BC Novice

This is my take, and I am admittedly a novice and know little. His text messages clearly state he did not know the pups DOB or was 100% sure of the sire. But he sold it registered and filled in his best guess on the ABCA papers. Per what i saw in the ABCA rules that is clearly now acceptable. A 'guess' on the paperwork is falsification. And breeding in such a way that you don't even know the dam was pregnant and who the sire is? It seems pretty clear cut to me, Correct me if I am wrong. The ABCA Board has adopted the following rules for dealing with registration violations: Any member who submits a false statement or falsified document to the Association, who violates the By-Laws or Rules of the Association, who fails to cooperate in the investigation of a complaint by the Association, who assists another to circumvent disciplinary sanctions imposed by the Association, or whose practices in the breeding of Border Collies are such as to otherwise impair the reliability of the records of the Association, shall be subject to discipline by the Association, including censure, loss of all registration/certification privileges, and suspension or expulsion from membership. Any attempt to assist another to circumvent disciplinary sanctions, if done by a non-member, shall be grounds for denial of membership, and for declining to process any registration or transfer paperwork submitted by or on behalf of that non-member.

I have the papers. It was a phone conversation. He did sell the pup as ABCA registered and guessed at the DOB and sire. I sent the papers to the ABCA too. He later decided to sell it as registered because he thought she was a good pup and 99% sure who the sire was with NO DNA. For $500 more then unregistered price, which I paid.

One of the pups had hair loss on it's tail. He took it to his 'country vet' and was told to put iodine on it. When I got it I fiund gunk in it's ears. Took it to the vet and he put the gunk under the microscope. Ear mites and that's what the loss of hair form from. Ear mite mange. I had to treat all 5 dogs, including my 4 others not from him. He sold the pup ABCA registered. I sent actual screen shots to the ABCA. Now they say they are investigating. He did DNA on another litter becuz when the pups were born they didn't look like he thought they should from the sire he thought the dam was bred to. DNA confirmed it was not the breeding he thought it was. I now wonder if anything he says is true. Yes I have the ABCA papers. Here are his text messages on this, my notes in red I been giving some thought on doing DNA, it needs to be done before she Leaves, be hard to do DNA with parents here and her there This clearly states the breeder is not certain of the sire if he wants to do DNA And I don’t have a rock solid birthday on her. I have a shop in my barn that the kennels back up to and they have some holes in the kennels where they go through to get under the floor and where it has been so hot I let them go because it is so cool under there. I went to feed one evening and heard pups under the floor but couldn’t find them and that was the last time I heard them. Ann was out playing with the rest of the dogs so I thought she let them die. And it went 2 weeks or more and I found them. Their eyes were open and they were healthy as horses. That’s the main reason I was selling not registered. I am 99% sure who the sire is, but there is always that 1% chance. Brock don’t get with my other dogs so I know she isn’t inbred. Here the breeder admits he was going to sell unregistered because he is not sure who the sire is. FYI, all his dogs, over 18 of them, run together all day. From what he has told me, he puts one up if he thinks it is in heat. The breeder sold the pup registered and guessed at the sire by the looks of the pups. He did not even know the Dam was pregnant. So he did not witness nor plan the breeding. Brock is another stud he has.

I did: I don't think you understand. I sent you screen shots of text messages from the breeder where he clearly says he is not 100% sure of the pups DOB or the sire and was thinking about selling the pup unregistered for that reason. But he sold the pup registered anyway and guessed the DOB and sire. Those screen shots are proof positive that he put information down on the registration papers that were guesses. Per your rules, that is clearly falsifying information.

As I said I included in my letter to the ABCA screen shots of texts from the breeder where he says he is not 100% positive who the sire is or the DOB of the pups. The ABCA wrote me back: I am sorry to learn of your problems. ABCA is not in control of the situation you describe. You chose this person to continue to do business with. I hope you can work it out perhaps with the use of your attorney. Thank you for your inquiry, Debbie Bailey American Border Collie Association www.americanbordercollie.org

I have emailed the ABCA and included screen shots from the text messages from the breeder. Everything I said in this post is documented in the breeders own words in texts )not positive who the sire is, not sure when the pup was born etc). We shall see if they care and do anything. No I don't have littermates or 4 of his pups 14 weeks from this breeder. Liz, check your email please. .

The youngest is just 14 weeks.

No problem Sue. I get it and admire your tenacity in protecting the breed from people like me, who have no business breeding. :-) I wish I would have read the 'read me first' before I purchased the pups. I made my purchases on the fact they had some imported lines with a fancy pedigree. They have no accomplishments of their own. I love the pups and am doing everything I can with them. Hopefully one of them, really does have some good herding instinct.

I purposely made my name BC Novice for that reason. Same reason my first sentence was admitting the mistakes I made. No, I would never breed. I have no interest in it and from everything I have read and now know, I only want this wonderful breed to do well with good breeding. I would also want to make sure this breeder doesn't keep doing this. Thus my question. What can I do?

I am new to the BC world and have made some mistakes in purchasing pups. I purchased a ABCA registered border collie form a breeder last year. I was told by the breeder that they went into the barn one day and heard puppies under the barn floor. A few days later they noise stopped and they assumed whoever had the puppies (later they knew but said the bitch never showed she was pregnant) had left the puppies to die. Weeks later a pup, the one I purchased, came out 'as strong as a horse' per the breeder, The breeder said she couldn't be sure about the day the pup was born and was 99% sure who the dad was. The breeder has many dogs and they are all kept together, The breeder says he tries to separate them when one comes in heat. No DNA was ever done on my pup. She did offer to sell me the pup without papers since she wasn't sure, but I wanted papers. Now I have them but don't think they are valid...just guesses. Recently the breeder had 4 more litters. When the pups were born the breeder had to do DNA on one litter because the pups had smooth coats and the sire she thought it was never produces medium coats. I have 4 pups from this breeder now and I am not sure of anything now. After this I am now concerned the pedigree on my dogs papers isn't valid. It may be but there are no real records. I saved all the text messages from the breeder where everything I have said is documented. What if anything do I do?