful about putting her in her kennel for a nap when she gets nippy. I would lead her with a treat. But then she started catching on and would not follow the treat or she would come up to get the treat and then, as soon as I remove her leash (which she wears indoors), she would take off running. When this happens she runs through the house, jumping on the couch or the bed like it's a chase game. I would sometimes be able to get her into a sit for a treat. As I'm feeding her, I'd hook her leash and lead her back to her kennel. But she's caught onto that trick and won't sit during this excited time, not even for a really tasty treat. When I'm on the computer, which is often, I keep her nearby by attaching her to a 15-foot leash that I've anchored to a piece of furniture. That way, she can wander a bit but not go far enough to get into trouble when I'm not looking. She has water, a play toy and a chew toy at all times in here. But she will sometimes demand my attention -- usually when I've answered the phone -- and will grab at my hand with her teeth. When that happens, I ask the caller to wait a minute while I switch to a short leash and lead her to her kennel. But things have once again escalated. Now, when she gets to biting on me, she knows what's coming. She will go ballistic and start biting me hard as I attempt to swap out the leashes. She will lunge and bite the inside of my upper arm, my hands, my wrist the entire walk to her kennel. It's gotten so bad that I now hold her collar, pick her up and carry her to the kennel. Once she's in my arms, she will either calm down or bite with less aggression and then go right into her opened kennel door without argument. But getting hold of her collar is a big problem. I grab hold and she bares her upper teeth and snarls at me. I worry that the next escalation will be when she no longer allows me to carry her into the bed and instead takes a chunk out of my face. Please note: I work very hard to use a neutral voice and not treat her kennel time as punishment. I started with simple coaxing with a treat but have resorted to carrying her because her escalation has resulted in more hands-on approach to getting her in her kennel -- not vice versa. Also, while it sounds like I'm describing a very aggressive dog, the truth is that she's actually quite a good girl. The only time she gets aggressive if when she's overly aroused (playfully or during a temper tantrum). But I need to nip this in the bud so it does not become an aggressive dog problem.

To be honest, I sometimes forget that she's a puppy. After all, she's almost the full height & weight of an adult BC. She's quick to catch on to the things SHE wants to learn. And puppy class ended when she turned six months. So, there's a part of me that sometimes feels that we've left the puppy stage behind. But you are so right. She's still has much to learn and is depending on me to teach her. When I first joined this forum, someone posted about an "aggressive" puppy and how they had it euthanized. That post sent me into a panic. I thought that I, too, had received a "damaged" dog and that was why the normal bite inhibition techniques were not working. Since then, I've learned that my girl is NOT aggressive, not in the least. Yeah, I refer to her as a "Wild Child." She can be downright stubborn at times. She bites hard, but in her mind it's just rowdy puppy play. And she has a serious problem with self-control, like a child with ADHD. But she's doesn't have a mean bone in that slender little body. Now and then, I think back to that post and sadly wonder if that woman's "aggressive" pup was just a happy-go-lucky Wild Child like my freckle-faced girl, Bodie (now pictured in my avatar). I plan to purchaseControl Unleashed in the next two weeks. I have not made up my mind which of the three books will be best. Maybe the puppy book will be the right place to start. That way, we'll have an adult CU to look forward to later BTW, as I type this, my Bodie girl is resting calmly on the floor next to my chair. To look at her now, nobody would ever know that deep inside she has a wild streak that runs from her nose to the tip of her tail. :-)

Alexandzucchini: Is the third book a true "update" (revamp, etc) of the original? Or is it a continuation (new ideas or new games) that is to be used in addition to the original? My girl is 7 months old, a "puppy" in many respects but more of an adolescent pup than an infant pup. Would we do best to start with an adult book or do you think we need to start with a puppy version? Ruth: Tethering her is a good idea. Waiting her out could be a challenge, though. Her determination and stamina is far greater than mine! LOL

Can someone give me more details about the Control Unleashed book than what's written on the Amazon site? I've noticed from previous posts on this site and several posters have used the book with varying degrees of success. Before I spend more money, I'd like to know if it might be helpful for myself and my pup. It appears to be geared toward people who are or plan to be involved in agility training or off-leash activities. Between my recent health issues and my pups behavior, I don't think that's something we'll be doing. But I'm still desperate for a better behaved pup. This pup has cost me a fortune in toys, treats, training, leashes, playpen, etc and at 7 months does not show any sign of being trusted to have full run of the house without constant supervision. Unless I've played her to exhaustion, locked her in her playpen or crate, or am in the process of training, she goes on a counter/bed/dresser/table/desk/sink surfing spree for something she's not supposed to have. I've started calling her "Nosey Girl" because she's the most curious dog I've ever owned. But the real problem is her excited play biting, which we've unsuccessfully tried to stop for months. As a pup, we yelped "ouch" whenever she bit in an attempt to teach soft mouthing. Instead, she saw it as fun and became more aggressive in her play. Next, we tried redirecting, with limited success. She knows "sit" and "down" but when she's in play-bite mode it takes treats in hand to get her to stop biting and sit. She does not initiate this behavior with strangers, but she will attempt to greet them by jumping on them. She *can* be very good in her covered playpen (in the living room) but if she hears me talk on the phone or messing around in the kitchen, she gets agitated and starts to bark or jump against the sides of the playpen. She will settle into her crate for a quick 45-minute nap and will be okay in there if I leave the house (not separation anxiety). But if she knows I'm home while she's in the crate she has a fit. She barks and lunges against the side of the crate, actually scooting it from the wall to the side of my bed. (Yes, I ignore and won't let her out until there's a break in the barking. I've tried covering her crate but she pulls in the cover and tears it up.) At night, she sometimes gets agitated if I take too long to come into the bedroom but gets quiet once I climb onto my bed and turn off the light. As best as I can tell, she is not abnormally fearful, though she does stop and put her ears back and looks at me for assurance if she hears an unexpected, loud noise (like yesterday's thunder or the painter power washing the house). She enjoys the experience of being around other dogs--sniffing, greeting, following but is not that interested in playing with them. (puppy class, my son's chihuahuas, doggy daycare -- No Dog Parks) We attend training class almost every week and my girl is pretty good about following through with lessons in the house (except "stay" which she mostly refuses to do). She's less inclined to train in the backyard but I still do some training with her out there to get her used to it. Anywhere else it can be a challenge to get her to do a simple sit or down. Any suggestions or ideas? I wanted to do Karen Overall's Relaxtion Protocol but my girl won't "stay" long enough for me to walk away two steps. Is Control Unleashed something that might help my high-strung girl? Or can you think of another program that would be better for us. FYI, physically, I do have some limitations. Recently, I've developed some dizziness issues that become worse with bending or head movement. So training that I can do from a sitting position would be best.

My pup loves bully sticks, but they are costly so she mostly gets them when riding in the car and only rarely at home. Our trainer recommended a raw, frozen chicken wing. My pup loves them. She gets one almost every day. It's not a long lasting chew, though. She is 7 months and can devour a frozen wing in less than 10 minutes, bones and all, but she really does get a good chew workout with it. I'm still trying to teach my girl how to use a frozen Kong. She's fine if it's smeared with peanut butter and nothing else inside. But if I freeze moist kibble inside she'll ignore it, even once it's thawed. I think she does not grasp the idea of getting her tongue inside to get at the food. The only way she uses her Kong is if I fill it with dry kibble and she tosses it around until the kibble flies out. I might need to mix the moist kibble with peanut butter and very lightly and loosely fill the Kong to see if that works. My pup is good about chewing her Benebone wishbone. But she wasn't always interested. I tried soaking it in beef broth and smearing it with peanut butter but all she'd do was lick it. Finally, we'd have play session where I'd animate the wishbone until she wanted to bite it. Then I'd animate and let her bite again. Then she'd chew it, but only if I held it for her. (Talk about SPOILED) It took weeks but she finally started picking it up and chewing it on her own. For us, the Benebone is one of the safest and most cost-effective chewables. I have not tried Himalayan cheese sticks. They are out of my price range, especially now that I'm buying so many training treats. From what I can tell, the sticks are pretty hard. It could be that they were too hard to be interesting to Mac. When my girl was a couple months younger, we gave her cow ear. They are thinner than a pig's ear and crunchy -- like a doggie potato chip. She used to like them a lot but now that she has big girl teeth she's not as interested.

Thanks D'Elle and urge to herd for the training tips. I agree that rolling over is not a big deal and I sure won't argue that the best way to keep her from tearing up my socks is to keep them out of sight. It's just such an odd little quirk of hers. And it's not just dirty socks or my socks. Last week, she spotting a lone sock peeking out of the pile of clothes I was folding. Before I had realized what happened, she snatched it and took off running. Twice this has happened. She bypasses tops, pants, panties -- but she has sock radar! My pup is very bright. Unfortunately, her owner can be a bit dimwitted at times. There are days when I have to stop and remind myself who is supposed to be the trainer and who is supposed to be the trainee. Chipsy, you'll have to dig through some of the videos, but these posters have some good training videos on YouTube: Kikopup: https://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup/videos Here is a video with 45 different tricks-- but there are no instructions for teaching the tricks. Still, it might be a good place to start. If you see what you want Quinn to learn, then do a search to see if the instructions come up elsewhere.

Hi. I also have a 7-month-old smooth coat border collie. Mine is female and, like your Quinn, she is just now starting to mellow out. That does not mean she's calm. Nope. Some days she's just a royal pain, a little prima dona who thinks the world revolves around her. I might have to take part of the blame for that since I do tend to cater to her at times. But at least she's not the ultra-hyper, super annoying, constantly nipping puppy that she was two months ago. I bought a really cool book titled "101 Dog Tricks" by Kyra Sundance. Easy tricks include "shake," "Take & Give," "doggy push-ups" (sit, down, sit, down), "jump over a bar or through a hoop" (not recommended for our young pups), "crawl" "spin in circle" "bow" "get your leash" and more. It also includes much harder tricks like having the dog pick up their toys, pick a card from a deck, stack rings on a pole, and basic agility skills like go through a tunnel, across a teeter totter or weave between poles and beginning scent skills (find a tea bag on a person in the room). Several of the of the tricks require items that some of us don't have readily available or require the owner to be somewhat athletic (do summersaults, handstands or jump rope with their dog). Unfortunately, my girl has a 59-year-old owner with temporary (fingers crossed) balance issues, so I don't work with her nearly as much as I'd like. My current goal is to teach her some basic manners. To be honest, it's not going very well. She'll walk fine on a leash in the backyard, but take her out of the house and she pulls like a sled dog. I can get her to wait for treats but she will not wait at the door. She knows "take & give" when working with her toys and "leave it" when dropping a piece of chicken or cheese between her paws. But she's not grasped the idea of leaving my socks alone giving them to me once they are in her mouth. Try as I might, I could not get my girl to roll over. But I was dumbfounded when I got her to step in a box (all four feet) that was barely as wide and not quite as long as she is. I have no idea how to raise a puppy without a crate. This one is especially nosey, finding things to get into when I'm not looking and can't be trusted outside of a crate or playpen when I'm sleeping, fixing meals or otherwise distracted. We recently introduced her to doggy daycare, so that she will be familiar with the place when we have a weekend getaway this summer. All the dogs get a two-hour, midday break in a crate. And when staying overnight, she'll sleep in a crate. As for car travel, we used to have my girl ride in the back of the SUV until one day when I had to put my foot on the break really hard. She was standing up against the back seat and flew over it when I braked. Now, I use a backseat doggie hammock and a short leash that hooks her harness to the seatbelt. This combination keeps her secure, close to her people, yet not a distraction for the driver: https://www.amazon.com/Winner-Outfitters-Covers-Cover-Trucks/dp/B01N4OQQSJ?ref_=fsclp_pl_dp_12

I would like to hear from people in the know ... With a herding breed, such as our border collies, where does "mouthy" stop and "aggressive" begin? I have found that my girl requires a lot of structure. I try to give her regular play (short fetch sessions 4 times a day) followed by a 1-hour nap. She is much, much more compliant about going into her playpen or kennel for a nap when she's had a good play session. And she requires treats--lots and lots of treats to keep her from mouthing while being pet, to get her into her playpen without argument, to regain control of a stray sock, etc. Like several others in this thread have mentioned, my girl is super excited to meet other dogs and people. My girl loves to meet other dogs but after meeting them, she's content to just be around them, preferring to interact with the dog's owner than the dog. I've been told that this is a border collie trait. And like they've mentioned, she tends drop down the floor and let the other dog sniff. BTW, we don't do dog parks. Our interaction with other pets has been limited: dogs in her puppy class, extended family pets or the occasional friendly dog/owner we meet in the local people park.I do believe my girl is submissive, lacking in self-control, high strung, prone to anxiety (happens when crated if she hears me talking to someone in another room), mouthy and sometimes a real brat with naughty-nipping when she doesn't want to do something (go in her playpen, give up a found tissue). But I wouldn't categorize her as fearful or aggressive.

Hmmm . . . this might be a problem. She's pretty darned smart! As for me, well, I think my IQ has dropped a few points each year since I turned 40 -- almost two decades ago! But I'm going to take your advice and use socks & paper to re-teach "out." She might not give them up for food but I bet she'll give them up for a Frisbee toss.

Brown freckles! Adorable! My pup is 6 months old. I don't know if she has separation anxiety but she does get extremely agitated sometimes (not all the time) when I put her in her crate. She's fine in there for short periods (45 min to 1 hour), especially after a good game of fetch. And she does well at night, provided I crawl onto my bed (in the same room), tell her good-night and then turn off the light. She has never been fond of being crated for more than a couple hours at a time, even when she was a sleepy young pup. She must sense that I'm leaving because when I have a doctor's appointment, make a trip to the grocery store, etc. she will pitch a fit. I put her in her crate when we have dinner and usually give her a snack of her own. She's fine until her food is gone and/or she hears our voices. Then she will throw a fit. She's actually lunged against her crate, scooting it almost 2 feet from the wall. She's probably get farther, except she hits the side of the bed frame. The few times I've had to leave her with someone else, she doesn't even notice I'm gone. As long as someone is paying attention to her, she doesn't care what I do. So, for that reason I don't think her anxiety stems from being separated from her people.

I would do an internet search for doggy daycare. I'd never heard of such a thing until recently. I found one in a neighboring city that has great reviews and has half-day, full-day and overnight rates. It's not cheap, but for the money it will give you peace of mind and save your son the hassle of taking care of your pet after a long workday. My vet offers kenneling services, but it means being in a crate most of the day with potty breaks -- better than being in a crate for an 8-hour stretch but still not ideal. Most of the reading I've done say dogs should not be crated for more than 6-8 hours at a time. Most of articles say 1-hour for every month of the puppies age, up to 6 hours for dogs 6 months and older. No way I'd leave an unattended dog in a crate for a 10-, 12- or 14-hour stretch. Also, I'd be hesitant to leave a newly acquired dog alone in a screened porch, and not just because of the weather. If he gets anxious at being left alone for hours he may decide to find a way out. My girl is pretty high-strung, which I'm told is a common trait for this breed. I think she would panic and tear through the screens and any wall-type of materials, possibly hurting herself in addition to running away. I used a doggy door with my last dog. It worked perfectly for those long hours away. But I can't trust this dog to be left alone in the house, and I'm not so sure I can trust her not to climb or dig her way out of the backyard.

My pup has absolutely NO problem dropping her favorite tug rope or stuffed toy when I say "out." But that skill has not translated well to socks or paper items. I've been hesitant to give her a sock or paper to work with out of fear that it'll encourage more chewing of those objects. But maybe that's what will be needed to get her to understand that "out" is for MY items as well as hers.

tamapup, your post could easily have been my own. My pup is 6 months old and does everything yours does, except run and hide. While I have no answers, I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in your struggle. We use a playpen with a wire top in addition to a crate. Nipping and mouthing has been an ongoing problem with this pup. Some days it's obvious that she's wound up and is aggressively initiating play. Then there are times that I am sure she's throwing a temper tantrum. This happens when I try to get her to do something she doesn't want to do, like go in her crate. I'd get fed up with her biting (baby teeth are sharp!) and I'd say, "That's it. You've earned a time out." And then she's go into full on brat mode -- pulling on her leash, lunging, biting my hands and arms. Thanks to people on this forum, I learned that I was using time out incorrectly. Now, I am trying hard to undo some of the damage. Instead of think of time out as a punishment, I tell myself it is the doggy equivalent of toddler nap time. I even conjure up my sweetest voice and say, "I think it's time for my girl to have a nappy-nap" and I lure her into her crate and lavish her with additional tidbits after closing the door. Initially, she'd only fight me on the crate. Now, she does the same brat mode behavior when I say, "Playpen." I've had to resort to using high-value treats. Luring needs to be done before she goes into brat mode. Once she starts throwing a temper tantrum, treats won't stop it. When we reach that point, I physically put her in the playpen or crate -- and then I lavish her with treats for being inside. There are times when I feel I'm rewarding her for bad behavior. But I need to remember that in her mind, the biting happened two minutes earlier and has nothing to do with the treats that she gets for being in her crate now. My pup knows "out" and "leave it" and during training she is super cooperative. She'll leave a piece of chicken placed between her paws. And we can having a rousing game of tug and in the middle of it I can say "out" and she lets go. No problem. Perfect behavior. But when there is a sock, piece of paper or a tissue involved, all bets are off. She clamps down on her booty with amazing jaw strength and won't give it up unless I offer a high-value treat -- something I don't always have at my disposal. A couple days ago, my son left the bathroom door open and she immediately went in and snagged a tissue from the wastebasket. I got her to drop the tissue by giving her a treat, but when I bent down to pick up the pieces of tissue she lunged and nipped my hand. Her nipping hurts. I don't know if she'll ever get the hang of a soft bite. At this point, I'm just thankful that she doesn't clamp down with those vice-grip jaws. After seeing how hard she clamps onto a sock, I realize that my little girl could do some real bodily harm if that was her intent. For now, I'm working hard to ignore the bad behavior, reward the good behavior and pray that I can chalk up this bad behavior to puppy adolescence that she will grow out of. It's not easy!