MommaLove

Hi, I know you already PMed me, but now that I see your pedigree on this thread I can tell you that your dog is a full sibling to both Juno and Coby. While Dennis Nutt is not a responsible breeder (the more I deal with him & discover about him, the less thrilled I am with him), he did somehow manage to produce some pretty superb dogs. I would never get a dog from him again, nor would I recommend that anybody else get a dog from him. That being said, Juno is an amazing working dog, doing VERY well in her training, high drive and very eager to please. Coby is doing very well also, though he hasn't had the level of training that Juno has had, mostly because I am waiting for spring before I really get going with him. They both have great instinct and are very easy to train. I got lucky, I suppose!

Gloria, I love your response. You put into words very clearly what I have been thinking but was unable to articulate. This thread has been on my mind since I first read it and it is really bothering me. First, because my husband did force the re-homing of my beloved dog, and second, because having dogs in our lives has been hands-down the best thing for my children. My husband and I separated in November (actually, when he forced the re-homing of my dog, it drove a huge wedge into my heart. That was not the only issue, but it certainly didn't help things!). Over the last few months, I have been SO grateful for the dogs, as my child's love for his dog and the dog's love for my child have been the best therapy we could hope for. I just can't fathom how you can give 8 or 9 years of your life to a dog, love him, care for him, provide for his every need, and then give up on him when there is a small accident that is in no way his fault, for the sake of a man who certainly has not given you all the years of love and devotion that the dog has. Not to say that the man's feelings and concerns shouldn't be considered - of course, they should! - but the sweeping demand to have no dogs when children arrive, when you already have dogs in the home, is a little extreme. There were many times in my marriage when I went against my better judgement to accommodate my husband. Looking back, I wish I had taken greater care to ensure that MY needs were met. My husband no longer lives here, but the dogs remain and their love is unwavering. OP, I wish you every happiness in your marriage, and I hope that it lasts for all of your days - but if (God forbid) it doesn't last, will you deeply regret giving up Riley the way I deeply regret giving up my dog? I sure hope not. It is an awful feeling to live with.

You may recall that we adopted Coby back in September, quite unexpectedly. He is a sibling to Juno (from another litter). (The thread is here.) I thought I'd be best off finding Coby a great forever home, and did just that. However, my oldest son had deeply bonded with Coby (before I found Coby his great home, my son was taking him out for walks, playing fetch with him, snuggling up to him in the crate, etc), and when Coby went to his great new home, my son FREAKED OUT. For two days, he cried and cried. He wouldn't allow me to console him in any way, and hid beside the bookshelf in our living room, where he cried himself to sleep the first night and woke up crying the next morning. He said such things as, "Mama, PLEASE call that man and get my dog back!" and, "Coby is MY dog, we love each other! He's not that man's dog, he's MINE!" I tried explaining to my son that we have a busy home, lots of dogs, etc and that Coby would get tons of quality one-on-one attention in his new home (to which my son responded, "I give him the best attention he could ever want!") - all to no avail. My son was totally crushed. After Coby had been in his new home for two days, I received a phone call from his new owner. He told me that Coby was very distressed - he shredded his bed, ripped apart shoes, tore up a shirt, shredded boxes. He was pacing by the front door, whining and crying and watching the driveway. (We NEVER saw any of that from him, not even his first few days in our home!) Coby's new owner told me, "Every time I look at this dog, I feel like he needs to be with your son." The man had never met my son and had no idea the emotional trauma we were dealing with! Coby's new owner told me that he already felt great love for Coby and that he was such a wonderful dog, and that he'd be totally willing to stick with it and work through the anxiety that Coby was feeling. But, he said, "still, I think he should be with your son, and if you want to take him back I will understand and have no hard feelings." That was all it took. I loaded my kids into the van, and we drove straight to Coby's new home to collect him. As soon as we walked through the door, Coby was all over my son, kissing him and rubbing against him. It brought tears to every adult's eye. My son was grinning from ear to ear, hugging Coby and laughing. So, now Coby is officially my son's dog. I'm glad we have him here forever, as during those two days without him I will admit I felt a gaping hole as well, and things just weren't the same around this place. We weren't looking to have Coby when he first came into our lives, but it must have been fate. We're certainly blessed to have him in our family. As it so happens, my son wants very badly to do agility with Coby. They are going to try out a beginner course in January, and in the meantime my son is practicing some basic cues with Coby so Coby knows that he needs to listen to his boy. Here's a peek at what they're up to -

I understand the situation you are in (remember, my husband insisted that I re-home my dog). But as I'm reading your post I'm noticing things like "Once we have children, I could separate them, but even if I was perfectly adept at keeping them apart, what kind of life is that for Riley?" - WHY do you assume you'd have to keep him separated? Why do you assume Riley would not be good with your future children? You can't possibly know that. Dogs seem to "get it" when their person becomes pregnant - at least, in my experience. They seem to understand that the baby is an extension of the mother. I will leave you with this: (Oddler was 6 years old when our first child was born)

I had a Border Collie before Juno came into my life. There were a few mishaps around the farm - nothing huge, and nothing that couldn't be corrected - but my husband was furious (he thought the dog should be perfect, despite her young age) and demanded that I get rid of her. Stupidly, I did. I found her a great home, but I regretted it every moment thereafter. I mourned her as though she had died. She had been my "heart dog" and I was so sad without her. It was one of my life's great mistakes. Never again will I give up a beloved pet for the sake of a relationship. I have four kids and four dogs. It would never occur to me to eliminate a dog from my house because of something that might happen with some child at some point in the future. I train my dogs well, I manage their interactions with my children, and I have NEVER had a single incident that would cause me to worry about either my children or my dogs. To the OP - Everything that has been said about Riley sounds totally manageable to me, and given that you don't have children yet, you have plenty of time to work with him on the minor issues you've mentioned.

Thanks to all for the input. I have decided to go ahead and spend the week up north with a second trainer, and I'll be talking to our current trainer about it next time we go up for a lesson

Thanks I have another question - Do you think it's best to stay with one trainer, or is it ok to try two different trainers? I can see pros and cons to each. I have an opportunity to spend a week up north with a different trainer in the spring, but I'd also like to continue with the trainer we're currently working with. I need to decide what I'm going to do! I don't want to confuse Juno with different approaches, but on the other hand I feel like we could learn a lot more with input and instruction from two different people.

So, after all this discussion about netting (which you are all free to carry on with as you choose!), does anyone have anything to say about Juno? I'm curious to know what more experienced folks may see in her - whether good or bad. I think she's doing pretty well, but I don't know much and I'm learning right along with her.

No, the fence is not hot. It's just plain old netting. No power to it

Thanks for that input! The sheep were very well-dogged, used on a regular basis for training dogs as well as worked daily by the trainer's dogs. There were also several of the trainer's own trial dogs on hand just on the other side of the fence.

Dave, thank you for asking. I'd also like to hear what others have to say about the sheep being penned. I was surprised to see the pen during our first training session and just rolled with it because I'm a greenie and don't know squat about starting a sheep dog. I was under the impression that Juno would have access to the sheep the second time around - but still, on the second visit the pen was put up. From what the trainer told me, Juno was too young at the time of the lesson to have free access to sheep because young dogs will give chase and use grip (meanwhile, Juno is HIGHLY obedient and when she had an accidental opportunity with our own livestock, didn't even come close to giving chase or using grip - and I told the trainer as much). Trainer said that Juno was likely to run a sheep right into a fence post or a gate and break a neck. Also said that the idea was to get Juno "turned on" to the sheep and that once she turned on, the pen would come down(as you can see in the videos, that is not really a problem. Juno has had obvious instinct since her very early days and clearly wants to work). I'm in an area that is sorely lacking stock dog trainers. We drove nearly three hours one way to go to these lessons, which meant six hours of driving for about 20 minutes of Juno running circles around a pen. This is not to say that I'm unhappy with the pen, necessarily. Like I mentioned, I am a newbie. Perhaps there is a deeper rhyme & reason to the pen that I'm unaware of. It was very neat to see how Juno clicked on and wanted to work the sheep, great to see her willingness to co-operate & lie down despite the intense eagerness to go-go-go. I'm interested to read what others have to say about the pen, both good and bad.

Hmmm, it shows up on my screen. I don't know what I should change. Try again?

As I was cleaning up my camera's memory, I found the video I took two months ago of Juno's second training session on sheep. We're on a bit of a hiatus right now because I have health issues that make it hard to get out in the cold, but we'll be picking up again in earnest in the spring. In the meantime, we're keeping busy with agility classes, but I'm itching to get back to those sheep!! Any input, advice, or feedback you have about the video is greatly appreciated!

May your holidays be filled with love, laughter, and light - wherever you are, however you celebrate, whatever you believe. Best of the season to you all!

The woman who owns the training centre we go to has three Herdabout Shelties and they are AMAZING dogs. All three are agility & obedience dogs and have plenty of titles. I was, once upon a time, considering getting a Sheltie (ended up with Juno instead, thank goodness!) and would have purchased from Herdabout, but was bothered by the stance against raw feeding and non-vaxxing. Otherwise, I really like them.