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Sahani

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  1. I mean inbreeding in the forum members - not allowing for other genes and aspects to get in. Smala, I do not answer you, because your first response was rude, remains rude and therefore I've not pursued my original question, nor will I. And that is for me! I doubt highly that I am going to somehow feel a great need to answer your questions about my background when this forum doesn't serve me any good, and says things 'like a dog to match my armchair' you are so condescending and rude - why would anyone want to engage with that and be batting against your, obvious, discrimination and bigotry? What and feed what to you is your superior knowledge which only amounts to putting people on the backfoot? That's all I'd be engaging in, is defending who I am, my qualifications, to someone who is being fed that they've the right to do that! And for what? I'll not get my answer anyway on this forum. I've fed your power trip, run around doing it and ultimately to you, anyone who isn't you, is into armchair matching dogs. I think we know your stance and I've gathered that anyone defending themselves to you, only feed that you've the right to expect it. If you want to think it's evading - great enjoy yourself. But many people, will say - if you aren't the police or an authority of law, people probably shouldn't feel compelled to answer you. It seems to me, you've an ego. Engaging with you will only feed that. So I choose not to. If you, and a few other select members, would like to depart from the forum, and others with an openness to others, and an enquiring and less bigoted mind would like to engage, I'd be happy to. But to feed your ego....um no. Read that no one answers you, because they don't have it - and you're missing a bit of feedback that might be useful to yourself. You cannot demand answers from people. Maybe your workhands - but that'll be limited too. But the general world, no.
  2. Just so that you know, I am not a troll. I am an honest person, who was seeking help. My original post was brief, but it was to ask one question, and if I had any idea that you could assist, I'd have added further information. OR since you guys love to admonish people for what they don't do - did anyone on here ask if the colour was my main basis? No, they assumed. There was, and don't play silly buggers with me, an immediate and assumed response that everyone who comes on here is new, and therefore stupid, and going to do the breed harm. I got the response of 'why do you think your bitch is worthy of breeding?' I got that it was anathema that people ever looked at colour. These are rather instigating, fairly aggressive, demeaning, not enquiring sort of responses. If no one on here can tell that there was an immediate aggressive tact to what was really a harmless question - instead of a good enquiry, or much less provocative words, then you've been stuck around each other far too long. If someone comes on here, do not assume they have bad intent, and you may not get the telling off - which I stand by firmly was needed - that I did. If you want to have forums which welcome new people, allow them to ask, and oh yes, I've said it, be stupid, ignorant, and learn - then you need to be open to those people, even if you don't like their first message. Attempt to learn something about yourselves on here - the first two responses were argumentative, and certainly presumed a particular angle with me, without ever asking. And even if, I were on that angle, as some people who may come on here could be, aggressive stances alienate people. That is what your first two posts did. Now if you all want to stay in the inbreeding, then you won't see that. If you want to develop and be better, you'll heed the response of someone who was new, was shut down from the first, wasn't engaged, or asked reasonable, or inquisitive questions. Either you all want to learn to be better, or you want to stay in the dark. I personally came on here to help with areas of where I was in the dark with collies and I did a lot of research, a lot, on many places, sites, experts, about collies - sires, dams - it may not be information some of you might like, but I come from a long history of animals - loving animals very much and having the dedication to them. My father, who only passed a week ago, instilled that in me. I do not take that lightly. So I look at the best care and information about them. He went to medical school, learned and so much about animals, locations, history - yet he never treated people who didn't know as much as he did like they were idiots. He relished sharing with him the excitement of his learning, and enthusiasm for the topic. You may want to take a note of that. You all want to have a forum, and you want to know nothing about making it better. Stay in the dark, and you will invite and keep those that are of the same ilk, but you do not help people who are new to it, are ignorant and seeking information. You alienate them. That doesn't help the dog out or the breed, all it does is pat yourself on the back that you are so right, so right about them, about the breed. But who cares? Seriously, who cares? People who genuinely know something, care about the topic, don't need to lord it over others. They care to share their knowledge, their love of it and inspire it in others. What are you achieving? What are you telling others? That I know so much? Why not inspire them? That's an option too. Not everyone is out to kill the breed or hurt the dog. You are sheltered in a world that doesn't allow for feedback or new information to enter it. You may want to be open to that, and then others beginning in it, will be open to learning more. I did say I was down to the last selection criteria, I said I looked at a lot of other factors of what these sires brought to my dam (meaning what skills, or areas she could use boosts in to enhance her pups) before I looked at the colour. I said, this normally gets people up in arms. Does this not imply that I was already stating that I knew this was usually considered superficial? That it was a last step in the selection? If not, then you didn't read it - you took an assumed and rather guarded approach, that anyone who doesn't fully explain themselves - because it wasn't necessary at the time to do a dissertation - must be what you fear most. Your response tells a lot about you. What you fear most - not what is. And just to note, I don't think 'trolls' and I've come across them plenty, write a considered response back. They write only that which inspires more inflammatory responses and get the blood heated. Someone writing a real response, but one you don't like, isn't a troll. If you are also going to assume that which isn't something you like, to be reduced to trolling, well again, you shut yourself out from good feedback about the way you treat people from the start, and there in lies the inbreeding. Not allowing for other genes to get in there to stop the cycle of those reducing your forum down to the worst elements. And yes, dogs can be bred for working and homes. Some people, like me, have a small-holding, The dog(s) work, but are also my most beloved pets. But that's me, and there are others, who I meet, that are in that same vein. Not everyone is you. I realise my dogs may not going to strictly working farms, or show dogs, but there are some that go to people who are active, or have small-holdings and want both. And before you judge, which by the way is a way to control the world around you, there are hundreds of dogs at shelters, all bred incorrectly, and because of the over-the-top breeding restrictions, are left with no homes and no futures. There are people out there, not you, who take them in and give them loving homes - why? Because they think they are beautiful and loving. So don't discount people you don't know or don't approve of - they are also the ones saving the dogs. They just found a different means of doing it. There are many ways to have a good society, don't discount the janitors because they aren't as smart, money-making, as you. Otherwise, you'll be spending half your money making time, cleaning up your own garbage and where would you, the world be, then? By the way, thank you driezehn. That was all I was looking for - if someone had enquired further, I did have a more considered response, (and that one was written) which I put on other forums that I knew this was something I couldn't really fully rely on, I wasn't looking for exact predictions, just something to help break the tie between 2 dogs which I found both equally lovely, skilled, healthy. I only started my original post out in some small manner to first see if this was possible, if anyone had any knowledge, before I put all information out about where I was coming from. The immediate - and rather insightful into this forum's - response, was one of assumption and ensuring people are put down for their incorrectness. It isn't welcoming and if anyone on here is honest, many of you did not ask or enquire further about my intentions, you assumed them and responded accordingly. Now if you want that inbreeding on here, great, but then you will get people responding as I do and saying 'don't assume anything about me and more importantly, you're rude, condescending, and elitist' which is what I said, and if this goes on, I won't be the last to say it. I don't mind what driezehn said, at least he said something which was open to discussion. He has had different experiences than you all, and found love in it. I'd say to that person, rude comments don't help make friends and influence people...have you read your responses to me in the first place? How condescending they were - and since have been? If not, then you maybe need to re-think it. You all aren't open. Look at Driezehn versus Smala? Which one do you think gives the OP the benefit of doubt and allows dialogue? Until you see how your posts are viewed outside your circle, your forum cannot improve. Oh and Urge to herd...what point are you making? You seem more like a troll than anyone...trolling around with little snide comments, for what? to make you feel better about yourself in the world? Please! You had nothing to add other than rudeness. Again, forum wake up - if the people have been here a while but they have to dredge in and inspire more anger, then you aren't seeing your people, accurately. It's great to point it out in strangers, less easy when it's friends. Senior member? Sounds a bit childish for a senior member. But that's just me. I gave you feedback, maybe stuff you do not like, but feedback - and you come back with childish comments? Grow up. Learn to take some criticism without reducing it to 'nashing my teeth, crying rivers' Childish.
  3. Since we’re opining here, I’ll opine away…thank you very much for the opportunity you given me to do the same. Since we haven’t read what I’ve written quite well enough, please let me elaborate that I had already done the health tests, and skills I was seeking BEFORE I looked at the colour. That was just a final decision tie-breaker. That’s it folks. It seemed a rather short message without too many words before but still this seems to have confused and befuddled y’all. So let me get to the next point, and yes, I am happy – nay thrilled – to be excluded from this forum. It will be a welcome reprieve from the clear in-breeding – pun intended. Next, I am not a newbie off the bus, so do not take me for such. I suffer fools about as lightly as you suffer breeding that isn’t controlled by you. Throughout history, dogs have been bred from wolves to look entirely different. And yes, looks were a factor in a history of dog selection and breeding. What you have is an OPINION – yep folks that’s it – about who should breed and how they should. You have an opinion, I do too – though I’d fathom to say you may not like my opinion of you, and despite what some might find endearing in you, I don’t and I’d say I am not sure that some humans should breed. Just like you don’t like that I want to breed my dog, but guess what – that’s your opinion. And there’s a saying, they’re just like …. everyone’s got one. Now here is a bit of knowledge for you. You are the ‘border collie experts’ and guess what, you can do NOTHING to control people breeding dogs, specifically, border collies. Nothing. You will never get a law passed, you will never get regulations to enforce this. That’s just a fact. Not opinion, pure and simple fact. Here are a few other facts: 1. Your idea behind breeding border collies does not mean that those who do it right care more for an animal, than those who are not in the industry. There are a lot of collies that go to rescue locations, are abandoned due to not hitting the high standards and without people who just love them for looks, well they’d be euthanised. There are plenty of people, who aren’t in the industry, who care more for those souls, and accept puppies back that don’t go to forever homes, than your over-the-top standard breeders probably ever do. They’re often too concerned with rules, and saying too bad, you don’t get your money back, than they are with the welfare of the animals. 2. You cannot – let me repeat – cannot enforce, nor control, anyone wanting and actually breeding the dogs. So you have 2 choices – and only 2 I might add. Not opinion again, just fact. You can alienate them, and leave them to their own discretion, to breed as they see fit. Or you can educate them, and assist them the best way you know how, with your vast knowledge. You leave them to wonder around with no knowledge, you do nothing to help the breed, you claim to love so much. You only seek out your own vindication that you are so right, that you are the only one who benefits from this great decision – not the dogs. So you might want to bear in mind, who you are serving. Read Anthony DeMello – we are all selfish. What is your selfishness serving? The dog breed or you? Don’t claim it is the dog breed, because alienating people who will do what you cannot stop, isn’t helping the breed. 3. Dog breeds have been created for 1000’s of years, and just as often as necessity, was looks. Many of those have developed into much loved breeds, and may have even – dare I say it!!! – been factored in at times to the working breeds to find more ascetically pleasing and useful looks! Or maybe helped in terms of better temperaments, people skills (Oh I so wish there was selective breeding in humans). 4. There is nothing wrong with me using colour as a final selection. Nothing. You have an opinion, mine is different – but it is me who is breeding and it is me who will find the pups homes, not you. So when you do the breeding, be my guest to use your selection process and if does not include colour, great. I do and it’s at the end of the selection process, not the entire selection process. And besides which, it was simply as a tie-breaker between 2 equally lovely, skilled, healthy sires. It is not anathema to good, responsible breeding as part of a process of selection. It is done in mating, humans, animals, 100’s of creatures use looks as part of a process. It is anathema that people skills, communication skills lack so severely on here. I do not like rudeness nor elitist statements and I am no shrinking violet. And guess what…even if you do not help me – which I gave up on – I will breed my dog! So no matter what…I am going to severely upset your world, far more than you will mine! And that is about the best thing in the world. I found 2 sires and they’re great, I just needed a tie breaker but ultimately I don’t suffer either way. You clearly do at the idea of people breeding without your consent – so I’m ahead of the game! Enjoy yourselves.
  4. Hello, Before I ask any questions, I'll state that I do not have a championship dog, nor am I breeding them. I am breeding for homes & working dogs. I have sought out a lot of other information about sires I'd like to use, based on what they can bring to my dam. That combined with those within my proximity of travel, I've selected 2. Now I am down to the last selection criteria, and this one would normally get people up in arms, but hey...it's the market we do live in. So the last piece is how genetically, they will combine with looks. I've tried to read a lot about Border Collie genetics, but alas I am no geneticist. Recessive genes, dominant, alleles and extensions and I am spinning circles. She is a merle, and I know not to breed with another merle. But then after looking at eyes, hips, behaviour, working ability - I need to pick one. Does anyone know anything - even if it's a bit basic - about how the genetics combine for colour/eye combinations? Like I said, I am not looking for an absolute prediction as to the pups, just trying to weigh up the reasonably possible scenario. I hope that someone can give me a little assistance. Many thanks!
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