SageWay

This was a topic brought up in a cattle dog group a while back. People noticing a lack of stamina and over heating more easily in recent years. I was wondering what your all thoughts are. There was some belief that this is being seen more often in trial dog lines. I have a 2 year old right now that is progressing nicely in her training. Talented young dog, very natural. But she overheats quickly limiting our training time. I do think part of her issue is she tends to be a bit intense. This is the first dog that I've really had this problem with. Just curious if others are noticing this.

Oh, also while keeping him on a lead, (he's not ready to do this on his own) we've gone into a small pen to fetch the sheep and move them through a small breeze way into the larger pen for training. This has also seemed to help him relax and I have began to feed more lead out and let him 'work'. A small bit of chores. Now, even when the sheep make a break through the breeze way he stays calm, follows at a walk then will take a lie down while I shut the gate. Most of the time we would then go right to training but now I sometimes walk him around a bit first or will tie him by the gate and do some simple chore. He's a dog that will get excited/tense with knowing what comes next - bring sheep into working pen, go to work, yippee! Constantly changing how and/or when I start training seems to have helped him relax.

Thanks for all the input. It's helped. Having outside perspective (and I know it's very hard without seeing) has given me that nudge to back away and see what was really going on with him. I think you're right Gloria, he wasn't so much fighting me as not understanding and like Liz said, the harder I tried the more he blew in and tensed up. Most of the dogs I've trained I've raised and have always from the very start introduced the concept of giving to pressure so it's never been much of an issue. I didn't raise this guy and he didn't get those kinds of lessons so of course he doesn't understand! Today I directed the stick very low towards his shoulder and backed away to send him. He was more relaxed and kept an okay distance around. I was very careful to not push on him with the stick at anytime I sent him. I did use just my hand more if he needed a bit of guidence and got some response. The only pen (due too a heavy rattlesnake season) I can train in right now is roughly 100ft. by 85ft. The sheep I'm using are pretty dog broke but will break if he amps up although I'm better at catching this before it happens. Everyone here has given me some great advice and I feel I'm in a better place to move forward. I really, really like this dog and so far this has been the only issue I wasn't addressing correctly. Thanks. Today as I said, things went better. I didn't 'push' to send him and when he would start getting a bit tense after wearing for a bit (fliping, speeding up, pushing) I'd lie him down then let him do a couple easy gathers both directions and he would fall right back into a more relaxed boy. I do want to explain that our sessions are short, between 5 and 10 minutes. And I do spend some time with him on a lead just walking around in the pen checking water across the fence, etc. before starting to work. I keep him on the correct side of me as we circle the pen with the sheep freely moving around. This has helped relax him where before he would be tense and shaking with eagerness to get to the sheep. Guess I should also explain that his owner had tried starting him but had very flightly sheep and no time to work him consistantly so as such getting him to relax has been a priority also. Sorry for so much rambling, trying to respond to everyone and give a better picture but guess I don't really need to. Everyone seems to have advice that I think will help! It's put the right perspective on the issue. Thanks for that and the support.

Thank you and I agree with what's said. Not arguing here just trying to give a bit more info. I've yet to put any commands other than lie down on him, want the movements to be correct before naming them. He covers and balances nice with my movements, we do walk abouts in several different patterns, circle both directions and very small gathers. He flanks nicely on the walk abouts, the problem arises when I'm trying to get him out around in a gather. I've tried standing beside him and also between him and the sheep. I've tried 'pushing' with a stick and I've tried backing away. I have rewarded the correct movements by not stoping him working. He just flat out ignores pressure, doesn't even blink or turn away no matter how close I put the stick. Yes, I agree these tools are powerful.......and none have gotten much reaction from him. It's like they don't exist. Thanks for reminding me I need to figure something else out or I won't have any where to go when I really need it! In my tunnel vision I forgot that important aspect. Thanks for the knock up side the head......I will go back to the start and get that solid. I think he's so easy and talented that I slipped into trying to get the give/clean flanks as we progressed. Foundation. I know that's key. As you say, back to square one with him. But may I ask has anyone had a dog that flatly refused to give even slightly to pressure? I've had varying degrees of respect/give from pressure from dogs I've worked with before but nothing like this guy.

I have a male dog, about 15 months old, in training. Nice, keen dog. However I'm having a hard time getting him to bend to pressure. He has no respect (nor fear) for pressure and I've tried several different tools, rattle pattle, rolled dog food sack, plastic sack on end of stick, stock whip (snaping/flicking), walk abouts off stock swinging a rope or stick, etc. with very little results. He's at that point in training that if he'd bend out when asked we'd be moving forward by leaps and bounds.....nice natural balance and pace, sheep tend to like him. I would appreciate any suggestions .....

Thanks everyone. And thanks Mickif for the recipe. I am certainly going to use it for myself and some of my other dogs that are aging! Jess was really struggling with balance this morning (falling to the side and tripping) so the vet (the one that practices Chinese medicine) suggested that I take her off the termeric for the next 4 days and use only the chinese supplement and see what happens. I do know that she seems happier and has more energy than I've seen in months just since starting the supplement. Before she didn't have any energy and always looked confused and unhappy. We'll see. Maybe I need add the termeric gradually. Trial and error. All I want is for the time she has left to be the best quality I can provide and traditional medicine doesn't offer that imo.

Thank you for answering. Everything I've found about it is good. I am giving her 1/2 a teaspoon twice a day, starting last night. Jess will have more blood work done in 4-5 weeks and I will be interested to see if it shows anything. I am using it more for the brain tumor, hoping it will slow that down. But it will certainly benefit her stiffness. Gentle Lake I hadn't heard about using it with peperin. Can you give me any more info on that? Should I be adding some black pepper to her diet also?

Does anyone on here use turmeric in their dog's diet? Can you give me any information such as why you use it, amount, results you see? The research I've done makes me feel good about using it, I'd just like to here from people I feel I know from reading these boards. I've just started my 12 1//2 yr. old on 1/2 teas. of termeric twice daily along with a Chinese herbal supplement recommended by a vet that I used to work for that has moved away from traditional medicine. I do feed mostly raw diet, giving a meal of TOTW once in awhile, maybe 3-4 times a month. Jessy has been my go to dog for most work here on the farm, I do run a small flock of hair, hair x sheep, and also the dog that took me to the open class in trialing, until this past fall. The end of October she had her first full blown seizure, then one in Jan, Feb. and March. Also developed a blueberry size hard mass on a mammary gland. Her blood work's fine except a low white blood cell count. The traditional vet I also use has started her on meds for the seizures but basically that's all that can be done (without spending $$$$ on tests to end up with the same results). What I'm looking for from the boards is any information on diet and/or supplements anyone has found helpful in providing as high a quality of life for as long as possible. FYI, I've lurked here for a very long time, just haven't posted much. Not confident in my written word! Thanks.

I've never posted here but have lurked for years. Thanks for wonderful topics. Brief intro: I have a small flock of mostly hair sheep that I raise for meat. I do have Border Collies 'cause I wouldn't want to do what I do without them. I have also trialed. I grew up with cattle but moved to sheep about 15 yrs. ago. Now I'd like to introduce a topic for discussion. I live in an area (central Oregon) where there are a lot of rattlesnakes. I've had several dogs bitten over the years. None have died but there has been lasting side effects. A friend's dog was totally deaf within 2 years of being bitten. A year after one of mine was bitten she was no longer able to work or run for any length of time without collasping. Neither has any genetic history of the effect anywhere in their lines. A vet that was consulted about the collapse said she was confident in saying it was caused by the bite and that snake bites will effect some system in a dog that is bitten. I know others live in areas with worse snakes than what I live with. I was wondering what others have experienced with their dogs. What you did, what side effects you've noticed. I know some side effects in a couple of my dogs weren't very noticable, they were just never the same dog. FWIW; I keep peacocks and that has helped in the numbers of snakes close in. I keep the kennels clear of all grass etc. I don't work (unless absolutely have to) dogs in the sage and high grass. And I keep Benedryl with me at all times. Oh and a side note: my sister-in-law has been bitten twice. She knows about the lasting side effects. vs