jami74

Yeah, I knew someone would pick up on that. I have done lots of research and examining of our situation and I am aware that neutering may or may not affect his attitude either way, but as it is an inevitable consequence of living where we do and our lifestyle I am happy that the time is right now he's 14 months old. His reactivity when out on the lead has improved so much, when we are both concentrating. Sometimes one of us is not or something catches us by surprise and he'll lunge and spin. While it feels like we are still years away from being able to walk calmly through bank holiday crowds we are at least managing to do some sensible lead walking ignoring people and traffic. I think part of our progress is due to him maturing but also like to think it's also as a result of my patience and the hours I've put in. Obviously I'm not expecting neutering to instantly fix those last few lunges but a week of him feeling a bit quieter than usual and needing only lead walks won't do any damage.

Oh thank goodness! I worried after I posted that you might be offended. I've really taken on board other peoples advice here about mental stimulation being more tiring than physical and I think for our boy everything outside of our home is mental exercise whether that is sniffing in the grass, practicing lead walking and not reacting to things or being in the car. I've even been practicing settle in different outside locations and while he's getting better at laying quietly he is certainly very alert listening and watching and sniffing and needs to have a good sleep once home to process it all. It also seems to tire him out more if I am at home all day as I move around doing housework and he follows me watching what I'm doing, helping me (picking up things I've dropped or carrying rubbish to the bin), doing a few tricks as we go. On days that I'm at work I'm told he sleeps most of the day, then he's a pain in the backside most of the evening. I am finding the exercise balance hard though. If we have more trips out that don't involve loose running he calms down, pants less and becomes more responsive, but then when I do let him off he's more likely to go crazy, ignore recalls, and be restless the next day. If he has some off lead time every day he is less likely to run himself crazy and his recall is better. A little bit of off lead time seems to de-stress him but too much stresses him out. So everyday is an experiment to find the perfect combination of outsideness and running. I am also intrigued by all these border collies I see walking nicely with their owners, either on lead near traffic or off lead in the countryside. Even when our boy has run himself stupid and flops down waiting for us, he never walks he gets back up and runs. I would love for us to go for a nice relaxed hour long walk.

He's being done in a fortnight. I'm hoping that it reduces his reactivity a bit. With playing fetch I favour shorter throws so our game is more about retrieving and returning than running and we don't always take the ball. We don't have dog parks, but we have countryside and we come across other dogs. We've never stopped to play with another dog for a whole 15 minutes, I don't think our boy could play for that long. Also from my very limited experience (mostly YouTube videos) of herding it looks like the dogs do intermittent running, even if they're working a large flock they seem to run a bit then lay down then run a bit etc. I'm trying to replicate this a bit with our boy because if encouraged/allowed to just run and run he seems to go into a different zone that just doesn't look healthy and takes him hours to come down from. For comparison this is was our boys day yesterday. I'm not saying it's right, I keep tweaking things trying to find the right balance of exercise and training. On our morning outing I did a couple of ball throws and then sent him to sniff, he then had a five minute play with a dog who matched him in age and energy before moving on for more sniffing and peeing. He ran around a bit (he likes to run a circle around clumps of bushes) and we did a couple of recalls. He saw another dog and they approached had a quick sniff and moved on. A couple more ball throws with a bit of direction/stays/tricks and then we sat down for a rest as he was panting lots. Then we saw a person with three border collies (big ones who walk along sensibly with their owner), he trotted over to have a look at him and they looked back. Then he did more sniffing back towards the car park, barked at a lawn mower and was put on the lead for some practice. He was probably out of the car for about 30 minutes. With the journey each way and our little lead practice before and after he was out for just over an hour. During the day he had a little bit of tricks/petting/treats with the other inmates and freedom to go outside to pee, play or chew. In the afternoon he had his pre-op visit at the vets, we were out for less than 30 minutes but he found it highly exciting and exhausting and went to sleep when we got back. He probably would have pretty much slept through until morning but at 10pm before bed he got some more lead practice, a bit of tree sniffing and lots of treats, about 20 minutes worth. Food wise he had two Kongs stuffed with peanut butter, kibble, mince and wet food, lots of training treats and access to kibble in his bowl which he didn't touch. He weighed in at 19kg, he is short and stocky and very hairy but I can feel his ribs and some of his spine knobbles. His stools also go loose after excitement/stress.

I'm sorry Shelly I don't have anything to add about what it could be but wanted to reply as our dogs are similar age. Our boy sleeps as much over night as yours now and will also have one or more longer naps during the day. Sometimes, if we've done something particularly busy (not necessarily exercise related, maybe just been out for much longer than usual in the car or visit somewhere new) then he'll flop to sleep and still be tired the next day. But this is a sometimes occurrence, maybe once a week or less that he tires out that much. It does sound like Merlin gets a lot more exercise than our boy, but I'm sure 3 ten minute exercise sessions shouldn't exhaust him. I hope you soon get to the bottom of it, it must be so worrying.

That's such a helpful thing to read, thank-you. Sometimes it seems that the experienced owners here would never have the sort of problems and behaviour that newbies are go through with their puppies. Where I am crates aren't really a thing with pet owners so please do not be upset or offended by anything I say, I am genuinely ignorant. It looks like your dog spends about two thirds of his life in his crate, is that a lot or is that about normal? My one year old boy is calming down and things are getting easier at home, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't sleep two thirds of his life. And even when he does have long sleeps they are broken by him waking up stretching, walking to another place and laying down somewhere else to go back to sleep. Sometimes he'll have a drink of water or find a rogue kibble en route or walk around checking where everyone is before settling down again. (Actually it's really nice being able to say that, six months ago he was either fast asleep or being manic, I think age really has played a huge part) Maybe with your puppy the penny just hasn't dropped that it's okay to sleep anywhere else other than the crate, when he's out of it he's always doing something or given attention. I don't know how you'd teach him that though. Our boy will go to sleep if he thinks we're asleep, when he was younger we used to trick him into having a nap by all pretending to be asleep. I don't know if that works for anyone else.

Our boy calmed down around ten months old, it was like he suddenly realised that it was okay to sleep during the day and that it was okay to walk across a room instead of ricochet off the walls and furniture. One thing which we have recently done is to restrict his off lead crazy running and ball play. I have to admit that during the winter when it was dark and cold and sometimes wet our outings were short and to make up for that I did lots of ball throwing to try and get in as much exercise for him as I could in a short a time as possible. Now we have daylight and milder temperatures we can be out for longer, but unfortunately he still thinks that off lead means running as fast as he can for as long as he can, to the point that I have worried that he might explode. And then he'd be crazy all evening and demanding again the next day, like he never properly came down from the high that he got from running. Now we don't give him so much freedom to run like that. At home he can run down the garden and sometimes he gets a ball thrown for him, but only 2 or 3 times, not over and over again. We try to stop before he gets intense, then play find-the-toy or do some tricks for a few minutes to transition into less energetic behaviour. Our outings are now more on lead in grassy areas (so not too many things to take him over threshold), lots of freedom to sniff and if he starts panting and pulling I drop treats in the grass for him to sniff out which slows him down again. To start with I felt really guilty that I wasn't letting him off to run every day as he seems to love it so much, but very quickly he became calmer at home (we had a couple of days of really bad weather which meant we didn't go out and by day 3 he was so much more relaxed). He stopped panting all the time and his poo has firmed up. He's always been a panter and always had soft poo, I'd never related it to exercise and stress. He also seems more able to focus and less quick to reach threshold when we practice walking near people and cars. We do still have off lead exercise, once or twice a week, (although I try not to let him run himself stupid) and afterwards he is restless and demanding for the rest of the day and some of the next.

It's not a huge problem as we try not to see too many dogs while we're working on the lead but I'd like to understand what might be going on and what I can do about it. Our boy is generally fine when loose. Some dogs he'll greet playfully and then play chase with, other dogs (generally older calm looking dogs) he'll have a quick sniff greeting with and then we'll be on our way, and yet other dogs he chooses not to approach or acknowledge at all. Generally we don't have problems and as he seems to respond differently to different dogs I thought his dog manners must be okay. On the lead things go differently. He doesn't look to me like he's doing anything wrong but it seems like the other dog takes offence. The last two incidences went like this: 1) Neighbour had a visiting dog and wanted to introduce him to us on the leash. He looked calm and sensible and friendly and interested in our boy. Our boy was excited to see him and there was tail wagging on both sides with them inching towards each other. They sniffed noses and then our boy went for a good sniff at his undercarriage, after a few seconds the other dog stiffened and then snapped at him. Our boy went to retaliate, it was fairly mild but hackles were up. We both walked away in opposite directions and they've since seen each other through the fence with no aggro. Guessing our boy was being rude sniffing for too long and I should have ended the greeting sooner. 2) We were practicing our nice leash walking in a quiet area with lots of space. I saw an owner and a small loose dog, we were in a big space and not in their path so I asked our boy to sit. I am working on him being able to not react to dogs/people/cars walking past and he's doing so well. I thought the owner would see we were on the leash and sitting nicely and encourage her dog to go round us. Instead she walked past staring at us and her little dog came running up to our boy, he stood up and the little dog started snarling and snapping at him. Our boy started snapping back and the little dog turned and trotted away after its owner. I don't really know why loose dogs come up to us and then start growling, but it has happened a few times. Obviously I try to avoid places where there might be loose dogs if I am not able to let our boy loose, that last example was in a car park. We've even had it when we've tried walking away from the other dog and then run after us trying to have a go. I understand that our boy is at a disadvantage if he is leashed so might get defensive, if we are in an appropriate place and I see a friendly looking loose dog approaching I'll let our boy loose so he can play, but I don't understand why loose dogs approach us and then get growly and snappy at him. It's such a shame and it's not possible to end greetings with loose dogs sooner as they just follow us if we walk away.

I feed our boy as much as he wants, he is also very lean and I can feel his ribs and spine. If he starts gobbling his food and asking for more I treat him for worms, then he gets back to his picky self again.

She's beautiful! I had the opposite cross, my dog looked like a (big) border collie but seemed to have less of the border collie traits. Don't do it! I know it's tempting but do not give her triple the amount of exercise recommended. Yep! The more running around exercise you give them, the crazier they go. Our boy was the same. It has got better. I think evenings very gradually started to get easier from about six months. He is a year now and while he can be a bit 'restless' in the evenings (especially on days he's had more exercise than usual) our evenings are so much easier. I learnt that more physical exercise did not make things better. Less crazy free running does make things better. Now our walks are more on leash walking around sniffing and doing tricks and if I let him off it will be for a few minutes to fetch or find a toy I've hidden and then he goes back on. I don't let him run himself into a hyper frenzy any more in the hope he'll be easier at home. This article explains a bit about the problems of too much fetch, especially the veterinary behaviourist bit at the bottom: https://bharcsblog.wordpress.com/2019/04/14/whats-all-the-fuss-about-fetch/?fbclid=IwAR1xAn5aU5BpL6n4KU0VeqCpAPZ6eUj_Y4Pp1K9jYfYPpLUhfLT2_oW_Fm0

Your dog walker still takes him out even though he bit her? Do you think she is 100% honest about everything that happens when he is with her? (Other dogs/stressors, off leash time, behaviour etc). Does he have to go with her for an hour every day? It sounds like he gets more away-from-home activity and stimulation than our one year old. In fact I've reduced away-from-home activity again very recently and again seen an improvement in behaviour and calmness. I don't have anything against dog walkers by the way, I just wouldn't trust my dog with one because he has shown some fear aggression type behaviour and I wouldn't want to pass control of his environment over to anyone else. I can't imagine anyone else being as invested in helping him to succeed as I am. The café sounds lovely. I would love so much to work somewhere I could our boy.

Returning our boy to his beginnings wouldn't be an option for us. I don't know what I'd do if I was in the same position as the OP, I know I would try everything I could to figure out why it was happening and try to fix it. But ultimately I know the advice I got would be what you are suggesting.

Are you scared? I'd be scared if our boy bit me with the intention to hurt and as it sounds unpredictable so how do you avoid getting hurt? Do you think he can see okay? Maybe if he is visually impaired sudden shadows near his head might frighten him. I have no experience with aggressive dogs but I reckon you are going to get some advice here that you might not like.

Move your trash can so he can't access it. We've taught our boy to give us things, initially swapping something he didn't especially want for a nice treat. Now if I see him with something he's not meant to have I ask him to give it to me and he does (then I get him a treat). That obviously sounds much easier than it was, and sometimes it looks like he's having a little internal debate about it.

Expect to train your kids. Mine are much older but they still needed training. No rough play. It might be fun for your puppy and your kids to be snatching things off each other, wrestling and dragging each other around by tug toys/sleeves etc, but just don't. Our boy got more and more growly and bitey and unpleasant for a while. I put a stop to rough play and it improved almost instantly. Plus, cute little puppies grow into big strong dogs very fast. Slow, gentle movements. When your puppy runs after them pouncing on their feet and grabbing their socks/trousers/ankles tell your children they must stand very still. It's cute and funny when your puppy is very small but quickly becomes horrible. I hadn't realised how fidgety our son was until we got our boy, he would jiggle his feet and flap his hands without knowing he was doing it and the puppy would get very excited. Squealing also seemed to set our boy off. Over excited puppies aren't fun. Have lots of puppy toys placed strategically around so whenever the puppy starts mouthing something (or someone) he's not meant to, then someone can swap it for an appropriate toy. We've had our boy for nearly a year now, the first 3 months were very hard work but thankfully he's never been destructive (only of his own toys). Think of your puppy like having a two year old. She'll put things in her mouth she's not meant to, she'll wee in places she's not meant to, she'll behave badly when she's due a nap and sometimes she'll wake you up at night.

I don't have advice, but it sounds sweet. Saying that, I've had dogs throw balls at my feet and as I've gone to pick them up they've grabbed at them, their teeth narrowly missing my hand. I've been really strict with our boy about not doing that, he either gives it to me or he doesn't but he is certainly not allowed to give it to me and then change his mind and snatch it back. Our boy tends to retrieve other dogs balls for them and return them to the owner, he's very fast so often gets there first. Once he's returned their ball he will come back to me and I have to grab him because not all owners have the sense to wait until I've put some distance between us or got him running after his own ball.

Our boy liked to lick. I think I got cross with him in the end, I really do not want his slober on me. I did try to be the sort of person that didn't fluff themselves up menacingly and raise a voice (usually just a 'Uh uh! I don't like that! Go away!) at their dog before pouting and turning away, but I couldn't manage it. Obviously I'd pass him something he was allowed to mouth and I make sure he has plenty of things he is allowed to put his mouth on, he does seem to need to chew a lot. And of course life goes on, I don't hold grudges, thirty seconds of pouting is plenty long enough.

Thank-you for the reassurances, I'll be extra careful about if/where we let him off and aim for longer walks on a long line so he can wander and sniff but not run off or ignore us. He's just started a new thing. He likes to take his Kong outside to eat for a little while and then he'll bring it with him and come back inside. I don't mind that at all, but now he asks to come back inside and when I open the door he runs off down the garden. So I close the door and a few minutes later he asks again and I open the door and again he runs off down the garden. I'm sure he thinks this is hilarious. It's not quite warm enough to leave the door open yet and if I don't open the door he starts barking.

Our boy is now one! I was thinking about it last week and was planning to post about the changes and what a lovely dog he's growing into. I was going to say about how he now settles and sleeps during the day, about how he automatically sits at a door and waits to go through it, how he has stopped nicking socks and even lets me brush him a little bit. He is still very excitable and struggles to focus when we're out, but can now do actual walking on the lead next to me, albeit only for a few minutes at a time. Where he used to bark and lunge and lose it if he saw someone in the distance, now they can be quite close and it's more a little self contained hop and a cough. I was going to talk about how good his whistle recall is (used selectively for ball play and super nice treats) and even voice call brings him enthusiastically back. But then this week happened. We were out having off lead fun and I called him, treats at the ready (I do quite a bit of recall for a treat and fuss before releasing him again) and he got half way to me and then changed his mind , like he literally decided that he wouldn't come and he'd go off and sniff something instead. And then he was deaf as a post and no amount of noise or movement from me caught his attention. It was a bit unnerving. When I did get him I gave him a fuss and threw the ball for him a couple of times before putting him on the lead and going home. I thought it was a one off, but then a similar thing happened a couple of days later. The whistle really is a special signal and he usually runs as fast as he can towards us when he hears it, but this time I blew it and he ran as fast as he could in a different direction. I blew it again and he about turned and ran in a different direction (but not towards me). It was a bit windy so I wondered if the wind carried the sound and he got confused about where it was coming from. The third time I blew he came, skidding into a sit position at my feet and looking really pleased. I didn't really feel as enthusiastic as I usually do when he comes first time but we did some fun tricks and he went back on the lead and home. I thought the whistle was fool proof, used only when I think it can't fail and when I've got a high value reward in the hope that if I ever need to use it in an emergency it would work. Now I'm feeling a bit nervous about taking him for off lead exercise. The places we go tend to be safe enough that it's not the end of the world if he doesn't come first time, and I don't think he'd just run and never come back, he always comes back he's just wanting to do it on his own terms now. Lead walking is improving, we have been working really hard on it for months, but it still requires lots of treats and concentration from us both so lead walking for an hour isn't really practical. I do have a long line and there are places I keep it on him and let it trail, but as he doesn't walk or potter when off lead if I was to hold it he would just go to the end of it and if he did decide to go for a run by the time he got to the end of it the force would either pull me over. Once he's had a good run off lead he does slow down and stay closer. I almost think that if I took him for an off lead jaunt twice a day it might tire him out/calm him down enough that he wouldn't be bothered to run off and not listen. But, I've been careful not to create a dog that needs two big outings a day (he gets ball play at home as well as tricks and games during the day) and I'm not convinced that he would suddenly be more responsive if he had more freedom. I've found in the past that he gets less responsive when he gets tired. Or, do we do less off lead stuff so he doesn't get into the habit of ignoring me? He likes to have a good run and always seems relaxed and content when we get home afterwards. Any ideas? He is due at some point to be castrated. I know it is a controversial issue but I'm wondering if opting for sooner rather than later would be a good idea.

Do you think it is the noise? If so, how about finding a YouTube video of traffic noise and playing it very very quietly at home while you play, do tricks, feed treats etc. We have done this with fireworks, kids playing, dog sounds etc. We got to the stage with the fireworks where we could leave them playing quite loudly for an hour or so while we got on with our lives and he'd ignore it. That's not to say if one goes off unexpectedly he doesn't jump up and give a bark, but that's more because it caught him by surprise than out of fear.

All of the b/w border collies I see locally have the classic markings. Our boy is mostly black, very similar to the first @NCStarkey picture. Ours has the same white front left and white chest. He also has a few white hairs just behind his collar slightly to the right and a few on his muzzle. Knowing they can be all colours and markings it's odd to see others so similar. His siblings were more classically marked.

Thank you for sharing. Our boy is about a year now and while things are improving very slowly it is reassuring to read posts like yours.

Your boy is beautiful! You completely have my sympathies with the chasing and lunging bikes/runners. We have very luckily not had an incident quite like yours, although did have one when he was much younger where he chased some kids across a field on bikes. And totally would go after runners if given the chance. Lunging and barking, yes. I tried desensitizing with what I thought was some success (some days excellent, some days worse than ever), but realise now that I was still going too fast and was trying to creep forward towards the offending distractions once he was managing not to react, rather than waiting until he is completely comfortable at that distance. Someone very recently advised me that movement (ie running around playing ball) was stimulating and food (training treats and chews) were calming so since then we've been visiting places where we can watch people/cars/bikes from a very safe distance while eating treats and I've given myself more realistic expectations (I'm thinking he'll be a nice calm dog able to ignore bikes when he's five and have stopped thinking we'll go jogging next to the cycle lane this summer). His response to the food treats are a good indication of whether we are at a safe enough distance he can relax (will eat treats normally) or whether he's close to threshold (snatches the treats or ignores them completely). For safety, because I'm nervous of him getting loose when he goes over-threshold, I have one of those lead splitters that people use when they walk two dogs with one part clipped to his collar and one part clipped to his harness. If a clip breaks or isn't attached properly or if the collar or harness breaks or comes off I'll still have him.

She's a baby, they have accidents. The trick is to watch for the signs and pop them where you want them to go quick. Our boy always started to trot back and forth sniffing the floor when he was about to poo so was easy to catch. No point telling them off afterwards as they have no idea why you are angry, or even if they do realise you're angry at the poo they can't make the connection between them being responsible for the location of it and your mood. Our boy once had a poo accident, and there happened to be lots of it. It was likely a combination of over feeding and not enough supervision so I addressed those points and it never happened again. Our boy has changed a lot in his first year of life. He hasn't been destructive, but then he hasn't been left unsupervised for long periods of time and if he's started looking like he might want to self-entertain I've directed him to something he's allowed like a chew or toy rather than ignoring him and risking him self-entertain on something he's not meant to (like furniture). He now has a couple of go-to toys he gets when he's bored and wants to chew. A lot of people use crates for their puppies when they can't watch them to prevent the wrong things getting chewed/damaged. Over the last ten months we have had some unwanted behaviour, but I have always been able to relate it back to not enough attention or too much excitement or a change in food or something different about that particular day and have tweaked things going forward. It's important to constantly evaluate how things are going and tweak them where necessary, that way minor unwanted behaviours don't suddenly turn in to big surprising unwanted behaviours.

Our boy is wary too. I give him plenty of notice where I'm going to hoover so he can put himself somewhere else. He's also wary of balloons after an unfortunate incident with one

When we first got our boy as a puppy he stank. Absolutely reeked and bathing did not help. The smell wore off so I'm not sure if it was to do with where he had come from or food or what, it doesn't really matter now. My daughters allergies seemed to worsen when we first got him and she worried that it might be him, after a bit of research we decided it probably wasn't him and she upped her allergy medication. Once the season changed her allergies cleared up so we are confident now that it wasn't him. Could it be that this dog you had for a short while was not particularly clean and full of dust? Maybe you could have controlled your symptoms with some allergy tablets for a few days and once she'd got properly cleaned up and you'd got used to each other your snuffy nose would have got better. It doesn't really seem fair to 'try another one' if it means another dog gets returned after a couple of days.