D'Elle

I feed Wellness brand, because it gets a high rating, has good ingredients, and doesn't completely break the bank, although it is not cheap. But the cheap foods, like Purina, are not good nutritionally.

I add a topper to all of the dogs' meals. This way, I can vary the topper and give them a lot of different flavors and variety while still buying the larger bags of kibble and not paying a premium for smaller bags and switching kibbles. I use various high quality canned dog foods for the toppers, and it's not really that expensive because they only get a large spoonful on top of each meal. I can get various flavors and brands of different canned foods for variety. I also top their food sometimes with raw bits of beef cut from my own meal preparation, cooked chicken breast, hard boiled eggs, yogurt, pumpkin, and other things. This also helps them to stay excited about their food.

You can look up brands of dog food to see the ingredients and an analysis of the quality of them by going to the Dog Food Advisor. I choose the 4.5 to 5 star foods, and then read the ingredients on the bag every so often when I go to the store to make sure they haven't changed the ingredients.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/

On 12/22/2023 at 5:44 PM, Nuance said:

Poch,

 From experience, you can be to soft. 

If you go with Drop it, Leave it (no treats). That's enough to learn the dog.

 My dogs don't bring me things unless they want something, like to play fight or go outside, they want attention.  Try and figure out what your dog is trying to tell you it wants. 

 

This is not about being "too soft". 

Telling someone to "go with drop it or leave it" doesn't tell them what to do with the current situation, because those are things that need to be trained.

Just saying that to the dog is not enough to "learn the dog" (I assume you mean teach the dog?)

But that's OK,  since this thread is a few weeks old the OP already got good advice on what to do and is probably doing well with their dog now.

Yep.....you have trained this dog to "steal" things in order to give them up and then get a treat. Fortunately, you can retrain this. The above advice is good. I would add that it will help if you put everything you do not want him to pick up out of his reach and only leave down his own toys. 

But don't feel bad about being "too soft" with your dog. 'Tis better to be too soft with most dogs, especially border collies who are so sensitive, than to be too hard. It's good that you have not been punishing him. 

I don't know how I missed reading this months ago. But I did and only read it today.

@beachdogz thank you so very much for this post. It made me smile and feel so good and I immediately sent it on to Kelso's people to read, and I know it will make them feel good too. Kelso accomplished a lot in his life, but I had not really thought about the things you say here, and I want to thank you immensely for pointing this out to me. Kelso was a very special dog and will be remembered.

I would probably start by seeing if the dog would like to learn to fetch. I like this for older dogs because it can be done at any level, including just in the house, but is fun for the dog and for you.

Another thing would simply be long walks, or reasonable hikes. Some dogs at that age, if they have led an active life, and still in great shape for hiking even long distances, but you will need to see for yourself what kind of physical condition this dog is in.

Heavy-duty dog sports like flyball or agility are probably out because they are so physically demanding, and do best when the dog has youthful energy.

Finally, I highly recommend Musical Canine Freestyle, which a dog can perform at any age and fitness level. Fun for dog and handler both and you can even compete with it if you are so inclined.

Love this. These dogs have so much heart. I am happy to see an owner of such a dog who has made it possible for this one to keep working and loving life. And I'm so glad that wheelchairs and other supports are available for dogs now. 

No need to stop. I wish someone would give me cookies every time it thunders!

@beachdogz, this made me laugh. Fortunately, my pup (now almost 9 months old) has not extended the game to include everything that makes a loud noise. In fact, he doesn't even run to me for a biscuit every time it thunders, just the first couple of times in a storm. And he is completely blasé about storms unless the thunder crash is super close and loud, in which case we all jump off our seats, understandably. 

Best of all, it appears that his being OK with storms has caused my other dog, who has always been terrified of them, to act less scared. He used to shake all over, which he no longer does. He goes and hides his head in the couch cushions and accepts my petting and calm words, while the pup looks at him as if to say "what's wrong?". And he'll take a biscuit from me when I give one to the pup, which he would never do previously. 

I think it's definitely a technique worth doing, of course taking into account that each dog may have a slightly different response to it. :-)

Great news. I hope the other 2 get placements too. The "Not nice" dog would probably turn into a good dog with the right kind of rehabilitation.  I have seen many dogs do a complete 180 in behavior given the right environment and handling.

This reminds me so much of the hoarder/breeder place in Texas several years ago, which was very similar. 170 border collies were there, some of them dead or maimed or so far gone they had to be euthanized. AZ BC rescue took 21 dogs from there, and one of them came to me and became my greatest foster dog teacher -- Kelso.

I hope - and believe - that all of these dogs will get the attention and help they need, and am glad they were found and rescued. 

If anyone reading this is even thinking about taking one as a foster, do it. It might turn out to be one of the most rewarding things you have ever done.

She is adorable!

You have gotten good advise. I would recommend avoiding the aprays because she might be reactive to them.

The one thing I would add is to think about stress, which I know has been mentioned, but not in detail. Does she exhibit any other possible stress signs, like licking her paws, spinning in circles, barking excessively or at nothing you can perceive, etc? If so, she may be scratching due to stress, and/or the itching is also causing her stress. Do whatever you can, in addition to the baths, to alleviate any stress she may be feeling by providing her with the most calm and relaxing environment you can. If there are children in your home, have them leave her alone and the same goes for any other animals in your home.  Make sure she gets enough exercise, but don't overdo it. And always treat her with calm gentleness. That may help a lot, even if the actual cause is allergies.

Make sure the baths include thorough brushing, because another possible cause of itching is that she could be growing out a new kind of coat for her adult fur and shedding her puppy fur, and you want to make sure there are no mats.

And I recommend saving up starting now so you can get her to a vet in case these things don't resolve it. If the problem resolves without veterinary intervention, keep the money saved because there will be a next time, and if it is an emergency you will want to be able to get her the medical attention she needs. Best of luck, and let us know how it goes! She's very cute.

Very cool. I have used Embark myself, and I think they are the best choice for doing a DNA test on a dog. I also gave no information to them ahead of time. As for Hazel, I wouldn't have guess the cattle dog part, but not at all surprised she's mostly border collie.

I wonder.....I haven't tried this, but I would if my dog had this issue........if it could be reframed in the dog's mind. Say, when there's a fly you cheerfully talk to the dog and pretend it is a game to chase and kill the fly, and then when say "yay!" and show the dead fly to the dog and give the dog treats. Or, as I have done recently with my new puppy, as soon as thunder starts rolling I say "yay! It's thunder! that means biscuits for the dogs!" and I start handing out biscuits. As a result, the pup now looks happily at me when he hears thunder instead of being afraid. Maybe if a fly is buzzing you could just say "yay, a fly, that means biscuits!", and not even chase or kill the fly until later if at all. 

Good article, and everyone with a dog should read it so they know that there can be dangers and negative consequences with playing fetch. While i agree 100% with the article that one shouldn't throw sticks, I think that the rest of the article is good as a caution only, and not a prescription for all dogs. If a person is truly involved with the physical and mental well being and health of their dog, and is paying close attention, the dangers mentioned can easily be avoided. I play tug and/or fetch with all of my dogs who want to play those games, but I always pay close attention to how they are moving, how they are reacting, how it affects them, the temperature, how long we play and other factors. Unfortunately, many dog owners don't do this, and that's why an article like this is important for people to read.....to make them realize that they should pay attention.

I would ask the same questions. And also recommend that you consider a harness that will help to lift her up so she doesn't have to struggle to get up to walk. Once you can get her walking more, it will get easier for her to walk.

Also, if she has any kind of toy that she especially likes, try enticing her with the toy to go for a walk. that worked for my senior dog when she grew less enthusiastic about walks. She loved to tug, so I would tug with her a little bit, then tell her she needed to walk a while before getting to tug again, and I'd get her down the road and back that way.  Even if it isn't a toy she wants to play with, if it's a toy she likes and wants to have, it might work.

If not a toy, then a really good treat, like tiny pieces of cooked chicken breast that you could give her as she walks along. Just count it in with her food intake for the day so it doesn't add to it.

It is with a very heavy heart that I must write this post to let all of you know, you who have followed Kelso's story and life for so many years, that Kelso died yesterday.

In May, his owner wrote to me to let me know that he had been diagnosed with cancer. But in the time since then, he had been doing so well that we al thought he would have much more time left to him. Less than a month ago I saw video of him playing and walking, with his beautiful sparkly eyes all lit up and his tail wagging, and he was as gorgeous as ever, and still had his playful and goofy spirit. 

Sadly, about a week ago he suddenly started to go downhill, and knowing that he wouldn't get better his loving people let him go. He died at home knowing he was deeply loved, after enjoying a meal of his favorite foods.

I am heartbroken, and I know all of you who followed his story and cared about him will be saddened by this as well.

Kelso was a unique dog. His story touched so many people. He taught me more about dogs, courage, and healing from trauma than any other individual I have ever known, and many dogs have benefited and will in the future benefit from what I learned from him. He went from being a dog so shut down he was essentially catatonic, having no will to live, having never had a relationship with another living being, to being a happy-go-lucky, goofy playful dog who gave and received love in great abundance and had many adventures with his wonderful people. I will always be grateful that I was given the opportunity to be there with him as he made the transition into discovering that he was a dog and what being a dog can mean. 

His person has said may times that he is her soul-mate, and after all that Kelso went through, he deserved that kind of love and relationship. I am so glad that he had such fine people to be with. His people gave him a wonderful life, full of travel and fun and the very best of care a dog could possibly have. They loved him deeply and are devastated at the loss of him in their lives. I will always be grateful to them for the wonderful home they gave Kelso.

I'm grateful also to all of you who followed this thread through the years, who supported me and gave advice, who cheered with me when he made a breakthrough and bolstered me when there was a setback, and who sent good energy to Kelso. It has meant a lot. Thank you.

I suppose it would be good for dry mouth but of course that is not the only application for it. It is great for any dog's teeth.

I use it several days a week on my dogs' teeth. I aim for daily, but don't always manage it.

I use it daily on my own teeth. A toothbrush is not going to work to take off softened plaque because it only brushes against it; fingernail or a dental tool can get under one edge of the plaque piece and flick it off, which is what you need to do.   Sometimes, the plaque will come off a little bit with the use of a washcloth rubbed firmly on the teeth after using the Oratene for a while.  But if it doesn't, and depending on how bad it is, and you don't want to chip it off yourself you may need to have a dental cleaning done on your dog's teeth and then maintain the clean teeth with regular application of the Oratene. It will work much better if rubbed into the teeth with a washcloth on your finger than if you use a toothbrush. It isn't designed to be used with a toothbrush. And make sure the dog doesn't have any water immediately afterwards, because it is supposed to remain on the teeth. If you brush your own teeth with it, don't rinse afterward.

You can train your dog to sit still long enough to clean their teeth.

What I use, and it's very effective, is Oratene gel. If an animal (or person) has plaque built up, this stuff will soften it to the point that you can chip it off with a fingernail. If there's no plaque it will prevent the buildup of any on the teeth.

I put a little on a thin washcloth and rub it onto the teeth with my finger in the washcloth. My vet recommended this because the nubby surface of the cloth will help to rub the gel onto the teeth. This seems to work a lot better than a toothbrush because I can really feel where I am on the teeth through the cloth.

Oratene is available online. Kind of expensive but really not because a little goes a long way and a lot cheaper than the veterinary dentist. I swear by it.

On 6/4/2023 at 7:50 AM, terrecar said:

This! This right here is the protocol used in operant conditioning, and it works.

Operant conditioning can work wonders.

I do Musical Canine Freestyle, and I train all of the fancy things my dogs do simply using operant conditioning. You can shape any behavior you want using that technique. A really clever dog like a border collie will learn it fast, but almost every dog will learn that way even if some are slower.

I am currently training my new puppy, a crazy little terrier mix, and operant conditioning is amazing with him. He's learning as fast as any border collie I ever trained, and faster than some. I have to wonder where he got that brain of his because he sure wasn't carefully bred!

Has your dog always been like this, or is this a new or relatively new behavior?  Border collies are known to be quick to react to things, as they have the instinct to be hyper aware and react quickly to the movement of stock. What does your dog do when she reacts to something - what behavior does she exhibit? I am asking because i wonder if it is really fear or only a startle reaction rather than being actual fear.

What is it that makes you think that she is getting it from you? Are you fearful of things happening to her when you are out on a walk with her? Do you react strongly to sudden noises yourself, or do you suddenly pull her away from things or make a noise?

Does she seem to go around most of the time with a fearful attitude, tail tucked and ears back and so on? Or, does she only jump when something startles her?

Asking these questions to clarify the situation so as to offer my best advice.

I would put treats in my pocket and have them there all the time, and reward the dog every time that she obeys me. If she doesn't come away from the barking, I'd go get her and bring her next to me and tell her to lie down and no treat would be given, but if she comes she gets a treat every time. I'd do this for a month or so and then start rewarding frequently but  randomly so that she wouldn't know if she'd get a treat or not on any given occasion, but she'd always get praise and petting. Then, slowly over the course of several weeks i would wean that down to fewer times when the dog gets the treat. But it is never a bad idea to have treats in your pocket and reward occasionally even if there's no problem getting her to come without them. Intermittent reward, once the behavior is corrected or learned, can be even more effective than reward every time. I usually have a few charlie bears in a pocket so I can use them now and then.

Oh, what a beauty! He got really lucky to come to you, Nancy. I hope it works out well for everyone. Congratulations!

Sue, I am so sorry.

sometimes it is the ones who were the most challenging who we miss the most when they are gone. Dan was a beautiful dog and he was lucky to have you as his person.

Thanks for the suggestion about the relaxation protocol. I wouldn't have thought of that. I have gone to Suzanne's website, but have never paid for a webinar yet. I did go to an in-person weekend seminar with her once years ago. It was absolutely wonderful, and I am so glad I got the chance to see her teach and work with the dogs in person. Of course, I learned a lot. 

15 hours ago, Journey said:

Patricia McConnell has a couple as well as Zac George. I don't think you can go wrong with either. 

Zac George I had not heard of, and will look it up. thanks.