madrose124

It could be that she is the result of a border/whippet type cross?

Oh, and just saw your update! Good work! My suggestion still stands! Maybe it'll help fine tune the rest

Looks to me like you should try some frisbee or flyball and you need to determine a way to make a walk, her job. Clearly she has no desire for a leisure stroll, but if you can put her to work on a walk you may accomplish much! And if safe to do so, try biking with her. But she strikes me as a flyball dog.

As an owner of a bc, Aussie, and a Rhodesian ridgeback...I can say that there is definitely a difference between protection, aggression, possessiveness, anxiety & being a watch dog. My Aussie (mini), great watch dog. Barks first usually. Acts tough but I imagine would run and bark from an intruder. My bc, is similar. I have seen her be more protective of me on walks towards other dogs. She's choosy, calm dogs she's ok with, barkers on the other hand she rather charge at. Now my ridgeback. He'd easily have an intruder by the jugular. He's not overly protective nervous, on walks etc, but with the situation arrives, he goes in. My other dog got attacked once by a loose dog in a park, he went in and ended that fight real quick. He also jumped in on a friends dog who was jumping all over my son. And once in the dark he came charging at me while holding a trash bag. Good thing he realize it was me. And he nearly ripped down a chain link fence because a coyote was eyeing my chickens from the other side. Now, when not on guard mode, he sleeps all day and is a big dumb softy. My mom calls him scooby do lol. Point being... A guard dog will render an intruder. A watch dog will make alarm but little else. Fortunately watch dogs are good deterrents.

Sounds like things are going well. As I'm sure you know, make sure your recall is 100% proof before you off leash around distractions. Best of luck! The teenage age is harder too I find. Reliability comes with maturity.

So i run a small organic farm, and I have been using herbal dewormers and remedies on my goats specifically. My BC Kelty has had bouts of loose stool and diarrhea irregularly. Last month it took weeks. I finally ordered "GI Soother" from Fir Meadow LLC, and gave it to her (I ordered it for my goat) and mixed with with the all creature herbal dewormA, and litterally that same day is stopped. She started again last week and I gave it to her right away. Stopped it in its tracks. Love the stuff and it comes in the mail SO fast.

She does have good eye & crouch, although she uses it mostly when playing with my aussie LOL. But I hope to take her to some sheep herding lessons soon. I have had issue with her catching chickens, yet she ignores them completely when I am around. She thinks (the free range) that they belong near their pen, so when I have caught her with one, she usually grabs one that squats, but she never hurt one. But sure did get into lots of trouble for it! We had to put up a fence to keep her from doing that when I am not out there with her. But really, she's been great. Even still. She follows me like my shadow, I mentioned it in another thread because she even trips me up with her head between my legs sometimes LOL. She listens at the drop of a hat. So far, she hates car rides. And likes to bark at the barn cat. Or my horse (which she also got no nos for). I would say her level of intensity has gone up, but she sure has a great can do attitude, sometimes shutting down if she doesn't know what Im asking of her. she's also really protective of me. She's pretty much border collie through and through. She listens SO well. Super smart. Brave and driven, yet kind of sensitive to the point I have to lower myself to get her to do some things. She just wants to please. The most surprising thing I would say is her energy level. While she can go on forever, she doesn't drive us insane. Maybe because she has enough jobs out here and a play mate to run with, I dont know, but my Aussie defintiely is more high energy than she. My only disappointment is her total lack of any toy drive thus far.

I've had the opposite experience. I have to remember to let mine have supervised opportunities to drag the leash with her around the farm, because she "shuts down" aka lays as close to the ground and she possibly can, the second she felt any tension on the leash. She finally got to the place where she drug it while following behind me, and then now i can usually hold the end of it and convince her to follow me despite her feeling any tension. It's slow going, mostly because I havent worked on it as often as I should. I call her my shadow dog, since she follows my heels so closely i sometimes strip on her head between my ankles LOL. I think a lot of it has to do with personality. I cannot imagine her ever wanting to pull me anywhere. My aussie on the other hand pulls fairly decently when we started training. But I just teach them to stop the moment there is any tension and generally change direction. Each dog has it's own personality and its own "better way" to learn. as far as corrections, i make sure to balance reward markers with negative corrections. My husband is the worst at this, as he still doesn't get how a dog thinks. Dogs need to be rewarded for the correct behavior (even in baby steps) moreso then corrected, but I dont believe in lacking corrections at all...otherwise your dog will quickly walk all over you. There's going to be the proper level and intensity of correction, as always, timing is key. As well as management. As I learned when i got my obedience trainer cert, if your dog is failing more than 80%, then you need to go "back to basics" and ask less, setting up the dog to succeed, so that they truly learn what you are wanting from them and build from there.

here's an updated photo! 8 months old ~

No Worries. She's still young and loves to pick up bad habits from my other dogs. My ridgeback is the one who taught her to run the fence line. I had him before I had my farm, and he is true to his breed character and loves to "Bay" large animals per his breeding. He generally ignores the horse but she runs around like a wild mustang when I go to bring her hay. And that's when he would run at the fence. Getting in trouble every time. But, the behavior persists. I guess he can't help his genes. For that reason we fenced in our back yard and he no longer is allowed out when I feed. And of course, Keltie learned that behavior from him. At least SHE responds when I tell her no. Did I mention I'm over puppies? LOL. But now that we have fences and more control of the situation, they've all behaved rather well. I look forward to seeing how she works sheep. I may wait a few more months. She's so sensitive sometimes and not others. I can't really predict how she would behave. Would she sit behind me the whole time not wanting to do anything wrong,or will she go charging around? Borde Collies these days

Good advice. Although I live in an arid climate, last years rainy season was three months long. We're constantly changing things around. A lot of what you do depends on what species you plan to get. I think ideally for me, I'd like to have a central barn location with pens that split out from it in quadrants. That way all animals could come in to the same place at night, same central feed and water area, and easier to lock them up (predator proofing). I can't tell you how many times we've rearranged over and over. I can say this, don't skimp or cheap out on fencing. You'll live to regret it. Horse fence the perimeter at the very least. Welded wire just about last a month.

For the record, I don't "let" my dog work my horse. In this situation my horse had busted past me through the gate (because ironically she's attached to my goats and they were grazing weeds). My dog just happened to be with me while this happened and as I was trying to get the horse turn get back in her pen Keltie stepped up. Of course I understand the danger a horse can do. This is not something I allow to happen or wish to promote, but it happened on accident which led me to believe she might be ready. The rest of her barking at the horse stuff is along the fence line, not in with the horse and I call her off whenever she is caught doing it. If recently switched things around so she no longer has access todo even that. As for my goats, most of them are super easy to work with a dog other than the current herd queen who does occasionally offer a challenge (she head butted at my ridgeback once---he thinks they are dogs, she knows better that he is no goat), but that's only if the dog gets close enough. I have done my darnedest to raise her as a farm dog, around my farm animals without her having any negative experiences. I'm really curious what she would do with sheep. Maybe in a month or so I can get her out to the trainer. For now, I've found the mere presence of my Aussie sends my goats running for their pen. So that helps. Patience is a virtue Ido not have. Thanks for the tips.

Is it possible to correctly train my dog certain cues used to work animals without sheep? I am sure it is, but how? We have a mini farm. I have chickens and ducks, goats and a horse. I have access to a herding instructor with sheep and hour and a half away. I want to get a few lessons there but for now I need to focus on practicality. Here's my situation. I have a rescue bc pup, now 8 months old. She exhibits herding behaviors when chasing or playing with my other dog (stalks, crouch, eye etc). She now has taken to herding my horse into her stall. Now I have been good at letting her be exposed to the farm animals without being in danger or risking them turning on her. She started behavior along the fence, but the other day I had a break out situation with my horse and I was corralling her back in and Keltie (my pup) ran up and barked and very convincingly turned my horse around and put her up. I believe she is from cattle dog stock because of the area she was found....a dirt road in a cattle ranch town (and one very large commercial sheep farm). But just the way she is with my horse leads me to believe she has a preference for larger livestock. Anywho, I really want to teach her to go left or right, come by away etc, because she could help me bring the goats in. As it stands, I have tame goats and ones not yet ready for me to lead them. And babies. I find myself in the situation where I get half my goats in their pen, have to shut the door so they don't run out while I get the others but then face the problem that when I have to open the gate they dart off, and occasionally the others escape go if I opened it. Her presence seems to help---sometimes---but because she follows me at my heels it's also a hindrance because they won't walk past her. I have her sit away, but it's not useful either. I understand goats aren't the best starter flock, but I'm just wondering where to start to get her to follow certain herding commands so I can bring the animals in. Sorry if it's confusing, but here I am, finally with a dog old enough to start some training IMO. The tasks are rather easy. I live on 1.5 acres and my goats don't have horns, and although they are used to my dogs now and not quite as flighty as they were when I got them, they are also not too stubborn with the dogs. Before when I had rams (babydoll Southdown), those guys were much harder to persuade.

Well I guess all the same could be said for a failed herding dog as a failed agility dog, depending on how competitive you plan to be. getting a puppy in general is a gamble, and you can at best increase your odds by choosing proper breeding. most BCs I know dont get tested on real stock till 8 months. Agility doesnt really amp up until the dog is 1 (with puppy foundation)...time is the only way to tell either way.

At the risk of repeating what everyone else has said, and the probability that the OP isn't reading this... I'll try to put it simply. "True" Border Collies are bred to herd sheep. They do not have a breed or appearance "standard" for this reason. Health & workability are the ONLY factors considered in a quality breeding pair, all extras, color, ears, coat, size, are very VERY secondary. That is what a border collie is intended to be. A herder. Now, even from the best "workingest" dog pairing, you will still have a few pups in the litter with either a lack of herding drive, or a personality type making them ineffective at herding. Those dogs should be placed in pet/sport homes. The AKC is an organization that has put SO much emphasis on appearance of ANY dog breed in the show ring, that in order for these dogs to win they are going to be bred to look a certain way, and over time the "look trends" change, and inevitably the dogs get fluffier poof coats and bigger bones---all the while NO CARE for working ability is considered. At which point, true border collie people, will not see these dogs as ACTUAL border collies--only look alikes. The AKC already ruined the Australian Shepherd as a working dog, many of us here do not want to see the same happen to the border collie at the hands of AKC. Therefore, few here will recommend buying any border collie bred from AKC stock...as with AKC these dogs will have been bred for appearance for generations, all the while losing the working ability that made them what they were. So the real question is, do you want a real border collie (and even a puppy from a border collie breeder that would be best suited for sport--as I mentioned, there will always be some from a litter that are not suited for livestock work) or do you want a dog that kind of has the colors of what most think a border collie looks like?

thanks everyone She is a sneaky little tri isn't she? Just a hint of it. She's starting to turn on to stock too. Oh boy!

and another

Our rescue pup is now 10 weeks old, we've had her for 2 weeks. I am so happy with her and she is just a doll. She listen's so well, is great with new people and kids, and loves wrestling with my aussie. Can I just say how good it feels to have a dog that truly loves learning SO much? My ridgeback is a hound, willing to please most of the time, but still a hound and can be stubborn. My aussie, although smarter than he, is the obnoxious kind of smart that basically reminds me of a teenage girl "make me want to do it" attitude. So, so far 2 stubborn dogs, which I have grown accustomed to dealing with.... But this girl, she's a dream. She learned down in 10 minutes, sit the next day, and shake in seconds. She even works for dog food when the bowl is full sitting right next to her! So happy to learn and ready to work. LOVE IT. Just love her! We named her Kelty

4 years ago I did extensive research on the matter (history degree, with far too many how to research classes behind my belt) and came to the conclusion that I would feed grain free. For me, it's the quality of protein and nutrition that my dogs get in a grain free food. There will always be different opinions on the matter, but the way I see it, I want their primary food source to be a grain free food. Otherwise you are wasting much of the food as their bodies do not process it quite as well. For this reason I also do not feed any chicken based dog food. Yes, dogs can have grain or protein allergies---more commonly corn, soy, and chicken. I know some stores that carry kangaroo meat based food for dogs with allergies! I have a wheat allergy, specifically durum wheat. It reaks havoc on my stomach. If I so much as mix a spoon in the wrong pasta pot, I will be down for hours. When I did research to first find out was going on (I had chronic rashes and toe infections during this time) I found how our human bodies are not designed to process as much grain as we eat in the american diet. A majority of people have underlying sensitivies to wheat, grain, and soy. It manifests in inflamation for one. They believe it may be one reason why cancer is so prevalent. As for corn...it's yummy to eat but check you poo the next time you eat it, our bodies pull very little nutrient from corn. I don't really have the time right now to go refind all the research and studies and modes of thought on the subject, but that was my determination. Now, do I think my dog will get cancer and die because she ate the bread off the floor? No. I still eat snickers even though I am fairly certain it's 99% fake food. Moderation is key, and for those that feed primarily commercial dog food, feeding anything but grain free will not be feeding grain "in moderation".

Ok, maybe I should be more specific (as I was trying to rush my reply because my husband was giving me the "hurry and go get ready" stare). When I say they don't believe in correction, I'm not talking just physical correction, I mean, they tell me they don't even say "eh" or "no"...Like, they just think that ignoring behaviors cures all things. This lady also "read dogs" so there's that. Kooky people are everywhere I guess. And by not letting dogs on couches on beds, then I am specificallly talking about people starting them out with them having run of the house from day 1 and/or those with clear dominance issues on the part of the dogs, and unknowingly (at first at least) allowing the dog to assert it's spot on the couch or bed for example, and the people moving out of the way for the dog. Sure, it might fly by ok for a 5lb maltese, but not any dog much larger. That's what I'm talking about. By approve, I meant I prefer it treated as a privilage and not a right. The dogs should slowly be rewarded more freedom throughout a new home IMO, otherwise many more dominant type personalities will quickly determine the humans are at their beck and call and it's all trying to play catch up from there on. My dogs don't sleep on my beds, because my husband prefers it that way, and he does not want them on our couches, but they have their own beds and sofas, and I have my own pillows I like to sit with them. Compromise I suppose LOL. Anyways, that's what I meant. I rarely ever do a physical correction on any dog. Most of it is verbal and timed properly, and I consider myself a postive rewards trainer who is not hung up on being all bublly and how maybe refusing a dog a treat is cruel and inhumane (I'm telling you, I've met some interesting trainers I guess...)

I am only a newbie trainer, but with my training/rescue experience/ and shadowing other various trainers/my own intuition so to speak, I believe the best training of your dog will be done with the proper balance of postive rewards AND "dominance." There are people who are all gung ho about both, but a dog should both learn to enjoy working for you and find that obeying is rewarding, BUT they should also respect you as the leader and learn to trust your guidance. I do not condone letting dogs on the couch or the bed for example, not until they have all ready mastered the basics at the very least, nor do I believe that people should carry treats with them everywhere. Work to capture your dog in positive behaviors and reward him accordingly (petting, praise, etc). Ignore the bad behaviors. If they are not as easy to convince, then they need a more firm approach. My dogs work for treats, petting, play, and once they have learned my commands then they are expected to do it regardless of true reward. Timing of correction and reward is key. I do not approve of the postive rewards only trainers who absolutely REFUSE to correct a dog--it's like the new philosophy of child rearing that telling them "no" is going to mess them up psychologically. No, we all need boundaries. Those kids are gonna grow up to be sociopaths. Basically, I want my training sessions to be fun and rewarding, but I also do not appreciate it when my dog darts through the door before me for example. I always have to work on my dominance because I am a sucker, I'll admit it haha. Dominance doesn't mean you have to be mean and rough with a dog to get them to listen. Positive rewards doesn't mean you always have to be their most bubbliest best friend. You have to find the proper balance for YOUR dog's personality. Some dogs need more of one over the other. Definitely find a good group obedience or private obedience trainer in your area for some helpful guidance---even if it's learning from someone's elses experience in the class. There is ALWAYS something to be learned. We all have our own sets of tools and experience, why not share and learn? On the Cesar Milan things--I think he is agreat guy that means well. He's done good and bad for dog owners. He's taught people that you truly can spoil a dog the wrong way. That dogs are NOT human babies. I particularly like his work with fearful cases because he teaches people not to coddle their dog's fear. He has good work on energy and how to control his energy with dogs regardless of the situation. The bad is that MOST people do not read dog body language well, they do NOT understand timing and HOW important it is to training a dog, NOR do they have good control of their energy. So it some cases it translates to a lot of people yanking on leashes at the wrong time over and over etc etc. If HE were to train all dogs, I wouldn't have a problem...it's they every day person that doesn't know what they are doing that could really mess things up with his methods. And I agree--don't compare to littermates! It's like comparing your children! They all have their own drives, personalities, energy levels, etc.

I'm so sorry. There's a dog out there for you! Big hugs!

the way I hold treats for snappy dogs is under my thumb on and open palm, almost like you would a horse. I found a youtube video of a guy doing it so that you can see it because it's kinda hard to explain.

Imagine leaving a 2 year old toddler alone in your home for 4-5 hrs, unsupervised. Yeah. I believe in crates (not for toddlers I should clarify LOL)

Wheat, corn & soy are bad for HUMANS. I'm not sure how it could be any better for a carnivore. I'm not saying you should never ever ever let them eat the stuff (my dog treats aren't usually grain free) but I will never feed a dog food with grains like that in them. Especially since most of those foods, it is the primary ingredients. I've read studies that show otherwise. But I don't feel like searching for them now. Nobody even used commercial dog food up until after WW2, it's just a way of getting money for the "extras" left over.