KJT

Thanks for the replies. We have been to an orthopaedic specialist who is 95% sure it is not the cruciate. Rather he thinks it is a nerve being pinched somewhere in his lower back. We are waiting for confirmation/pre-approval from our pet insurance as to whether they will pay for a costly MRI scan to determine this diagnosis.

Hi there Does anyone have any experience with a dog that shows typical cruciate injury symptoms, yet it has turned out to be something different? My 3yr old bc started occasionally bunny hoping about 3wks ago when getting up from a rest. He would walk out of it within a few strides and look fine, so I assumed maybe a muscle tweak from running at the beach. This only lasted 3days then he was fine. 2wks later he competed in an agility trial and after a few practice jumps I noticed he looked a little uneven, so i stopped And went home. He then had 2 days of looking a stiff and uneven behind and not putting his weight evenly on that leg but quickly came right. After a week of noticing some sloppy sitting (unusual for him) and still some uneven weight shifting when standing still, but no lameness at all, I took him to my vet. Two vets have seen him this week and both have said it may be cruciate but it’s not really obvious. He has been referred to an ortho specialist in 2wks and I suspect he will be sent for X-rays and maybe an MRI. Just wondering if anyone else has had similar symptoms but it HASNT been a cruciate injury??

What everyone else has said is right on the mark and unfortunately you need to make the time for your dog several times are day. BCs are a working breed, they need to be active, they need a job to do. A walk on lead 1-2x a day just doesnt cut it for this breed and sadly this is why often they dont make great family dogs. I have a 20month old son, so I do understand your position, however from the day my son came home from hospital we have ensured our bc still got the same/similar amount of activity and attention he got before babys arrival including 1 off lead walk/park visit a day (and another lead walk). Taking baby to the park or beach or river for a walk so the dog can have a run or swim. While baby sleeps I often do some training, tricks or play sessions with the dog in our yard. On the days both my husband and I work, we take turns getting up at 5:30am to walk the dogs, and then again in the evening, often just a quick 10mins at the park, but atleast its better than nothing and they get to have a run and sniff off our property. On wet or cold evenings I set up obstacle course in our living room (pillows, broomsticks on stools) and just play around with him for 5-10mins. For bcs often 5-10mins mental stimulation (tricks etc) is so beneficial. Dont give up, you just have to get creative in finding 5-10min slots throughout the day which is just 1on1 with your dog, so they know they are still a much loved and respected member of the family

Has anyone done the Nina Gregl Jumping Mania online course before? I have just seen she has new ones starting in March. I dont think my boy has a Jumping problem as such, he has followed the Susan Salo jump grids programme since 12months old. His technique is very good but he does drop the odd rail. Usually only 1 per run, but its annoying when he is consistently in the top 5 on speed!! We have ruled out pain (he has regular physio maintenance check ups). Just wandering if anyone has done this course before and whether it helped their dogs (dogs that didnt have major jump issues to start with). Thanks

Thanks for the advice and videos. I have been looking back at old videos along our contact journey (both 2o2o and running). I think possibly where I might have gone wrong is training it (both ways) in isolation i.e the end criteria then full length dw and then because he was initially successful, then assumed it would transfer to competition, yet had done very little of training it with other obstacles before or after. Therefore the added adrenaline on a course shows that we haven't proofed it well enough (or well at all!). At this stage I would like to keep trying a running dw, however if it continues to fall apart in comp, will go back to 2o20. We are about to have a month off training, so will come back with fresh minds.

Yes he stops working when asked to 2o2o. When I initially started contact training with the intention of a 2o2o, I used a touch pad to shape the behaviour on the ground first, then moved it to a plank, then slowly lifted the height of the plank. One I could go any higher safely, we moved to a full height dw, but back chaining, so not asking for a full dw, gradually moving back his distance on the dw). This is where the "shut down" came in. As soon as the speed was added, he started refusing to come down the ramp, just staying at the top, sometimes creeping down to 2o2o, sometimes just refusing to put his feet down the ground/touch pad. He has never shut down on any other obstacle. His teeter is fine, perhaps a tad hesitant as he hasn't been doing teeter long and has yet to do one in competition, but in training he runs to the end, rides it down, 2o2o and waits for a release command. I gave him several months off last year from comp and training and came back and started training a running dw using the ST method - carpet first, then plank or ground, then raising the plank, then full dw (lowered and I did backchain to start with), then full height dw. I used a clicker, rewarding for back feet separation on the bottom half of the contact area (because if he got the bottom half with back feet, this meant his front feet had touched first, so a solid hit). His success rate was nearly 100% when backchaining on a full height dw, but the misses have started happening when asking for speed again.

Hi guys, just wanting some advice/ideas on a running contact problem I am having, specifically he DW. My 3yr old bc has a 100% success rate with a running A frame both in training and competition, but he keeps missing in his DW. When he does get it, the hits are high and their is no separation in his hind legs for a true running stride, he pushes off with both, so realistically he is leaping off. Training a stopped DW is not an option..... he totally shuts down and starts creeping. I never had any intention of training any form of RC's but he dictated the running purely because of his shut down response when I tried to get him to 2o2o (my older dogs have all successfully had stopped contacts so I don't believe the training method is the reason for his stopped contact shut down - he just doesn't want to stop!). But obviously I have gone wrong somewhere in my running training and the understanding is not there for the DW. I had always used a tug or ball as his reward but have recently switched to food to see if that had any impact, but so far only a slight improvement. Any suggestions from anyone who a) has successfully trained a running dw or who has had this problem and had success fixing it. I would be keen to hear what you've tried, different methods, stride regulators, boxes, pros and cons etc

Having spoken to another trainer from our club today, we have decided to do/say nothing. The women has been offered advice about foundations but chooses not to take it (which is absolutely fine). My friend likened the situation to a Russsian or Chinese gymnastics academy (which my friend has worked in!) - they start the children in 5day a week training camps from 4 or 5yrs old. Some carry on and have great success at Olympic level by the age of 14 or 15, and some are burnt out by the age of 10. I guess it is the same with agility dogs - some have the emotional and mental stability to handle training from a young age, others don't. I only hope this lady has learnt from the mistakes made with her previous dog and keeps sessions short and fun

Thanks for those replies. This is her second agility dog (the first being a Parsons Jack Russell which she trained (and still does) 7x a week (agility training) often for an hour or more at a time - this is why myself and others are worried for the new puppy. She says she is doing 10-15min sessions with the puppy and I imagine the intensity is very high as she is very competitive and loving the drive the new pup is giving (the bc coming out in it). She is training 2020 contacts on a half sized and full sized DW. As for the chute, well I guess it is because she has one still. CptJack I totally agree with the mental/emotional maturity aspect and that I think is my biggest concern (having had 3 bc's myself and knowing that just because they can do and seem to love the high intensity work, doesn't mean they are ready for it!). I guess my main concern is not wanting to see this puppy pushed beyond its limits too soon, just because at the moment it's enthusiastic to do it all. Also knowing how competitive this women is and how much pressure her older dog gets (and has slowed down considerably or goes loopy in the ring as a result). I also realise that it's not my dog and I am purely a bystander and although competitive myself, I prefer to train for longevity, confidence and my dog enjoying it, rather than making it in to a champion by 2!

Just wanting a bit of advice or research links to possibly show a lady at my agility club who has a 16week old pup that myself and other trainers believe she is doing too much with too soon. The pup is a BC x JR. She is currently running it across contacts, through tunnels, chutes and channel weaves and working on jump wraps and sending around the back (pole on ground). She has a large property with all her own equipment, so this is not being done on club gear (we have a minimum age limit of 12months). Many club members and trainers have tried to politely tell her to focus on foundation work - toy and food drive, tricks and generally having fun with the pup (letting it be a pup first and foremost!) but she seems intent on turning it in to an agility champion by the time it is 2. Is their any research or literature that we could show her about the dangers of doing too much too soon? Or is this considered the norm these days to start them so early while their minds are like sponges? Thanks in advance

Just wanting a bit of advice or research links to possibly show a lady at my agility club who has a 16week old pup that myself and other trainers believe she is doing too much with too soon. The pup is a BC x JR. She is currently running it across contacts, through tunnels, chutes and channel weaves and working on jump wraps and sending around the back (pole on ground). She has a large property with all her own equipment, so this is not being done on club gear (we have a minimum age limit of 12months). Many club members and trainers have tried to politely tell her to focus on foundation work - toy and food drive, tricks and generally having fun with the pup (letting it be a pup first and foremost!) but she seems intent on turning it in to an agility champion by the time it is 2. Is their any research or literature that we could show her about the dangers of doing too much too soon? Or is this considered the norm these days to start them so early while their minds are like sponges? Thanks in advance

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Like Alligande, I too also have to tell people in my classes when their dog has had enough. Sometimes this might be 30mins into a 60min class. Some people take this well and then start to look for tired signs in their dog in subsequent lessons which is great. Others want to get their full money's worth and are not happy at being told their dog needs to stop with half the lesson still to go! I wish I had had an instructor in the early days that saw these signs in my old girl whilst I was still an agility newbie, as I believe I cooked her too many times in the early days, leading to frustration and me blaming the dog for something that she had was trying to tell me she had had enough. Another thing to consider from my point as an instructor having seen lots of dogs come through over the years, do you jump your dog at his full height (for your dogs size) for the whole lesson? A dog only has so many jumps in them each training session. The more full height jumps they do, the more tiring, which can lead to stress. Again when I teach, I often start at the lowest height to warm all dogs up (even the big ones), then put them up gradually. I also often lower them for the last 5mins as a cool down. I have a few dogs in my class that can only cope with 2-3 sequences at their competition height, the rest of the time we keep them low - keeps the dog happy, confident and don't tire so easily. Something else to consider?

Lots of good suggestions here, so lots of things to try differently during your classes to try and eliminate various things. A good instructor should also be able to acknowledge that not all dogs learn the same way and not all people learn the same way. That way there needs to be some give and take and trying different things with different dogs to get successful outcomes. I instruct at my local club and regularly have to change my approach depending on which dogs turn it is to attempt the sequence or activity - what works for one, doesn't necessarily work for all. In terms of my own dogs, my 2yr old bc, extremely high drive, gives 110% for everything, however... His limit for training is about 15mins of work total in a training session I.e 1-2mins work, 5mins break (tied up, crated or in a down-stay), then another 1-2mins work and so on. Any more than this and as much as he wants to try, he is too tired and his brain cannot process what I am asking. My 7yr old mixed breed also has a 10-15min training threshold. She is not high drive, but literally goes "I've done it once or twice, why should I do it again?". If I have to repeat the same thing again, she loses focus, sniffs, gets slower, wanders off etc. If I am in a class enviro, I either ask not to do repeat activities, or I simply stop after 15mins (of a 60min class). This keeps my girl happy and stops me getting frustrated (which makes us both stressed). Does your club have a suggestion box or could you talk/email the committee asking about different training methods being trailed (I.e not just WAM for weave training)? Again, what works for one, doesn't work for all - a good club should to acknowledge this. If in doubt and it's still not working for you and your dog..... Change clubs or get private instruction from someone who is patient and willing to work through a variety of methods to see which works best for your dog

Thanks for all your comments, they have been very useful - it has definitely helped with my thinking of altering the criteria to take out the nose touch ("altering or changing" as opposed to lazy training lol). Also interesting to read the experiences with training RC's. I had initially wanted to train RC (using ST's methods), but changed my mind when I decided I didn't have the time (daily), home equipment or accuracy of seeing the foot patterns. Talking to an international judge, his comments have stuck with me "if you start with a stopped contact you can always move to a running contact later on - if it turns to s**t, you have the stopped one to fall back on. However if you have taught (or tried to teach) a RC contact from the start, especially with no training previously, you can stuff up the contact for good and forever be in the category of 'run and hope for the best'". I found them wise words!!!