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Zach

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Everything posted by Zach

  1. Shocking, well, not entirely shocking update: "Marj the dog trainer" was arrested for over 100 counts of animal cruelty. I am SO glad that we got Lily the heck out of there on day one (minute five), but there are still many reviews online singing her praises and her "firm" training style. What a horrible person. I hope that, at the VERY least, this indictment will mean she never has access to the pets of others again, and cannot teach people that hurting you dogs is a viable approach to training... but you just never know if the state will do much on these sort of things. Here's the story: TCSO: Over 100 Animals Found Inside Woman's Home Woman with hundreds of animals in reportedly filthy home arrested on cruelty complaints
  2. They're pretty quick, so maybe this won't matter. But, I solved my dog's occasional unbuckling by using a second seatbelt leash that clips to the first one. That way, she has to unclip both to get out. And, because my other dog lays down on the other side of the car seat, she doesn't have access to the other buckle. The last thought, in some newer cars there are seat belt-like buckles behind the seat to secure a car seat for kids. You might just try clipping or tying into that and threading the leash up between the seats of you can.
  3. Today we took Lily and Zorro to see their "cousins," two happy labradoodles of a family member. Lily hasn't met them, but today was a warm day, they have a pool, and Lily has become very social at the dog park, so we went for it. I walked her around the block and my wife walked the younger, more mobile doodle and we met on leash. I remember thinking to myself, "wow, her loose-leash skills are really improving after just a few days of training with treats." When they met, there was a short uneventful hello and we all happily returned to the house with the pool. Lily couldn't care less about the pool, but demonstrated her remarkable tunnel vision when it comes to squirrels when she tried to jump OVER the pool (rather than around it) when she saw a squirrel on the other side of the yard! To her credit, she made it about half way, and she seemed embarrassed but exhilarated by it once she got out. Soon after, she found crevice under the fence, crawled under, and went for a solo run around the neighborhood looking for squirrels. She ran partway through a pond after one, on the other side, and then eventually I caught up with her when she saw something through a chainlink fence that she couldn't scale. She never did come to me, perhaps sensing the anger I was trying to hide under my sweet pleas to come. My wife finally caught her and we went back. It's been several hours now, and she keeps wanting reassurance from me, but I find it hard to want to provide that, and afraid to be close enough to her that she senses my irritation. I think we've been taking too much comfort in her other progress, so that we've put off "leave it" and other impulse control training in the hopes that some of that will be easier to manage as she acclimates and matures in this new life. I think we need to put more focus onto that sort of training. What a bummer, it could have been a pretty fun day.
  4. That is very intriguing! I read that and tried it right away when a loud plane flew over. I think Zorro's play snaps were probably more effective than my "it's a plane!" In a goofy voice. But, in any case, she came out from hiding. I'll keep playing with that idea. Thanks!
  5. Yes, I agree that the human (mis-)reading of dog personalities from their appearance has been a significant driver of breeding efforts in many breeds. Working at a vet clinic in college I had a chance to see how dog would react to the various anatomical alterations commonly done, which, just typing it out inspires comparisons in my mind with Frankenstein. Of course, some modifications are done with the intention of being helpful (e.g., dew claw removal), but Border collies are lucky to not be among those with cropped ears and docked tails. In one of my less delicate conversations at a dog park, I spoke with a woman about her deberman puppy who I'd met and liked very much previously, but on that day it came with bandages and a sort of cast on its ears after they'd been cropped. "That's a shame about his poor ears, I believe they say that's one of the more painful procedures..." I said. She replied, "oh I know, but it really is important to make them effective for protection." Knowing I should walk away, I couldn't resist, "I thought that's what the teeth are for." She said, "oh no, the pointy ears really make a big difference." I finally succeeded in removing myself.
  6. Good thinking, Eileen, but I think you're missing an important element that is more likely to affect the foxes in that experiment than in a breed of dogs over the last 100-300yrs, and that's drift. Genetic Drift is the process of random deletion or unlikely preservation of a particular variation in a small population. Because the captive foxes were fewer in number (than ALL the herding dogs in the UK over a couple centuries), and only preserve a small proportion of the natural variation, you likely have some traits that are uncommon in the wild that are, by chance alone, disproportionally high in frequency in the captive sample. That can mean you get some odd things that come up and become fixed in the population. This IS, by definition, evolution, which is only the change in gene frequencies over time. However, you are talking about links between desirable features and those that are sort of pulled along with them because they are non-independent. In this small population, you also have drift, which inserts a randomness that is difficult to distinguish, and therefore not a good model for how selective breeding would have affected linked traits in a larger population over a longer period. Finally, because smooth and rough coats appear (I think) to be simple Mendelian traits, 1) they are very malleable from generation to generation, 2) having a smooth coat does not rule out the presence of the (recessive) rough coat gene, and 3) they do not consistently correspond with ear shape or erectness. I haven't heard of any theories that the two coat types were isolated from one another for any period of time, which means that they have been intermingling behavioral genes as well as those of appearance probably throughout the development and reinforcement of the breed standards. So, IF there ever were any linkage, and that is a big IF, then they certainly would have been freed a long time ago.
  7. oy...complicated, and very counter-intuitive. After a long walk out at a different park (no play, just walk), we came home and as I came to the door to get the dogs out, she went to the floor on the other side of the car. I put a leash on her and held some tension, called her out, no go. I stayed calm(not exciting or sweet) for a few minutes, then tried to coax her, kneeling down so I wasn't intimidating, no go. I went to the other side of the car, repeat, no go. I finally started lifting her up and out and then she came out clumsily. We walked calmly in, and once past the utility room she was greeted enthusiastically by my wife and Zorro, I praised her and took off her harness. Lily was happy and wagging her tail, but then when we all started down the hall she turned tail and back into the utility room. So, I guess we messed that up by being excited, and probably by my impatience at the car. I'll try again soon with no excited praise, and more patience at the car.
  8. Thanks for the thoughts, Gloria! No room in the car for a crate. I did get a pair of seatbelts. actually only meant to get one, but two came in a package. Each one clicks into the receiving end of the seatbelt. One is then clipped on to her collar or harness. The other is clipped onto the first seatbelt, so that if she unclips one of the seatbelts by stepping on it, she is still secured. She doesn't love this, but it's a must, because otherwise she tries to jump up to the front seat. She's accustomed to sitting pretty to get buckled in before we go anywhere. Yes, we've done this when she's really being reluctant. I don't want to drag her out though, and add greater stress to the situation. Sometimes just clipping the leash on is enough to get her moving, but other times it is not and I'm just there on my knees trying to talk her into leaving the car. In any case, it is good to do to sort of hustle her along through the scary part in the utility room (I guess?) and prevent her from trying to crawl under the (hot!) bottom of the car.
  9. [joke] i think the baggage in the case of the pit bull is more often projected by the people...but I don't suppose we need to get into that
  10. Lily is showing a new fear behavior that I am hoping others may have some experience with. I would just add this to the running thread that I've created for Lily, but seeing other car issues in the forums, it seems logical to list this separately so others can help, and be helped, by any discussion, without having to wade through my lengthy thread about Lily. Here's the issue. When we return home, especially from the park or somewhere fun, Lily acts afraid to get out of the car. She has to be coaxed out, often times switching from one side of the car to the other. she will sometimes "hide" on the floor of the car, something she's also done when she gets nervous when we have to take winding roads and she gets unstable on the seat. Then, when I get her out, she is afraid to go through the utility room (garage - utility room - hallway), and will try to slip back through the door back into the garage (and then back into the car). One day, she was so reluctant to come out, I left the car door open, the door to the house open, hoping that she would come in on her own and discover it was OK all along. 30min later, I lost patience and went to get her. I coaxed her out of the car and closed the car door. She still didn't want to come in, so I figured I'd give her a few more minutes. 15min later I went back and found her laying UNDER the car. This is a daily issue, sometimes easier than others. There are two things I can think of, that might be happening here. 1) she has an issue where her excitement turns into fear (discussed here: Lily's progress), and maybe she's just excited o get home but then becomes overwhelmed. 2) We've had several thunderstorms in the 5 weeks that she's lived with us, and she is VERY scared of thunder. Sometimes, as the thunder begins, she tries to lead me to the garage, which makes me think that she may think the thunder is only in our house ("let's get outta here!"). If anyone has any ideas about how to work through this, I'd love to hear. I'm thinking we might try treating upon getting home, but 1) she doesn't care of treats when she's afraid, and 2) treats may increase excitement level, and she already hides or needs reassurance after getting too excited (often times after getting home). We tried exiting the car in the driveway once, and it worked, but not without some of the same timid hesitation.
  11. Thanks. I haven't considered an online class. Part of the benefit to me of taking a class is having the structure and hands-on demo and coaching. I've been through basic obedience with enough dogs now that I don't need the introduction to it, so much as the ritual and practice with an instructor around other students.
  12. do all BCs LOVE to be loved on all the time?? Growing up I always had dogs that would love to be pet, but Zorro really is more cat like - he wants contact on his terms. Lily, is the other extreme. We joke that even though Zorro disappears into shadows (all black), Lily sticks to us like one. Several times a day she is ALMOST stepped on, sat on, laid down on or kicked. If she's a little nervous, which is a lot of the time, she's even closer. She appears out of nowhere and is sitting pretty waiting to be pet, or to climb into your pocket, I think she would take either.
  13. Thanks for the tips. I will try some of those. Lily has some predictable likes (bully sticks, hotdog, cheese) and some surprising dislikes (greenies! - Zorro's favorites!). Zorro likes carrots, but Lily doesn't. Zorro loves anything peanut butter, Lily will consider the real thing, but not peanut butter treats. Ugh.
  14. that makes no sense about the energy level. What you need to look out for is the white feet - for every white toe the dog has you're just asking for more trouble...
  15. Week 5 has been overall really good! Excitment-Fear crossover issues: Lily still has a tendency to get scared and hide after becoming VERY excited about something, but the threshold seems to be getting higher, and more and more it seems sufficient for her to just seek some extra reassurance and loving from us to get past it. So, that's a big, if incomplete, win. We have not had more people over, however, so we will have to arrange visitors soon to make sure her progress is not conditional on no company. It seems that this issue has evolved into a car/house version discussed in full here: Fear of exiting the car... Thunder storms: Lily is still terrified by storms, but I've figured out what works. 1) Hallway light on to dull flashes from lightning, 2) wall-in my bedside table to make a little den where I can reach in and pet her, 3) play the relaxation dog music youtube channel ( ). We tried a thunder shirt, but that just annoyed her and I returned it. Squirrel issues: She jumped the fence last week when I thought that she had moved past her inability to resist the squirrels. So, for now, she has to be on a leash whenever we go out to pee. The windows are still blocked, and I still have to be mindful of her starting to check the window and break her focus. But, this doesn't happen often, usually right before or after we do something exciting, so she seems to be trying to find something to occupy her while I get ready to go to the park or something. Dog park: She still has a drool beard for a few minutes of most days at the park with other dogs. It doesn't last as long, and she is now much more bold and curious with other dogs, and making more friends and having more fun. With new friends, comes new opportunities to run - like REALLY run, she is fast! So, that is great, and when she gets some good wrestling and running in the morning she is a very agreeable dog all day. I still really want to teach her fetch, but she's a little too focused on the other dogs at the park to get far with that just yet. Lily is pretty good at her recall in the park now, though better with "her" whistle call, and especially since my wife can't whistle, we really need her to be 100% with her name so we can move into some open places without fences (eventually). Training: We're all the way into the game of trying to find a treat more interesting than the furry critters on our walks. Loose-leash walking and recall are our biggest priorities right now, and she varies from great to terrible at both. There seem to be very few positive-reinforcement trainers or classes in Tulsa OK, big shock collar country I guess. We're hoping to find something promising soon. We even considered petco, but they never seem to have control over the class, especially with people walking in and out all the time with dogs and kids. So, we're spending some time refreshing on my two favorite youtube channels that I discovered when training Zorro years ago: Kristen Crestejo and Kikopup. In-house accidents: Lily sleeps in the crate now at night, except during thunder storms, and that put an end to night time accidents. Once, when there were squirrels outside, 15 minutes waiting to pee and she wouldn't go, then peed promptly after going back inside. I'm really hoping the squirrels become less novel and exciting with time. Stools are still not great, but improving marginally. It would probably be good to switch to a low fat, high fiber diet to firm her up, but the training works best with delicious treats that don't fit that description, and we are trying to encourage her to get to a better weight. We'll be getting her weight again this next week, and will adjust if we can at that point.
  16. I'm having trouble with the photo embedding, they keep showing up upside down. So, for now, here's just one more.
  17. Here's an image from today. I'd like to get her weight again this week. Her vertebrae don't show anymore, her muscles and conditioning have a way to go, but of course that will take some time. And, I think she is younger than the shelter told us, so she probably has some maturing to do yet.
  18. "Really? A border collie?" I get asked all the time at the dog park. Granted, I also get asked some very silly guesses about Zorro, but Lily being the new dog, and BCs having been bred for behavior over looks, I am thinking about this a lot. I don't think I've seen any herding tendencies at all from Lily. The closest thing might be starring when she wants to ambush another dog, but I've seen that in plenty of non-herding breeds. She also walks and trots around with her tail way up (almost like a huskies but with the BC j-hook), and always has her head up. Her lower lips hang loose towards the back, more like a big shepherd or lab, while Zorro's lips are always closed and tighter. If she didn't have the white markings, I don't think I would have guessed Lily was a BC. Others at the park are surprised when we say that she's a BC, but I have assumed that's because people around here don't seem to be aware of the smooth coat variety. Still, not seeing the classic BC postures or mannerisms has me wondering... maybe it's me who has it wrong...? Illl try to get some good current pics today and maybe get some comments from those with more experienced eyes.
  19. Thanks for the notes. Lily is improving, and doesn't resort to destruction when she wakes up bored in the day. I suppose part of it is that we know how to respond before she gets into anything we don't want her to do. Also, she has come a LONG way at the dog park. She now prefers big dogs, and seems more nervous about the little ones (curious reversal). She is better about moving on from squirrels (on leash). Today a dumb squirrel found itself trapped in a tree in the middle of the dog park. Lily was trying to climb the tree. I try not to call her when I know she won't come, but I wanted to see if, in this different environment (fun non-squirrel stuff available), she would listen at all. Nope. But, when I came to her and clipped the leash to her harness, she was immediately ready to move on, not resistance at all! It was almost as if she was relieved that I had broken the spell. She's an interesting dog.
  20. That's an interesting idea, crating when people first arrive. I'll try that with Lily, it might help with her overexcitement-to-fear issue (discussed here). Last night Lily was in her crate almost all night to prevent accidents. She has, however, already become accustomed to sleeping in the bed and was reluctant to get anywhere near the crate. So, we had to do some trick training, and she and my other dog got to learn "get in there" and "come on out." Zorro was excited about it, I think because he's assuming there must be something cool in that crate since Lily is in there sometimes and he can't get in. The use of treats, and demonstrating a few times that I will actually bring her out again, I think went a long way. Around 4am, I'm told, she was pawing at the crate door. My wife got up and took Lily out, she did her business, and Lily got a couple more treats when she went back in. Feeling good about how that all went. thanks so much for the comments, they are very helpful.
  21. Week 4 began with a newly understood fear behavior. When Lily gets super excited, like when we have company or when we come back after leaving for a couple hours, she is just so happy she can barely contain herself and then suddenly goes and hides in the bedroom. By "newly understood" I mean that we now see the pattern, not that we understand WHY excitement turns to fear. When we go back to the bedroom where she is hiding on the bed, she is usually happy to see us, but also appears very nervous and is not willing to move or come out. We haven't pushed her, we let her stay there where she feels safe until she's ready. We're wondering if she has an association, perhaps with being scolded, when she would get too excited in her previous home. Or, maybe sort of a crossover, like anxiety and depression seem like opposites but they are linked. If anyone has a clue about how to help Lily move forward on this, I would love to read it. This happened last night, and she didn't want to leave the room to go out to pee. I eventually "talked" her into it, and she was happy to get outside for a few minutes. She pee'd, then she started looking for squirrels in the trees (in the dark) and bugs, we came back in, and she hustled back to the bedroom again. Woke up at 3am because she was suddenly not afraid and now bored and hungry (hid through dinner). She started trying to play with Zorro and I got up to save him from the crazy puppy. I gave her her dinner(we're still trying to get her up to a healthy weight, so she gets some leeway) and then found that she defecated on the carpet. I've been reluctant to use her crate because I didn't feel like I knew how to judge when and how to use it (discussed here). Tonight she'd going to sleep in her crate, because I can only remember one night that I didn't have something to clean up in the morning.
  22. those are excellent responses, super helpful. Thank you both for taking the time to help me understand. I guess I just need to pick a crate-only treat. Thanks!
  23. That is helpful, as it helps me to identify the hangup that I am having in grasping this. Your distinction seems more like a state of mind in the person than a distinction in operation that can be perceived by the dog, no? If I'm Lily, and I am looking for fun, start bothering Zorro, and then I'm lead off to the crate (calmly, without being scolded). Then, does it matter to her whether I am thinking of this as punishment or to prevent something worse coming next? What about when she is actually misbehaving, e.g., trying to tear up the window shudders to see what's outside, and won't listen to us trying to get her away. If I take her to the crate, then that's stopping the behavior, but she doesn't want to go to the crate, so that's probably perceived as punishment, right? Given these two examples, is the only distinction in practice whether she is scolded BEFORE being lead off to the crate? And, if I call the latter example "punishment" while the former is "settling," does she really know the difference? How is house-training and obedience training considered with use of the crate, if at all? These aren't philosophical questions, not on purpose anyway, I really want to get this right. I've never been a fan of crates, but now I am trying something new with Lily to try to maximize her happiness and maintain the order in the house that the rest of us depend on. Thanks so much for the comment.
  24. Hello. I have never used a crate before, but had to start when our new rescue was getting really obsessed with windows. Searching the web has provided conflicting advice about how and when to use the crate so that it is constructive, and not a scary and/or cruel thing. One thing that I have gleaned from this forum, is that it should not be used as punishment, but to "settle" a dog or redirect their attention. Somehow that doesn't completely settle the issue in my head. I watched an old sheepdog herding video in which an old english sheep farmer (is that what you call them?) explained that he puts his dogs in kennels after a training session so that they spend some time thinking over their lesson, and said that the result was faster learning. Can someone explain, or direct me to a good explanation of crate use for behavioral issues and for training? For some background - My ~2yo BC Lily has only been with us for about 3 weeks now. She has calmed down quite a bit, but still has times when she gets too amped up and won't leave my other dog alone, or will start trying to tear up a rug if nobody plays with her (after initially "warning" us by squeaking her toy a while before getting destructive). She will still occasionally pee on the carpet (today, right after coming inside from a pee-break outside, on a leash to keep her from jumping the fence after squirrels). And for some reason defecated on the carpet the night before last, while I slept, though I took her out late at night. Her other training is progressing, slowly, but still only including the basics - sit, lie down, come, stay, touch, leave it. You can read a lot more about her and her issues here: Lily's progress Thanks very much for any help. Cheers.
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