mkdlin

Lots of good points made Although I think the one somewhat uncertain observation for me is whether or not the dog that has just been “corrected” by my BC is actually being rude. For example, there are cases where I feel like my BC is warning a dog off just because she’s tired (a minute ago she was just playing and running around happily with that dog). Or cases where my BC is lying there, and another dog is slowly (really slowly) walking over, but once that dog gets within a certain distance of my BC she will also warn the dog off. In these cases, it doesn’t look at all like the other dog is being rude. So while I totally understand that rude dogs should be corrected, what about these cases where those dogs aren’t really rude to begin with? To some extent, it seems like she feels that any approach made by her to other dogs is OK, but not the other way around. Perhaps the solution is to be even more diligent on bringing her away from other dogs when she’s done greeting or playing, if we want to completely avoid these situations.

I've had a lot of discussion with other dog owners on this topic lately, and since it pertains specifically to my border collie (female, 1 year 8 months old), I would like to see what everyone's thoughts on the topic are. Here's a quick overview: Our BC tends to be very intolerant of other dogs, in a few specific cases that we have observed: After greeting a dog and she does not seem interested in continuing the interaction, if we don't keep walking (and she's leashed) and the other dog keeps attempting to sniff her, she will show her teeth Typically we can tell if she wants to continue the interaction by whether or not she sits down, flips over her stomach, or invites the other dog to play (if she sits down and we don't leave, there's a good chance that a few seconds later she will show her teeth to that dog) When she's drinking water in the park and other dogs approach when she's not done drinking yet, she will show her teeth When she's tired after exercising and laying on the grass, if a dog approaches (within say a 6 ft radius), she will show her teeth After playing with a dog for a while and she's tired and wants to rest, if that dog keeps going up to her, she will show her teeth As humans, our first thought is - "you're the one who wanted to play with her! now you're getting mad at her..." In an indoors situation, if it's not a familiar dog, she is also more likely to show her teeth whenever the dog walks in her direction or gets too close And in general, she avoids interacting with dogs on walks when they seem visibly aggressive or overly hyper She has no problem being around dogs that treat her like thin air Especially, the male border collies in our neighborhood who all seem to ignore her completely and don't even look at her For a few of these male BCs she will keep trying to lick their mouth/face She also has no problem being around dogs that have "put her in her place" when she was a puppy She is not protective of toys, food, water, etc. with humans at all, and she has never tried to bite or nip at humans either (except when she was very young) There was another BC in our neighborhood where on a typical day, our dog will invite him to play. But when she's not feeling well (e.g. on her way to the vet), if he tries to get close to her, she will show her teeth. There was yet another female BC in our neighborhood who's your typical overly playful/hyper dog. Initially our dog would show her teeth to that BC quite often, but nowadays seems completely fine with her (it looks almost as if they're "good friends" these days). We've noticed that the other dog has toned it down a lot and only plays when invited. As human beings, it's natural for us to wish/want our dogs to be more tolerant of other dogs. For example, we think - why is it that our BC can approach other dogs, but they can't approach her? But at the same time I also think we do not need to force our dogs to accept the presence of other dogs that they just don't seem to like. It just does cause us a small inconvenience when other owners think that we have an aggressive dog. So I'm interested in knowing what people think about this type of situation: Should this behavior of constantly warning off other dogs be "corrected"? (i.e. training them to enjoy the presence of other dogs) Are BCs more likely to exhibit this type of behavior than other breeds? What would you do if your dog has this same behavior?

Thanks to everyone for the additional suggestions and feedback. A lot of different & unique perspectives and experiences, and I'll need some time to digest all of that - but seems like the consensus is that the chance of success is relatively low and an alternate breed would be a better choice.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback! In summary, seems like everyone's major concerns boils down to: [a] the randomness of a BC puppy's sensitivity/temperament post-adolescence inexperience with training a BC [c] city environment that may give the BC even more negative stimuli or distractions [d] climate Replying to as many questions and prompts as possible below 1. Adult rescue - have thought about it, but as BCs aren't a very popular breed here (in Taiwan, not a big country with only 20M population), there are rarely any BC rescues around. The few breeders here have been breeding BCs for a relatively long time, and I've identified one which takes great care in terms of health, environment, genetic testing, etc. of the kennel. The kennel itself is also located in another city but slightly smaller and less dense in population than the one I am living in. 2. I live in a more residential neighborhood of the city, meaning that the sidewalks are quite large and there are multiple parks nearby. Also not as many people walking around as in the center of the city. The apartment complex itself also has a large open courtyard on the ground floor which takes a human being about 5-10 minutes to walk from end to end at a leisurely pace. This space could be a pretty good area for the dog to explore since the entire courtyard is gated with grass/plants/flowers. 3. The average summer temperature would be about 32C during the day, and is slightly cooler in the morning and evening when the sun is not at its peak. Still not an "ideal" temperature for many dogs, but I will generally use the early mornings and evenings to go out. 4. In terms of the potential randomness in the puppy's temperament post adolescence - I guess there is no solution for that and it'll be something I'll have to consider seriously, since there aren't really any adult rescues around. I have been considering other breeds such as the Shiba Inu, but the Shiba is also known to be a challenging breed to train (just in a different way from the BC). It does give me a bit more confidence that I've already spent several years with one from when he was a 2 month old puppy until adulthood, so I'm not completely unprepared. 5. If I had a dog I would definitely be able to incorporate him/her into my lifestyle. For example instead of going to the gym I would just go for a run outside, which I do on a daily basis already. On weekends I usually don't plan too many activities - just a combination of exercising, shopping, walking around outside/exploring, going out for meals, etc. In general, weekends I will also have more time with the dog to play/train or take him/her for hikes & other activities. Of course at the end of the day I'll still need to have more in-depth discussions with the breeder, and also visit the parent BCs to see their temperament and how they are doing. If it turns out to really not be suitable to raise a BC, I could always go back to consider other breeds.

Hi CptJack - thanks for the feedback! To clarify, in my apartment there are only 2 units on each floor, and the unit on the same floor as mine rarely has anyone in it (the owner of that unit is an airline pilot based in a different country and is only occasionally here). This should make it a bit better in terms of noise & motion I'm thinking? Also regarding "noise, motion, and sometimes other dogs and people" - is this something that can be mitigated by more socialization and outside playtime when the BC is young? (to get them used to all these noises of being in a city environment) Or is it generally not suggested to raise a BC in a city environment? As for being a first-time dog owner, I think you've made some good points. Actually I've "partially" raised a Shiba Inu before together with my previous roommate, from when the puppy was 8 weeks old. But I'm not sure if that experience will help me much with a border collie, given the different personalities and temperaments.

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum and am currently a prospective BC owner. I've always loved BCs and have wanted to own one, but previous working/living conditions haven't made it feasible. Recently my situation has changed a bit, but I'd still like to get some feedback from you guys on whether or not my current situation would make for a happy BC. 1. Living environment: high-rise apartment, approximately 1400 square feet, in a tropical country (winter lowest temp approx. 10 degrees Celsius [50F], summer high approx. 38 degrees Celsius [100F], relatively humid) 2. Currently in-between jobs and making a career transition, so will have more time to spend with the puppy during his/her first few months for frequent potty breaks, training, etc. 3. Even after starting my next job, I expect to be able to take the dog out morning & evening for exercise (ranging from 30 min to 90 minutes each time), and also come back during noon for 30-45 minutes. My goal is to at least minimize the "continuous duration of time" that I am not at home (where the dog is alone) to no more than 4-5 hours maximum. Hiring a dog walker during the day is also a possibility. Is this enough physical exercise & socialization time? 4. In the evening in addition to exercise I should be able to spend at least 1 hour or more on mental exercise/tricks/training/etc., and of course, whatever else I'm doing will be in the dog's company as well. Is this enough mental exercise time? 5. I should be able to set up a crate/xpen in one of the spare rooms of my apartment. The apartment has a wooden floor but I'll probably put some plastic/foam-based material on top of the wood in that particular room to avoid scratches. I prefer to start with just the crate to get the dog more quickly adjusted to going to the bathroom outside of the house, but the reason I'm considering the xpen is because if I'm at work, the xpen will give the dog more space to move around. (though I am a bit concerned that BCs are too smart and will find a way to escape or jump out) If I set up a pen I'll probably also find some heavy weights to secure it in place. 6. This will be my first dog - I've done research about the breed, watched many mental training videos/guides, etc. But at the end of the day, what are the key things that a first-time BC owner should pay attention to most? 7. Many of the videos I've watched teach how to use positive reinforcement and breaking down desired actions into small steps with clicking/rewarding, etc. But as a puppy, there will surely be times when they do something that you don't like, and want them to stop. Before you are able to properly teach them the cue for stopping (or letting go/leaving it), what's the best & recommended way to stop a puppy from doing what he/she is currently doing? 8. (slightly off topic) I've seen some videos of BCs being able to use the toilet (and flush it). Is this possible for both male and female dogs? Thanks for reading and look forward to your advice!