NJSwede

Thanks! We're just not used to having to deal with vet issues. All our other dogs are Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and they have one thing in common: They are absolutely fearless. Lack of fear is even part of the breed standard for cavs. So going to the vet has never been an issue. They more or less jump up on the table and greet the vet with a wagging tail. Border Collies, apparently, not so much. At least not our girl. She's just very emotional about everything and she's decided that the vet is the scariest thing there is. We'll work on it. She's such a great girl and she deserves anything we can do to make her experience less traumatic.

I have nothing to add other than that the full body wag at the end of the clip put a long lasting smile on my face!

I guess she must be reading the Border Collie forums, because today she hasn't been hiding at all for the first time in weeks.

BCjetta, One thing I've learned over the years is how amazing dogs are at picking up small cues and associating them with things. We once had a boxer who would know days in advance when we were going to our cottage. He had figured out that when we were getting certain clothing and other things out of the closets, it meant that a trip was imminent and he got extremely excited (read: a pain to deal with...). Of course Seanna can't tell time, but I bet there's some minute thing in our behavior at that time of the day she picks up and somehow associates with whatever negative experience it is she's dreading (I'm still leaning towards the vet). Next step is going to be to desensitize her to the vet. I think setting up practice trips is the way to go. Since we have four dogs, we're regulars at the vet and I'm sure they'll help us set it up.

Well... I just gave her a tasty rawhide bone and she's happily chewing away upstairs. This is the time of the day she would normally go into hiding. Maybe she'll eventually forget about it if we keep doing this...

...and now, right on time, she came out of her hiding, put her paw on my lap and gave me that "Well? So? Is anything fun going to happen soon? Dad? Dad? Please?" kind of look.

Hi! It's been a while! A few weeks ago (maybe six) we took Seana to the vet for some routine shots. It didn't go well. She was trembling with fear and wet herself all over the floow. For some reason, that trip to the vet traumatized her deeply. After that, she now spends the hours around noon-time hiding in the basement. She lets us approach her and greets us happily, but she does not want to be removed from her spot, presumably because she's afraid we're taking her to the vet. It's very difficult to get her to leave the house at these times, even if it's for fun activities, such as walks or training. Once we get her out and into the car, she's fine and enjoys her activities. Also, she's totally fine in the morning and in the late afternoon/evening and willingly joins us for walks or even trips in the car. I can't think of any other explanation than that she's associating someone bringing her out of the house at that time of the day with her scary experience at the vet. Kind of fascinating that she understands what time of the day it is in that case... Other than this behavior, she's perfectly fine and interacts normally with the family, has good appetite and enjoys playing with the kids. Should we just wait and hope it goes away? I've tried to bring her out with high-value treats, but she's not interested. Is my presumption that this is correlated with the trip to the vet correct? I can't think of any other bad experiences around that time. Oh, and she's a rescue, so God knows what other experiences may be hidden deep inside her mind.

...not to mention that it appears this breeder was hearing noises from under a barn floor and did nothing to check on the health of puppies or bitch and basically left the puppies for dead. Doesn't sound like a humane and responsible breeding to me...

I had to revisit this post and admit you're right. Humans are a lot dumber around dogs than I thought. I was searching for something completely different when I came across this: Extra moron-points for "look, he's smiling"

I've been thinking while I was shoveling snow. Yeah, I think I misinterpreted Sandysfarm's post to be a bash on beginners/pet dog owners in general when it was a bash on certain people who think they and their dogs are the best stock worker material on the planet. I get it now. I think I can exclude myself from that group as I have a little bit of dog experience (tracking/searching/obedience with Boxers) and have spent a lot of time around sheep (my parents bought a farm when I was a young adult). That said, I'm smart enough to understand what works and what doesn't. As for our own attempts at "herding", I think we know very well that we're not going to reach the top echelon, nor do we think that our random rescue dog is the perfect material to work with. But we're having fun, learning truckloads of new things and nobody gets hurt. Not sure there's anything wrong with that.

I had a good night sleep to I'm fine again!

Wow. Just wow. I think I need a break from this place for a while. But at least I know that as a the owner of a pet Border Collie from unknown lines (since it's a rescue), I'm an imbecile who thinks my dog is the best herder in the world because it's black and white just like some dog I saw on youtube. Just wow!

I don't know. I just heard about someone who refused to give her dogs rabies-vaccine because "rabies can be cured by thoroughly cleaning the wound", so you and I may be more alike than you think. There's some pretty amazing stupidity out there. But I digress...

I was "reprimanded" on this board a while ago for saying something about my dog "herding" other dogs and "treating them like sheep". Let me make one thing clear, I may not own a farm or do professional stock work and I'm very new to this breed, but I'm not stupid enough to think that my dog believes that cars, joggers and children are sheep. Nor do I think most "commoners" (as opposed to stock dog nobility) are that stupid. My dog can recognize every dog in the neighborhood and knows where they live. She can also identify the breed of unfamiliar dogs (as in "collie dog- friend, retriever or labradoodle - must be get a good barking). Of course no one who's ever seen a dog do those things will ever be stupid enough to think a bicycle is a sheep. When I was talking about my dog "herding" another dog, I simply meant that her motion control instincts kick in and her behavior in some ways resembles some of the behavior a dog who works sheep exhibits (staring, crouching etc). I know you're a nice bunch of people who want to help, but I don't see the need to bash people for using the wrong terminology.

Thanks! That was the best summary of the issue I've seen. I guess I was under the false impression that these hybrids were all bred from a single line (or a few lines) of ancestors. Makes sense now!

Aren't all purebreds the result of someone's breeding experiments generations ago? Not sure I understand the urge to hate on cross breeds in general. If they produce unsound dogs, that's one thing. But I don't understand why the phenomenon itself needs all the rage it receives.

Not much to add, but be sure to check out these stories for inspiration: Kelso: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=31080&hl=kelso&page=1 Dexter: http://www.bordercollie.org/boards/index.php?showtopic=35956&page=1 Dexter is still work in progress, but I absolutely love to read how his owner is working so hard to rehabilitate this wonderful dog. One of my favorite threads on the Internet. Period. Good luck with your dog! I'm sure that inside that abused shell is a wonderful dog waiting to come out! Don't give up!

Nevermind... (Deleted)

I hope I can convince my wife to post something about her experiences as a novice stock dog handler-in-training. What started as "wouldn't it be cool to see if she has any herding instinct?" has turned into a true passion in just a couple of months. She's even toying with the idea of entering trials... Honestly, after watching that horrible video that was posted here a while ago, we had to sit down and talk about whether we were doing the right thing. But this is not "let's have her chase sheep for an hour so she won't bother us" kind of thing. Both my wife and our dog are on a path together to better understanding livestock and it's touching to see the bond it's building between them! I think that passes the test of "learning meaningful livestock management" as opposed to "mindless chasing", so I'm fully supporting them!

MUST... RESIST... URGE... TO... RESCUE.... ANOTHER... DOG!!!!

Exactly! GHF has nothing to gain from lying about it. From what I've heard, animal rescue organizations are constantly overcrowded and underfunded. Why would they lie to get more dogs and have to take on more cost?

That report was tough to read! The lack of shelter seems to have been just the tip of the iceberg. I hope most of the dogs can be rehabilitated to the point where they can be adopted by families that can give them the love they deserve and that this so called "breeder" get the (harsh) justice they deserve...

I'm the newbie here, so sorry for asking, but how can they possibly think that they're doing something right and don't deserve to be shut down? Poor animals.

That just made my day! Who can be in a bad mood after watching that?

Thanks! There are two reasons this interests me: I'm a nerd and anything scientific interests me, but I also have a situation woith my own dog I need to apply some training methods to... I need to start working on a plan to work on some mounting aggression problems with Seana. When we got her (rescued at 2 yo) she was very submissive and simply avoided any dog she didn't like. Now she's coming out of her shell and she's starting to be pretty nasty to some of the neighborhood dogs. I can't figure out if she's asserting dominance that was masked by the stress of settling into a new environment or if it's fear aggression. But it almost sounds like you're saying the pairing of approaching dog/nice treat/pleasant feeling would work in both cases.