MaggieDog

Thanks for the input thus far everyone! I too was leaning toward the ACD (leggy version, no 'show' dogs for me) or a BC. I love shepherds and AmStaffs, but they will probably be my 'family' dogs down the road. My current girl was adopted at 11 mo and although she herds more like a BC than an ACD, I think she's prob a mix of the two. I think I may try to rescue another ACD/BC mix for my next dog - I can't choose between the two breeds and I don't really want to be like everyone else running a BC in agility lol. I would love to raise a pup cause I really miss not knowing Maggie as a baby pup, but I think for performance it might be better to look at dogs b/n 6mo and 1 yo since they're still young, but old enough to see some of their adult build and personality like someone mentioned earlier. More thoughts are always welcome!

Thought I would get your opinions on where I should look for my next performance dog (agility for sure, possibly flyball, rally, herding, etc.). I've narrowed breeds down to German Shepherd, Border Collie, AmStaff, or Australian Cattle Dog so far and I know I want a male. My current girl is a BC, possibly mixed with cattle dog. There are two adolescent ACD (and/or BC) mixes at the local shelter that could be promising and I know BC rescue gets a lot of potential performance dogs too. I hesitate to get a GSD or AmStaff from rescue for performance due to the structural problems in GSD and dog aggression in AmStaffs. I found a great breeder of AmStaffs who I've been talking with and I could probably get a pup from her in the next few years that has parents with health cerfs and low incidence of dog aggression. My uncle breeds good GSDs, but I don't know if hhis dogs' temperament is suitable for a working situation (much calmer, lower drive I think). I could find a good pup from BC working lines too I'm sure - never a breeder of strictly agility or conformation dogs of course. I had my heart set on a baby pup, but those two cattle dog teenagers are awfully tempting. Can you all give me some things to think about when it comes to shelter animals vs. breeder animals in this situation? What about adolescents vs. baby pups? Thanks!

One thing I do when training different sports at the same time is use a physical cue - in my case it's usually a collar. Maggie knows that when she's on a slip lead or her light weight snap collar we will be doing agility stuff, when she wears her 1.5" wide padded collar it's rollerblading and she can pull if she wants, her plain ID collar is just for walks and short trips, and her cushioned prong or limited slip collar is for working in public places or running with me. Maggie also knows that when she's wearing a vest she's 'on duty' as a therapy dog so she moderates her behavior then as well. If your dog has a special vest or collar for SAR I think that in and of itself will cue him into the different way of working on equipment.

What about bringing him to work and leaving him crated in the car? If it's nice out you shouldn't have to worry about temperature dangers, you can take him out on breaks and lunch to work a bit, he learns to settle in a small area, and you know exactly what he's up to. Just make sure you get a super strong crate for him so you don't lose a car in the process - Kennel Aire makes some nice wire ones, but an airline crate contained my crate escape artist girl. HTH, I agree that he needs more exercise for sure - do you have hills for him to fetch balls up? That would be more of a work out than on the flat.

Just another 2 cents on the genetic basis for bad temperaments... My girl Maggie went through 3 other homes before she came to live with me at 11 mo. I have no idea what her life was like before I got her, but I think the worst thing that happened to her was probably a fight with another dog and lack of socialization, no actual physical abuse. I think Mags maybe slightly genetically fearful, but she is not dangerous. This dog that used to literally flip out when surrounded by more than 4 people spent a weekend with 50 kids, much of the time with 5 to 10 petting and hugging her at once. She has her CGC and is a therapy dog (her certification was renewed this year). Even at her worst, Maggie would nip (no actual contact) at fast moving strangers and react to dogs, but she has never bitten - the closest she's come to that was when I stuck my arm out to block her from snapping at another dog: I got a small scrape before she swung her head away after realizing she had touched my skin. I've volunteered at a shelter for 6 years and I have seen 12 week old puppies resource guarding so seriously that they offered multiple hard bites on a test hand! There is are differences in genetic temperament and we need to be careful not to lump all genetically fearful dogs into the same catagory as those who are more predisposed to a serious bite. Yes any temperament faults that are genetic should be bred away from, but making sweeping generalizations can be pretty bad as well. Not all fearful dogs are born that way or were abused or can/cannot be trained or will bite - the bottom line is to know *your* dog and what they are capable and to take that into consideration when/if you breed.

Glad to hear that things are looking good for Tib!

Maggie has never actually run out of the ring, but it has been quite close. My parents aren't such an issue now since I'm at college and Maggie stays and works with me, but my bf, now that's another story! The last trial we were at I looked at the course and found a place for him to stand that wouldn't distract her off course, but would instead cause her to go faster at a key point. It worked well, but I also was very aware for the potential for an off course, so we worked on attention and tricks for about 20 mins before our run w/o my bf nearby. HTH

Maggie only had one such bump and she eats from a stainless steel dish; so far the bump has gone down and seems to be on it's way toward disappearing since I accidently 'popped' it (eww). I'm still keeping an eye on it too. Erin

I don't think so, we don't really have ants that bite around here (I'm in Indiana) and she hasn't been out much today or yesterday. Thanks for the input tho.

Maggie has a little bump on her muzzle - upon squeezing it it oozed some pus, just like a pimple. It doesn't seem to bother her at all and she was good about letting me mess with her muzzle while I was looking at it. I put hydrogen peroxide on the bump and gave her a treat for being so good and she's just as happy as usual. Should I be worried about the bump? I'll keep an eye on it of course, but figured I'd get some additional input from you all.

My Maggie started lessons at almost 6 and she shows some ability - the hardest thing is getting her comfortable making her own decisions when necessary rather than relying on me as she has been trained to do in obedience and agility. Luckily she's never truly been punished for herding behavior (unlike the dog you posted about I would think), otherwise I bet it would be more difficult to work with her on sheep. Maggie will never be a farm dog and prob not even a trial dog, but she is helping me learn about herding.

The yahoo group Agbeh could help...its a very serious goup, but very helpful esp for people without many options in their area.

On a hunch I looked at the ingredients in Innova Evo -- it looks like you could prob use it while you were getting the raw diet set up and during traveling since it does have potatos and carrots (BL on your list) but no other allergy inducing ingredients. I would hate to feel rushed in setting up a raw diet and it's always good to have a backup food for traveling, etc. where raw may be difficult to use. For allergies, you may want to look into supplementing with Nettle - it's supposed to help with itching, etc.

Maggie is due for vaccines this month so this subject is definitely quite interesting to me. Here's my vet's protocol for adult dogs (Maggie is 6 so I don't know about pup stuff): DHPP (no lepto) every three years Rabies every three years as required by law Bordatella every year if necessary for boarding, etc. My parents' epileptic dog only gets rabies every three years, and we might be dropping it all together and having the vet sign a waiver for it given her seizure free state (I think about 2 years now!!) and her age (10 yo tomorrow).

I would feed raw or homecooked, but I can't stand dealing w/ raw meat for myself let alone for the dog. lol Maggie is eating Innova Evo right now and she's doing well - more energy (yea I'm actually happy about that), seems less itchy, nice coat, small poops, etc. It does have a high protien level due to the lack of grains in it, but so far so good on the energy and aggression front (I've heard hi protein may exacerbate aggression issues in some dogs). Someone mentioned earlier that hi protein can cause kidney problems and I have to wonder where they got that...don't wolves and dogs in primitive areas live on hi protein diets w/o much problem? Anyway that's my setup; my parents feed their two dogs, one with epilepsy, Nutro Natural Choice Lamb and Rice w/ safflower oil, oatmeal, and vitamin E added.

1. I know this has been covered a while ago, but I couldn't find the post so...where's a good place to find whistles for a beginner to play with? My herding instructor uses the plastic ones, but I know there's wide opinion on the right 'type' to start on so I need help w/ that as well. 2. How do you all determine if a dog might work well on cattle? Since herding work is pretty new to Maggie and I, I doubt this will ever be a possibility, but since Maggie may have some ACD in her blood and seems to enjoy gripping sheep a bit more than she should, I thought it would be a good thing to inquire about. Along the same line: where might I find cow dog resources (like trainers, basics, etc.)? Thanks in advance!

Reading thru some of the posts here has brought up some questions. For those who haven't seen my other posts, my BC Maggie was just started on sheep a few weeks ago and has had 3 lessons so far. We're working with an all breed AKC trainer, but will most likely be switching to a handler who runs BCs in non AKC trials. So far Maggie has a pretty good fetch and is just starting on baby outruns. She can flank decently from either direction, though she prefers going to her left. She is still pretty barky and does grip when she first gets onto the field, but we're working on that. I saw a few flickers of eye at our last lesson. Its funny to see her work compared to the shelties who are also working with our current trainer - she's just slightly behind a dog that's been training for about 2 *years*!! Now I understand why instinct and breeding for working rather than show is soooo important; the dog that's been training for so long had almost no instinct when they started and had to spend several months just playing with sheep to get anything to work with. I'd love to eventually trial Maggie, but even if I don't I still want to teach her the best I can. Here are my questions: I've heard about whistles; when should I start thinking about using one? My current trainer only uses verbal commands/directions, but I'm finding it hard to use and prefer a clearer, faster cue. If you use whistles to direct your dog, does it have to be using an actual whistle you put in your mouth or can it just be a normal whistle (w/o an extra piece of equipment, just your lips)? Right now Maggie's release to sheep is a two tone whistle and that's working so much better than using another word. How do you get your dogs to work out from the stock? Maggie likes being up close and personal and thus puts too much pressure on the sheep and I end up getting stepped on. Right now I use a rake to control her movements w/ an occasional toss near her to tell her to back off, but it seems to be too much of a correction as she is very tuned into me and very soft I think. Any books to suggest? I'd like to get some good background info on herding training and some details of the actual process to supplement my weekly lessons. Thanks.

I just started herding w/ Maggie (3 lessons so far)...she's doing well but I've also discovered the same things. I'm a clicker trainer as well and of course don't use it when we're with the sheep. Right now I use a rake to keep Maggie off the sheep and thus correct her using motions with the rake or, when she's really too close to the stock, throw it right next to her (not to hit, just to startle). The only problem I'm having with this technique is that while the correction seems to work immediately, the long lasting impression it leaves on Maggie seems overly negative. My trainer doesn't seem concerned, but I've noticed Maggie taking off across the field to check out other things rather than working the stock more often and I wonder if it's a reaction to too much pressure from the rake and my handling? Any thoughts there?

We have three permanent dogs between my parents and I; 6 dogs have been temporary fosters so I won't include them. Oreo (Cattle Dog mix): 9 y/o, from a litter of pups born to a stray who showed up in someone's barn very pregnant - our vet told my parents about the litter and I got to pick Oreo out at 4 weeks; she came home w/ us at 7 weeks. Maggie Mae (Border Collie): 5 y/o, adopted from local shelter at 11 mo the day she was due to be PTS because she was going 'kennel crazy'; I'm her 4th and final owner. She's turned into a good agility dog, beginning herder, and great demo dog from her beginnings as a severely undersocialized pup. Gryffin (Rottie mix): 2 y/o, originally a temporary foster, but he caught my parents' hearts and so he was adopted from the same shelter where we adopted Maggie.

Awesome and good to hear....I'm so used to dog sports that not having to have a dog registered in some manner is foreign. Guess I should get used to it since I'm already well on my way to being addicted to herding lol.

I'm probably waaay ahead of myself right now, but I'll ask my question anyway. My BC is a shelter dog. We just started herding this weekend and since she is showing some ability (see my post in the General area) we'll be training this winter. Right now this is just for fun, but if in the future I want to trial I was wondering what the registration requirements are. I noticed that ABCA has a registration by merit which is quite detailed and extensive, but seems to be the only way to register a dog of unknown pedigree. Do you have to be registered to trial? If so, do all organizations that hold trials require this or not? If only some require registration, which ones do not? Is there another registry that allows dogs of unknown parentage? Thanks in advance.

Don't be surprised if you get some pretty strong opinions on this board - everyone comes from a different perspective and many of us have seen what happens when people who aren't ready to breed do. That said it is good you're coming here for advice rather than just going it alone if you are convinced you want to breed. Why and when are you planning on breeding your girl? Does she have health clearances (hip xrays, etc.) ? Does she work? Have you done any research? Do you have a mentor who can help you? Are you aware that you could lose you girl during her pregnancy/whelping? If you breed, will you take pups back years after you sold them if their owners can't keep them? How will you screen possible puppy owners? These are all questions that need to be answered so everyone can give you the best advice/suggestions possible. Personally, it would take a lot for me to be convinced that you should breed your girl. I've volunteered at a shelter for 6 years and have seen plenty of pure BCs come in for just being a normal BC - their owners weren't properly screened and didn't know what a BC needs and the breeder wasn't responsible enough to take them back. A lot of these dogs had behavior problems and some had health problems that would've been prevented if their parents had been screened. Hopefully you can see why this makes me hesitate to help someone who may or may not know what is really involved in breeding.

I too have a BC with variable energy lol. She has adapted well to two 1/2 mile walks a day plus rollerblading and playing in the house from being out in a huge yard with squirrels to chase and another dog to play with. When home alone while I'm in class she is entertained by a treat ball and a Kong or Greenie. My roommate is home some of the day, but doesn't walk or exercise Maggie. Thursdays are agility night and weekends are for hiking, visits to dog friendly stores, and sometimes agility trials. Maggie is a rescue and is now 5 yo...she's settled down a little from when I adopted her at 11 mo but she can still be a a ball of energy when she wants. I also second the idea that BC owners have different definitions of what is acceptable when it comes to time spent w/ the dog. I got into an 'interesting' discussion with a guy in one of my classes that shows Havanese (small, longhaired dogs for those who don't know) in conformation - he doesn't understand why we should breed for ability rather than 'looks' and how anyone can have a BC as a 'non working' pet. He is of the mindset that to exist as a breed BCs should be bred to be normal pets. One of the things he said was 'who wants a dog that needs to have something to do 24/7' and I replied '*I* do!' lol. He thinks the time I spend w/ my girl is excessive and my amount isn't even close to some people here! Goes to show how different people can see things I guess.

I remember reading about a dog born w/o feet - his owners had prosthetic feet made for him so he didn't rub the stumps raw. Apparently he's doing quite well w/ his new feet. Something to consider if the foot is amputated since then he wouldn't be putting any more weight on the other hip.

Maggie is often affectionately referred to as: goofball vicious guard dog (she sounds ferocious when the doorbell rings or someone knocks) crazy dog houdini sneak Those who meet Maggie usually remark that she's: really smart well trained beautiful gorgeous fast sweet hilarious