clbmine

I am not experienced with herding, which is why I am asking this as I wish to learn more, I have only seen herding in Hungary once when I went to meet my pups father, so I am not experienced in the style used in Hungary, only from what I observed. But here are vids of my pups father working for reference to what I have seen. __________________________________________________________ Anyway, as a breed Mudi are called the "driving dog" of Hungary, in reference to their herding style. And from what I can tell, Pumi, Puli, and Sinka are also used in a similar manner, as well as Croatian sheepdogs and Pulin which are practically the same breed as Mudi. What I notice is that the breed is used mostly for moving stock, but "pushing" it in the direction desired (driving). I like this to show how they seem to be used to "push". And I like this video of a Mudi too. There are "traditional style" herding competitions as well in Hungary, to give more examples to help give a more "balanced" view if I can... And , well known (I think) Though it seems d (that many may not let near their stock at all) And sometimes they are just barking at cattle with no control. , because I haven't posted enough! _______________________________________________________ A breeder of Pumi who lives in the US trains her Pumi in a more "american style". Her lines are closely linked to lines in Hungary. She sent me these videos as a reference to her Pumi herding. ______________________________________________________ Anyway, what I see their purpose being is as a dog which stands by the shepherds side, and is used to push the livestock with a lot of speed when needed, or bring them in. They also seem able to work stock a lot more "calmly" too when needed. Such as when moving ducks. And they dont seem to use much independent thought or stock sense? I was asked how this could even be useful... And I dont really have a huge answer. They are not just used for herding, but also ratting and alerting to threats, and even hunting. So perhaps their use is not just as a herding dog, but for everything? But they are still used for herding in Hungary, and the croatian sheepdog in croatia, and the Pulin too. Unlike some other breeds, they dont seem completely replaced by border collies. I dont know if they are in the process of being replaced, but they currently at least still see use on farms.... This is from someone who doesn't know much about herding, so perhaps someone can make sense of what bits of information I am trying to put together... Perhaps I am completely wrong with my assumption and need a smack on the wrist? Thanks

I was curious, I never see any rough collies or smooth collies herding, and certainly never hear about them on serious farms. But rough collie owners and enthusiasts say the breed is a brilliant working dog, that they are not supposed to be high drive, but they all are capable of working. What is your experience with the breed working? What about compared to other breeds like aussies, english shepherds, welsh collies, etc? I also hear similar said about the corgi, that they fully capable of working because xxx uses one on their farm, or xxx has AKC herding titles... And I have not seen one work so I am interested to hear what you think about the breeds. Thankls

Hmm, in the UK at least there are indeed working bearded collies that are not BC crosses. This breeder here: http://www.spanglefish.com/brambledalebeardedcollies/ Has apparently been breeding her own line of bearded collies and never crossed them with border collies. She didn't like the direction the breed was going in so started her own lines, but I don't think her dogs work any sort of animal. I don't think that makes her dogs proper working bearded collies though, but I don't know, I'd rather ask her directly how she breeds for working ability with sheep than judge on her website. There's the working beardie society of course, which they do own dogs which are for working sheep (and has already been mentioned?): http://www.workingbeardies.co.uk/ Working bearded collies are not registered with the KC, but they do exist in the UK, and while they have been outcrossed with border collie from time to time, but I think they are still majority bearded collie. I have met some at the agility shows I have gone to, and they are so much better than the show bearded collies. They are not beardie crosses There are some videos of working bearded collies out there, but I wouldn't be sure if they really are working bearded collies and not beardie bc crosses. And there certainly aren't many videos out there at all. I don't know, I have never seen one working sheep. Either way, owners of working bearded collies seem to have pride in the breed, and so for the most part breed beardie to beardie. I guess another way to look at it would be looking at welsh sheepdogs. They may look just like border collies, and you may never even know if its actually a BC mix based on appearance, but those that own the breed try to preserve it in the way they can.

I would simply prefer to show the video through PM as a preference, not for a big reason though. I could share it in the topic I suppose... @GentleLake I gave it a search and couldn't see a forum, it would be great if there was one/

Hello, Sorry for the terrible title first off haha... Was wondering if anyone could possibly help me by sharing their opinion and insight on a certain dog (non-bc) based of a short compilation video of the dog working sheep and goats in PM? Sorry if this is a strange question, I don't really need anything indepth, just a brief overlook perhaps? Also sorry for asking a non bc related question on a bc board, but I really couldn't think of anywhere else to ask, though if anyone perhaps knows of a different forum, or someone I could contact then I could ask there instead perhaps.

Do you mean this is strange for a competition in general, or for a well known competition? Sounds like a nice environment Been to some competitions in the uk, but only some more local ones so its interesting to hear about ones abroard

Oh gosh, field bred bassets are wonderful! I don't know if this is what the average working basset is like, but by gosh is this dog actually nice looking <3 I usually dislike the look of basset hounds, but this dog looks amazing <3 Working line Dachshunds are cool too I wish working corgis existed... Id love to see some which looked like this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v485/Pietoro/Dog%20Breed%20Historical%20Pictures/Welsh%20Corgi/1929_PembrokeCorgi_ch_golden_girl.jpg Of course, there probably are some, but I don't know of any concrete lines which do, or also breed for working ability. I would love to meet a proper working/field or llewellin setter some day. I wonder what their temperament is like...

Yeah, could probably make that one myself easily if I wished I was just showing examples really of different types Ok, sounds like a good idea! I'll give it a go Thanks a lot!

Mostly the performance of the criteria I would say, and a tiny bit of a lack of understanding as well, but that is easily improved. Of course, we got to build things up a bit better, and then slowly add more stimulation there to proof his contacts... I don't know tbh. I currently don't have anything to practice simple contacts on anyway, he knocks everything over, slides off, or breaks it haha, so either way I will have to buy something sturdy for this purpose. Have very little to use in terms of resources in my house currently.

I have a problem with our contacts and need to practice. However, practicing on stools and similar do not seem to work, not only because everything we can practice on is slippery/topples over, but it doesn't translate well to A frames and Dogwalks. I am wondering if anyone knows a good seller of very small contact equipment for practice in limited space? Im thinking something like this may be good, this one may be a little large perhaps... this in half might be fine, but I am worried about it falling over (btw, not my dog, the companies dog lol, found the image off the internet) Or perhaps something like this, which looks a little smaller and could help with seesaws, but would that translate well with regular contacts? Something like that looks great, though im not sure if its the best to get? It looks like it could easily fall over, especially with how clumsy my dog is. I wouldn't want to get something which turns out to be unstable. Of course, nothing too bad if it falls over, I just think it would be better for it to be sturdy I need something that is small enough to practice at home in, as I have very limited space. Also, we have worked on stools, beds, stairs, etc and its not doing much for us. My dog is very fast so I need to try and train them as strong as I can in between lessons with. I am not looking for a sturdy box, and if I am going to buy something which I can use to train contacts on for now and in the future with different dogs also, then I would just prefer something which is a little more like the actual equipment used. Even if its just a slope the dog jumps onto. I could get a board I prop up too, but I would need to buy something sturdy to put it onto, and I really have my worries with that, with it sliding off, or breaking. He is not a gentle dog, and currently knocks everything over anyway. If anyone has any recommendations over which type would be best, or any suggestions over companies (perhaps UK companies) then it would be great! Thanks! P.S. Sorry all my posts are about agility, that just happens to be the area where I have the most questions. Sorry about that...

I guess I forgot to mention its not a BC, but a different herding breed. I guess I shouldn't have asked on a BC forum if it wasn't a BC, which I am sorry about.

Well, Mondioring is probably arguably the most difficult of the protection sports it seems. It also has an emphasis on distractions. French ring is also a protection sport. As for which is more difficult, herding or mondio, I would have no clue. By working, I mean they are from lines designed to do a specific job/activity rather than showing, and need the drive and instinct to perform it. But for herding, the mother is titled in herding (which I know doesn't mean too much), and the father has shown a good amount of natural instinct, but the pairing is not really designed specifically for herding work, I'm sorry...

They are working bred dogs, mandio is Mandioring, and ring refers to French ring. Though the parents of the litter are not overly high drive or hyperactive and are more moderate in these areas, and have a good off switch too. (just mentioning before someone suggests otherwise; im not getting a working Malinois or a dog with that much drive) You have a good point there. I would be planning on getting another dog anyway, even if I wasn't doing agility.

I believe the breeder has got some understanding of the sport due to probably seeing many of the offspring go on to compete in agility and do well, but doesn't practice it herself. However, I think her husband runs a dog which has done very well in agility and has been very successful too. The mother does mondio, and the father does ring. Its not that I don't trust my own judgement, but that I do not know enough about the individual puppies temperaments to make the decision. Its also pretty common for the breeder to choose the puppies and pair them to the individuals they would suit best anyway, often advised too.

Its not me who's selecting the pup from the litter, its the breeder. The idea is they match up the dogs which they think would have the personality that suits the potential owners and their desired activity best. for example: http://www.spritebelgians.com/philos/art4.shtml Of course it won't be the same as this, and obviously a different breeder, breed etc, with different methods, and obviously this is a very analytical way to do this, but I simply mean the the matching of basic traits to different potential owners and sports. The breeder mentioned that they would choose a puppy which would be best suited for agility, and I am just wondering what they could mean by that. They don't breed for agility, they breed for a different activity... ______________________________________ I'll be the first to admit ive never had a single problem at trials. No DA or DR, no zoomies, no lack of focus, no running of to meet the judge, no speed issues other than him going even faster, no distractions from other dogs, smells, small animals etc, and he just loves the competition enviroment, so a lot of this I forget could happen in a new dog and it doesn't cross my mind. So I am sorry. I will try to consider them much more rather than focusing on the less important factors. Both parents are fine with loud noises and can work under them, neither are timid or have a flight reactions, and they both adore to tug. The breeder has been breeding for confidence and to prevent shy behaviors, and for dogs that are friendly with strangers. Though being DR or DA could be a potential issue due to the breed (not that either parents are particularly, but its still a possibility), and some other problems could occur too perhaps, maybe ones related to a high prey drive.