SKYWALKER

I had similar issues with a rescue that is 8 years old. Would recall well unless he was really interested in something else. In 2 months I've made great progress with his new recall. Now he will recall even when his arousal is high and even after beginning a chase towards something. But there are still some occasions where it's not working - so still am training daily. I had to switch from using his name or 'come here' to a specific whistle - which is great because it seems to not call other dogs and he can hear it from further away - and had to start from the ground up. I only use that whistle for recall. The method I'm using is something called Susan Garrets Brilliant Recall. It's an online course and costs money - but maybe she has a book, not sure. Not affiliated with it other than am using it and it is working - but it's something you have to specifically work on and train every day. It's positive reinforcement based. A lot of it is focused on you becoming the highest value target in the dog's mind - always. So no matter what they are interested in, when they hear that command, they refocus back and come running to you right away.

Yeah, the agility will be low key of course. Luke was not very athletic when I got him. He would hit his head around obstacles in the house often. Especially when turning corners. He was used to being in boxes. Would fall off the bed at first because I suppose he had never been up on one. He can't catch really well. His brain map is off in terms of what he thinks he can do and what he can do - but the drive is there to try. When he pee's while lifting a leg he almost falls over. He's getting much much better at all these things, but clearly he is not the athlete he should have been - so I'm keenly aware not to overwork him with the agility stuff. It's agility for fun and mostly about just experiencing/challenging him and building our bond - and getting a bit of a workout in the meantime.. He is learning fast. Also, I do feed him ice cubes which he adores and also frozen vegetables. Thankfully, he loves those low calorie things so it's easy to supplement some of the bulk of his food - to keep him feeling full since he isn't getting full portions while loosing weight. Of course when I Google feeding dogs veggies, I see lots of opposing POV's. But I also know better. And finally, and thanks to reading silently amongst these boards, am grateful for this resource and everybody's help. Thanks a ton. I'll post a new post when I get Luke down to 45-50 lbs. Hopefully by Winter. And now a pic, in case anybody is still reading this far of Luke with my nephew who was catatonic around dogs but met Luke and after 2 days suddenly said "Mom, guess what? I love dogs now..." So, like I said when I first met him - Luke, aka Skywalker, is going to bring balance to the force....

Thanks for the agility suggestion! I have him signed up for a novice class in late September. Also, I know the pics I sent have him looking overweight, but just wanted folks to see how he was found in his outdoor pen by the rescue folks. about 5 months ago.

Donald, Thanks for that insight. Can't say it doesn't make me a little sad that he was pent up for most of his life - and knowing what might have been for him - a real working BC. Can't give him the life he should have had, but can make sure that for the rest of it he'll be healthier and happier and experiencing far more exercise and play and companionship then he ever had previously. This info, and the recommendations from others, helps fuel my fire to get his inner athlete/puppy as expressed as it can be, and even though he is eight now...

Thanks everybody!. Just an hour ago I got the whole "neat looking cattle dog!" comment. Funny. Very helpful to see other BCs with similar appearance. And advice well taken on Luke needing to loose more than 5 pounds going forward. I was able to see from a vet record when he was 2 years old that he was at 45 pounds, and he is 8 now. Will focus on getting him down to 50 and go from there. Somebody also mentioned posting the lineage in case there were any relatives here on the boards that might post any info. See below for that.

One thing I've done to get my BC to open up and play and build confidence is to play with multiple toys outdoors at the same time. It also keeps him challenged. I'll have a tug rope and a big and a smaller ball and he loves all three. But he loves the one the most that I'm interested in - so I'll distract him from one with another and throw it and let him decide how he wants to play this new game. Does he chase or do I? Do I tease him with the tug toy and then run for the ball I just threw if he didn't run (rare but happens!). And what is he going to do about the other ball? I might kick that in another direction. Or I'll play tug with him and walk over to the ball and kick it and he has an important choice to make - chase the ball or continue to play tug? He can go in either direction, but it's a balancing act based on my play with him. He has a great time and no matter what his choice, it's always the right one because we just keep playing this game and in the end he always gets to play with the toys - I don't try and dominate him or win - and we are clearly building up our bond and trust with this play. I tried normal fetch,which he enjoys, but he is much more interested and excited in playing with multiple toys at once and figuring out the dynamics of the game - which are made up on the spot based on both of our behaviors. And the physics of the toys of course. It's also fun for me. And I think that's key. Dogs are perceptive. If you are having a legitimate good time playing with them - that will compound their confidence.

So, he was at 61 pounds when I got him, down from 66+ when he was kept in a pen and/or crate at his former home and thanks to the rescue for getting him running again. Now he is at 56 after 2 months with me. But he is built solid with a large rib cage. The vet says based on feeling the fat around his ribs that he should need another 5 pounds, max. So a few more months and he should be back to a healthy weight. But unlike the other much slimmer border collies he meets, Luke is a tank. Could be because he grew up in confined spaces, not sure. I know they come in all kinds of shapes and sizes. My science mind was just curious about how appearance/behavior/genetics combine to create what we call breeds.

Hello board folks, Sounds like a weird question, but I've been a little confused about my recent adopted 8 year old BC. He has ABCA papers with lineage. And came from a BC rescue that is highly respected. And of course I'm not doubting either. But other people are. Most people we meet on walks invariably say something like 'Wow, what a nice looking cattle dog!' or 'Isn't he one of those Australian cattle dogs?' etc. Two vets, despite seeing the papers, have also said he does not have seem like a pure border collie and said something to the effect about 'grey' areas in breeding based on behavioral traits and not necessarily appearance.. I didn't really care and still don't. When running in open fields with other dogs, he hides in the grass and watches and waits to corral and is otherwise constantly herding, chasing running things in circles and so there is no doubt he is a herding dog. Very smart and sweet. Energetic still at 8, folks don't believe how old he is. Bottom line, is I don't really care at all if he is a purebred BC or a mix from whatever breeds - it's just a curiosity stemming from 8 out of 10 people thinking he's an Australian cattle dog. I've got wisdom panel DNA tests pending - but understand that's only 90% accurate. After researching that test - it appears the issue is pretty complex when it comes to breeds and traits and DNA testing. Again, it's just a curiosity, I'm not hung up on it - just a little perplexed. I imagine he might just be a unique BC that doesn't follow the traditional appearance. Anybody else have similar experiences? Attached are a few photos of Luke.

Hey Folks, I have an 8 year old rescue BC. I've posted a few times here and have learned a lot. Luke is very friendly and great with dogs and people in general - off and on leash. He has met and played/herded with (because I know play and herding aren't the same) dozens of dogs - but he is actually almost mortified by small/tiny dogs. Or it seems that way. He will meet up oftenly on a walk with a pair of small English spaniels and and he will jump frantically (on leash) and try and get away and avoid all eye contact completely with the dogs - he makes an effort to not look at them and is non responsive to any of my training commands and looks genuinely terrified. This is really abnormal for Luke because he is so balanced and well tempered normally and the dogs are not particularly unfriendly or aggressive - at least in a way that I can perceive. We might encounter 10 dogs on a walk and he is wonderful every time (except the spaniels). He also goes to work with me and recently a partner of mine is bringing his pair of Chihuhahas into the office. They are slightly barky, but not aggressive - and he is also absolutely terrified of them. I've tried walking them together in parallel on leash and they are fine - but he avoids even looking at them. They will get close and sniff pee together but when back in the office, he becomes terrified of them again. To the point that he runs around the perimeter of the office knocking stuff over trying to get away and they may not even be chasing him. This is a dog that has no problem playing/interacting with large hound dogs, other border collies, including puppies, and various other dogs, and also strangely his best friend is a Corgi. Small but stocky. I'm curious if anybody has similar experiences? I can't figure out if it's because of something the dogs did, or if it's because there are two small dogs in both examples, or if it's something from his past that I cannot know, or just something BC's don't enjoy - smaller dogs. Luke gets plenty of exercise and runs daily off leash and is very happy. Just about every dog owner that meets him asks me how I got him 'so sweet'. Which, of course, I didn't since I've only had him for a few months. Any help appreciated! Specific thoughts on how to help positively train him to be OK around these tiny dogs mega appreciated. Thanks!

Hello Folks, Just curious if anybody has used this product to help prevent ticks. I live in Virginia and do walks in/around woods. Strangely haven't found any ticks on my Luke, but have found them one on me. Luckily it was a big tick, and not the smaller kind that typically invoke Lyme disease. I'm researched the forums about Frontline but haven't seen any mention of this product. It was recommended to me by somebody who really wants to avoid some of the harsh chemicals on their dogs (fear of cancer) and who has rescued lots of dogs. http://www.cedarcide.com/product/das-domestic-animal-spray/ But I'm always so confused between the science, and the anecdotes and the reality. I just want something that protects my dog from the horrible (lyme) disease but also feel good that I'm not harming him while protecting him from this harm. I've learned with Medicine/Science - that sometimes drugs like Frontline can just 'shift symptoms' - they prevent somethings but cause other problems. But maybe that's the same with a natural approach. Confused, -Willie

Thanks Urge-to-herd and gcv-border, all of a sudden I see opportunities to use what I have. I bought a previous memory foam bed for my last BC when he couldn't get up/down off the bed - perhaps it's time to take that out of storage and cut off a section and have somebody make a cover for it. Thanks for your practical advice.

Hey Folks, I have an 8 year old BC and a large sized SUV. He gets about a dozen car rides a week. He is able to get in and out just fine, but I'd like to get a mat that is maybe 3-4 inches thick and maybe a few square feet (with a durable cover) that I keep in the car to help absorb the impact when he jumps out of the car. Getting in is no problem. I know I can get stairs, and of course eventually will like I did with my last BC, but right now I'd like to investigate materials that help to dampen that exit impact (invariable he is jumping onto concrete) - also, I'm able to lower the car a bit before he gets in/out. Just curious if anybody does something similar or has any ideas about where to purchase something like this. I've done a little research, but nothing sticks out. Thanks, -Willie

Thanks again for the good advice. Yes, one of the goals to solve by using the e-collar was to help him become less rude to other dogs and to not approach them via a powerful recall. I misused the word 'weird'. I just to be one of those folks so was just being self-deprecating, but that did not come across well. My previous BC mix was very aggressive on leash - and I always felt like the weird dog owner for avoiding all the other dogs - but I had little choice despite lots of training attempts/schooling to fix the issue. I was the dog walker that would cross streets or turn around to avoid any interaction with other dogs - or only walk the dog during certain hours when others were less likely to be out. Always scanning the horizons and looking back to see what's coming and from where. I'm sure that anxiety made the situation even worse - but was just told over and over by many trainers that he wasn't going to change. I was certainly treated like I was weird by other off leash dog owners when they did approach despite me trying to escape - so I can completely understand their POV and really want to avoid Luke doing the same to others. Based on some advice from Glen Highland and this forum, I'm definitely going to stay away from the e-collar and focus on the basic recall training - and just give it some time. I'll cut back on the off leash time until he has a stronger recall. Thanks everybody!

Great points. Just realized today that vibration only devices are way way cheaper - didn't know they existed as the one recommended to me was Dogtra - I think because it can work up to half a mile away versus some of the other brands. But still going to be cautious for now and do the training instead. Also, yes, same method can be applied with a whistle so it does seem like overkill. However, and I don't know this, but my thinking was that a remote vibration might provide a 'stronger' cue to successfully recall because it's local & physical - but that's why I was asking. Thanks, -Willie

Thanks everybody. Going to stay away from it I think and work on trust and building the relationship in the short term. But I wasn't clear in my original post. The e-collar I mentioned has two modes. A shock and a vibration only mode called 'paging' which is not a shock, but similar to a cell phone vibration. That's what I wanted to use, and that's the mode some of the folks in this neighborhood use for successful recall. So they are using the vibration when the dog is at a distance as a reminder to come back and do positive reinforcement training to support that recall with vibration. Is the issue based on the shock or even remote vibration? Thanks, Willie