speckle-legged dog

I was in Pet Smart one time and a guy with a huge dog just stood there as his dog lifted his leg and urinated on a building support post, then just walked off. This dog was really big, and left a huge puddle. He let him go in the store like he was outside watering a tree. I should have said something to someone, but didn't.

I generally just lurk here, but we brought home a BC puppy a couple of weeks ago, and I have been dealing with a few of these issues. With the biting, I don't think there's a way to stop that, but he will take a bully stick as a substitute for human flesh better than anything else I have put in his mouth. And I'm glad to know that the fact that he doesn't want to go out the front door of the house (he loves going into the back yard, however), is normal. Our now 6 year old BC was the opposite, she wanted outside the house as a pup and had a relatively decent distance she was willing to go with me before getting scared. Our new problem is that he has begun to really test his limits with our grown dog. She LOVES playing with him, but he has just started being a jerk to her, biting her tail when she is on the couch chewing something, or grabbing at her bully stick, in her mouth, when he has an identical one. She appropriately corrects him, but I don't want him to push her too far. I have enrolled him in a force-free puppy training class and we begin Monday. It started with the humans this past Monday and the class will focus a lot on redirection and interaction. I am really excited. It is going to be so different from the one I took with my girl dog. We will really be starting on the very basic integration of the puppy into our world. My girl was the star of her obedience classes, but it didn't help much outside of class for a long time. I have been using his crate and time outs with good effect, I just got a puzzel bowl to give him some mental activity when he is fed (in his crate). This was recommended in class on Monday, and he really goes after it! it was also recommended that we get him an Adaptil/Comfort Zone collar and plug in. I see this starting to help too, I went ahead and got my girl a collar too, since she's still a wild child herself. I hope to learn more in class. There are lots of trick training books around, but I got the Sylvia Trkman "Puppy Diary", just because I plan on doing agility with him, as I do with my girl. It, and any kind of trick work, really gets that little BC brain a work out. Things aren't where I want them yet, but these are things that have suggested to me so far, and I am trying them. Slowly but surely I feel like the new kid will come along.

I appologize, I am beginning to believe that "startline stay" is more of a religious practice than an agility technique. I've not been doing agility long and I must appologize for despising the ground "startline stay" walks on; though I still do. Sorry that me and my shelter dog stink so bad (actually she could use a bath).

I am sure people would be quite supportive. If I did feel I had to do something like blow runs, it would be at a NADAC trial and I just wouldn't count on doing anything but stay all day. I don't personally want to do that though, Layla might be fine with it but I am not sure it's worth it to me, I might have to blow God only knows how many trials worth of runs and still have the same dog with no change. I have seen a lady do this with a Sheltie for the same length of time as I've run Layla, she does everything the proper way and blows the run if the dog breaks her stay, but the dog still isn't much better than Layla at a stay and they don't seem to get much flow in their runs at trials after all that beginning frustration. I think I might end up looking at Layla as the stubborn dog making me blow another run rather than my partner in a fun activity, when I felt I had to find a way to have a stay I really did look at her as impossible to run and me a total failure at training her. If I actually thought this would work in say one NADAC trial's worth of trashed runs, I would probably try it, but I think it would end up being many, many, many trial's worth with her. She becomes a different dog at trials, it has taken a long time for her to be able to listen and follow me. If I have to have a stay I could always switch to Rally, she would probably do one in that activity (just joking, I might add Rally O but not give up agility, we love it).

Really good idea! I will DEFINITELY work on that one. That is certainly something we can do! Thanks!

I'm glad for the discussion. (Especially the folks who say agility can be done without the startline stay, which we won't have). I have been using something like the "sling-shot" for the last trial and the one this weekend, my teacher just didn't give it a name. I talked to a lady at the trail we competed in down in TN who had a very good agility dog (now retired) that didn't have a startline stay. That relieved me quite a bit also. I have worked very hard with Layla, she is my first dog as an adult and I didn't get her until I was 46 and she was 8 weeks old, and of course my first agility dog. At one trial I had an especially difficult time and someone said I shouldn't have gotten "a dog like that" as my first dog. But I got agility for the dog rather than the dog for agility; but now I'm hooked! That's just background. I am very proud of Layla, we finished our Open JWW title and got a Q in Excellent JWW. We got 2 Qs in Open Standard also. The stay really wasn't an issue (the dreaded teeter-totter was, but we can work on that more with cheese). My poor handling in the middle of the course kept us from getting another Excellent JWW. Layla followed me as I over handled and pulled her right off the next jump, LOL, sorry girl. The stay is kind of an issue at NADAC trials at times, but there's not much I can do about it except to start way back and use lateral distance. The positive thing we have is lateral distance. She has been very responsive to training that. Here's a youtube of our Open JWW run, she pulled out of the weaves because of me, I paused in my forward motion and she popped out, not her fault, good enough for the title though. I wish I had been able to get someone to record our Excellent JWW Q, that was a very nice run, but my buddies were waiting to run in the other ring at the time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Tg5ATMTQQkA It's not brilliance, but we have improved a lot. Old woman with fast dog, but I'm very proud of her. I am going to continue to work on strategies that do not involve at startline stay, that would be lots more fun for us than my blowing trials until I quit agility altogether. (We are also totally evil and have running contacts, I do everything wrong, go big or go home, as they say).

This probably sounds crazy, with no stay, but I have some decent goals for Layla; I would really like to get her running at Master level at some point; and I actually think she could do it. I will just keep working and trialing and trying to enjoy the process. She is very attentive except for the stay. I think a lot of her and want to try to get her to reach her potential, whatever that is. I feel like she deserves a better hander than me, but at least she gets to do this since I'm unskilled rather than just unwilling to try.

I will be very happy for and try any tip that does not include blowing runs at trials. I enjoy training Layla and would certainly be glad to incorporate anything I haven't considered.

That's awesome! Actually, I did something very similar at our last trial because I was afraid the leash wouldn't hit the ground before she made it through the hoop to start. Not that I have moved anything like Silvia Trkman can for about 20 years, LOL. But I did find that it helped us to do that.

Thanks! I was almost afraid to come back here after posting that (at least right before leaving for a trial). Layla is scary fast, but she's also become VERY observant of me during runs. If she takes a cue wrong 10 - 1 I gave a poor or late cue. I have been getting that team feeling during the last couple of trials and in practice. I really like that feeling. Only once did her no-stay bite us in the butt at the last trial, and I could have still pulled that one out if I had anticipated the course better and run straight for the fourth obstacle and let her take the first three in line like she did; so really it was more my funble than hers in the end. It's nice to know that there are folks who feel I can start over if I need or want to, but just keep on going if I don't. Since the disaster back in April though, we've done nothing but get more in synch except for the one trial where I did get a couple of stays out of her, then we didn't mesh for the rest of the run. I guess I just hear and read about the mighty STAY so much that I feel like people probably look at Layla and say "nice run, BUT no stay, LOSER HANDLER!" LOL. It has really gotten into my head enough to cause me a lot of needless worry. And I'm pretty sure one terrier lady thinks I'm a complete basket case after we had the "stay" conversation in the local dog botique (where she was the millionth person who said I had to get one).

What a lovely girl!!!! She is going to be lots of fun!

Update: We will NEVER have a startline stay. I have tried so many things, and I have worked very hard, I do now have a dog who has tremdous self-control when I feed her and make her wait, when she has to wait at the door in and out, waits whenever I tell her. The only two times I got a startline stay out of her at a trial we had just awful runs. I just feel like the startline stay is the only thing that really matters sometimes when I read about agility. We will always look like frauds I guess, but I'm not going to just blow runs for it no matter how bad that makes me, I would soon quit agility out of frustration and feeling like I was a failure if I did that, I know me and I would hate the whole thing and Layla would absolutely know it and feel my frustration. Oh, and I never did train 2 on 2 off, that was way out of my league with this crazy little gal. I have gotten so uptight about this whole startline business that I thought maybe I should just quit agilty anyway, I have literally worn a few people around me out with my fretting. And then we had a huge blow-up of a NADAC trial last spring when Layla decided that not only would she not stay but she would just run around in circles and not come back to me either (I had neglected to continue training her to return, I am so lost sometimes). I got her back into obedience after that bad experience and we worked and worked on the issue without trialing for a while and I am happy to say it is completely resolved and still worked on regularly so that it remains resolved. She returns like a charm. If anyone has any links to information about people who handle without a startline stay, it would do this total idiot and fraud loads of good! I am enjoying this game but am plagued with knowing I'm doing it all wrong. I absolutely do accept that it is all my fault, I did everything totally wrong from the start and am adamant about not doing what people tell me I must do to fix it, which is to blow runs at trials. No problem with responsibility on this one, I'll happily take it. I hadn't a clue how to train a dog and she was so over the top when we started agility that just getting her to focus and pay attention was huge, never mind the stay issue. She's still over the top, but pays really good attention to me now, once the run has commenced of course. Since that original post I made we have continued in NADAC and are in Elite Regular and Tunnlers; Open - Touch and Go and Jumpers, and still Novice in Chances, Hoopers, and Weavers (I don't know what's wrong with us in weavers, Layla's weaves are awesome, but we've only just gotten into the groove on hoops). We also started AKC agility in June and are Open JWW and Open Standard along with Excellend FAST (Layla refused to put a paw on the teeter-totter for over a year, so we just didn't do AKC for a while). I'm doing absolutely everything wrong but we are having a great time and I am very proud of my girl. She's way too fast for my old bones but we have some decent distance. I only get upset when I start looking for agility links to read and see what a misfit I am in this little hobby. Layla however is a very confident dog who absolutely considers agility her job and loves it. I know AKC is controversial, but there are a fair number of trials I can get to within 2 to 4 hours distance and since she's a Border Collie mix I just registered her as an All American Dog; and I have to say the people at the AKC trials I have attended have been extremely nice and helpful. Another thing I have learned in the past year is that we have both improved tremendously by going to more trials and enjoying those experiences. The anxiety really does flow down that leash, and the trials have helped me and that has helped her. (Did I mention the joke about the woman who was a walking anxiety disorder who walked into her local shelter and came out with the BC pup? No joke, she's me!). I was just getting down in the dumps reading about startline stays online and ended up with a Google bringing me to my original post on the subject. Kind of like Googling Porsche, I might want one; but I'm not going to be getting one any time soon and for now my Honda isn't so bad.

Probably trying to cash in on breeding the two "smartest" breeds together. We got our border collie mix by going to the shelter, so obviously this is a bit pricey for us (though I won't admit how much I spend on agility trials and general doggie bling, LOL).

She is absolutely beautiful! I think she's part Sheltie, looking at that delicate face. I am no expert at all, my girl is a mix als (probably). Most people think she has a bit of heeler; but her every little action is BC, from what every trainer we've had has told us. Get her in agility and ROCK the 12 inch jump height!

Wonderful runs!! I'm still pretty new to agility, and our team has a much better dog than handler. I really like your handling, great distance! I tend to look like a Dodo bird trying to take flight.

No one at our agility class can believe that my Layla is one of the best behaved dogs in her doggie daycare since she DOES NOT want to be bothered in any way by other dogs when she is working with me on something. She will give that little toothy growl if other dogs try to get in her face when she is preparing to "work". She is intolerant of rude dogs too.

http://agilityevents.net/ The web site above is a nice resource, it lists many upcoming events in a number of different agility venues. I am still pretty new to agility and it is helping me find trials within our traveling range. I have been to Bowling Green twice this year, by the way, both for NADAC trials held at Western's Ag Center. I live in Lexington. I didn't start my dog in agility classes until she was over a year old mainly because I didn't really know how to get started or what was involved, so she was already old enough to do all the jumping necessary. There was an Aussie in our class that was only about 9 months old at the time and while he still jumped, he jumped over very low bars in class until he was a year old.

Amen to that! I am definitely trying that.

That's a huge problem for me. I tend to get nervous and it goes right down the leash. We have been going to trials just over a year, mostly NADAC, this will be our second AKC trial. I had to get my focus back during the NADAC trial we went to earlier in the month after Layla had one bad run I caused several worried about her following me. I had to get off to myself and just focus and we got much better after that. I can't imagine wanting to rev Layla up, she gets revved up just seeing that we are at a trial, my dog does not require additional juice, batteries ARE included. When we are on it is so much fun though. When we both get over the top we are a massive train wreck, LOL. I have been using our usual morning walk time to just practice handling with a few NADAC style hoops this week (some version of which I may do Saturday morning). Trying to keep it in my mind that my dog will follow me, I have to trust her. Going to some run throughs where we have class tonight, the courses will be quite difficult, I like that, it will help us this weekend. Last week the courses were hard and Layla was amazing (me, less so, much less, I wish she could read the numbered cones). Maybe it's the natural course of things that a person who tends to have a lot of anxiety and obsessiveness walked into the animal shelter 3 years ago and came out with a (mostly) BC pup! Whatever it is, I'll never be sorry. She's a trip!

Thanks for all the responses! I need to try to use a lot of these suggestions. Layla gets so amped up that I have to treat her to even get her to allow me to rub on her while we are waiting for our run. I am generally working toward focus and getting as much of her edge off as possible. I am also lucky, as many of your dogs, that she just falls asleep once we get in the car.

Thanks! That is very helpful. Reminds me that going through some obedience with her before runs has help a lot on her focus in the past. I think I might do some walking and focus Saturday morning. Probably a very good idea.

I am still pretty new to dog agility and am wondering what the best sort of exercise you have found to do with a dog the morning before you leave for an agility trial? This weekend we will be going back and forth from Lexington to Louisville, KY (about 70 miles) each day for the three day AKC trial, so I will be able to do some kind of exercise or warm up with my dog before we leave home. I have tried different things in the past year we have been trialing, more when I am commuting from home than when staying at a hotel. I haven't found that playing ball fetch calms her down particularly, despite the energy she expends (she can go very over the top at agility trials, she LOVES AGILITY). I think the best result was when I walked her about 3 or 4 miles before we left, which is our normal morning walk; it's just hard on my middle-aged body to do so much then drive 70 miles, then run agility and drive back and start over the next day. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great. This is only our second AKC trial, since my Layla only fairly recently decided that that the teeter was doable, we've been mostly doing NADAC. She was measured at 18" the first time so she was able to jump 16", she jumps 20' in NADAC, but it would be nice if she could come out with another 18" measurement. She is right on that edge between jump heights. We did our long walk before she received that first, favorable measurement.

I had the same fears! I started reading that "hype" after we brought our Border Collie mix home from the shelter and it really worried me. But after her puppy stages were done and we settled on agility as her "job", I can't imagine having a better dog, and neither can my husband, and he has much more dog experience than I do. One time, when Layla was about a year old, I took her to the outdoor farmer's market one Saturday and she was sitting quietly by my feet as I picked out some kind of veggie and a guy came up behind me and pointed at my sitting dog and said "Border Collie?" and I said, "yea, a mix, but mostly BC", and he shook his head and said "They're CRAZY".

http://agilityevents.net/ I was recently told of this site, it lists trial information for all different agility organizations by state. It's a handy reference! My dog is a BC mix (no neuter concerns there since she came spayed), we are still pretty new to agility and have done mostly NADAC, and are in Open in all but Weavers and Chances in that at this point. But it seems that so many people who I train with are always saying that the real agility is AKC and anything else is "just practice" for them. I have gone to one AKC trial so far, and while I like the courses, I didn't have nearly as much fun as I do at NADAC trials, which in my area are smaller and you can run up to 6 runs per day without HOURS in between runs. I am signed up for another AKC trial in late August, because I simply enjoy trialing and my dog loves getting to play agility any time - anywhere. But I have to admit, it is nagging at me that so many of our classmates consider AKC to be the "real deal" and I feel the need to give it a go.

Your dogs are wonderful!!!!! I feel better, I was kicking myself a bit for not getting Layla along fast enough in agility (since I've never done this before) and she's 3; knowing your wonderful dog is still going so strong at 12 is AWESOME! Your dog that didn't want to do the teeter, that's Layla, I am definitely behind in AKC because of this. We've been doing more NADAC though. Your dogs are having a great time out there! Such fun!