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i I wish I could but waiting is not an option, it's a must. I think my house will be turned upside down if I'm gone 50 hours a week and spend half of the rest of the remaining time needing to study! That would be unfair for the pup. But I have been having puppy fever for a loooong time, probably 2 years now!

Yup, he teaches agility and basic obedience and proper socialization among other things. A neighbor of mine took his lab there once for obedience and the trainer collar popped the dog so hard he was coughing for a good 10 min! Needless to say my neighbor definitely isn't going back there!

I can do prelim OFAs. An agility friend of my just did prelim OFAs on her 6 month old because she felt that her puppy was seemingly uncomfortable when she manipulated her legs a certain way that shouldn't be painful for the dog. Her pup came back with an OFA rating of mildly dysplastic So she won't be doing agility with her pup since it will definitely aggravate the condition. Breeder offered to take the pup back but she's bonded to the pup so that's not an option so breeder offered her another pup from the next litter out of different parents. Both parents were OFA good and now at the breeder's request all puppies in that litter have been OFA'd, so far she just ended up with the short straw, no one else's pup had dysplasia. I'm not going to do agility training before at least 18 months old. All I will do is basic obedience and foundation work, no jumps, no tight turns. Probably get the dog into a few obedience classes for socialization and getting used to the environment and setting up foundation work. I'm not a scientist (I know squat about science) but I do not understand how having expectations such as getting a puppy that's a male is unrealistic. Although you're probably right in that might have an unrealistic image of what I want the puppy to be. *shrug* dogs never turn out the way we expect...but the basic requirements such as sex still stands even if the dog doesn't turn out the way I want. Nia was supposed to be a male, 8-10 lbs (a little bigger), a different color (usually the breeder asks what color you want in Papillons), better social skills and not so so so sensitive but look what I ended up with lol. I wouldn't trade her for the world though. I think so too and I really hope I can get her into something in the near future! There aren't that many agility centers near where I live. There one that's the closest is absolutely terrifying. The trainer uses only choke collars, spray bottles, metal cans with rocks inside and collar pops. I think if the trainer collar popped Nia, she would just wither up and die. She's so soft that any kind of physical correction or even people yelling angrily at her shuts her down and makes her sit there shaking I do have a few centers that bit further that I love though so it may just work out sometime. Edit: I didn't see the Purina Incredible Dog Challenge but I just watched it now Love that little dog! I believe I know which breeder that pup is out of and all her dogs have been doing amazingly in the agility field! I also think it's awesome that she breeds dogs that do agility and sports and not only the show ring because a few Pap people and I have been discussing the dogs that have been bred recently and some of them are losing their energy and drive. Although they don't really have a purpose, they are supposed to be high energy, intelligent dogs that have good drive and can do well in dog sports so I love seeing breeders that do more than walk their dogs around a ring all day. Conformation is fine for Papillons but it would be extra nice if their dogs can be proven to do more than that. There are honestly not very many breeders at all (only a handful, probably less than 15) that I know of that test their dogs in another venue other than just conformation. (sorry I got a little sidetracked about Papillons ).

I really prefer to find a breeder that does OFA or PennHip. I've heard of/seen very few decent breeders that don't do it. Also I most likely will avoid a breeder that doesn't in the first place so I don't think it's a huge problem. All I mean by 2 vet certifications is 2 different vets looking at the x-ray and telling the breeder that their dog is fine, no mild or extreme dysplasia. I don't mean any kind of special processes or anything liek that. I understand and have seen perfectly healthy genetically tested dogs that have produced genetic messes but I believe if I were to go the breeder route, I definitely need to find someone that I'm comfortable with and completely trusts. I don't think it's fair to the breeder, the dog or myself to not be sure about the pup and then commit because the breeder just happened to have dogs at that time or it was convenient for me. Like I said, I will OFA hips and elbows before I start any kind of dog sports just to be safe but I definitely want a puppy, that I know for sure. I absolutely love molding a puppy the way I like and all the joys of watching a puppy grow up. Even if they don't turn out to be the dog that I expected (they rarely do), I still love the process of having a puppy grow up.

I don't have a car right now, can't afford one since I can't work that much (full time student) and have to pay off all the school fees. The problem is this darn area! I want to go to a trial or two sooo badly but I can't get to any of them! The closest I've seen is like a 3 hour's drive away or more! My preference is really to get a car soon and drive down to some trials to really spend some time with working dogs. However, that probably won't happen very soon. My timing never works out with trials either. School tues/wed/thurs all day, work sat, sun, mon. Only day I could go is monday and what are the chances a trial close to me is exactly on Monday? lol. I'm hoping by the summer of next year I could at least drag some friends out with me or possibly drag my mom if she's willing. PennHip is fine with me too, I too have seen breeders with PennHip certification. I'm a bit iffy about vet xrays though, since that's not their specialty and there's no second opinion, I just feel a bit insecure about it. If I really loved a breeder for everything else but they didn't OFA or PennHip I might consider a vet certification if 2 different vets certified the dog. Are you still in Vancouver? Edit: You're welcome to borrow Nia when she's being a little snot but you can't have her She's all miiine. I seriously don't think I could've ended up with a better little dog! Extremely focused, drivey and quick to learn. Plus she has great ball and toy drive too! And little dogs aren't even my thing but I love this girl! A video of this girl fetching

Well I still have 2-3 years to figure out if I'm going to end up with a rescue or a breeder dog. I'm not going to dwell too much on it right now I guess. I think for me, meeting, training and spending time with more of the breed is the most important right now. What I do is know regardless of rescue or breeder, I am looking for a puppy, less than a year old but preferably under 6 months. I'm looking for a male because I currently have a bitch and I prefer to have dog and bitch together instead of bitch/bitch. Also the pup will be taught/has to have good manners with smaller dogs because of Nia, I do not want to endanger her in anyway. I don't think that's too much to ask from either breeder or rescue. I'm sure with either I'll have to wait awhile to find the perfect pup. Also just to be safe, I think regardless of if I get a breeder pup or a rescue pup, I will get their hips and elbows OFA'd before doing any agility or flyball because I do not want to aggravate an existing problem that I didn't know of in the first place. I don't want to push them to go faster and cause the dog pain since dogs are so tolerant and often won't express their pain until it's really bad. Thanks for all the comments everyone.

I absolutely understand. I've seen a few people end up with dogs from great breeders that had terrible health problems too. I'm not 100% against a rescue, if a perfect rescue puppy comes along, I might not be able to say no. The rescues we've had in the past, a few were not planned at all, they just seemed like the right ones and we just knew so that could happen again. I would still like to contact breeders as well though. I do frequently visit the websites of the rescues in the area to see what dogs/puppies they have. When I move out, I'd love to start fostering as well. Since my dad moved out a few years ago, my mom doesn't really like big dogs and I've been unable to convince her to have another dog, let alone a medium sized dog in the house. My dad isn't here to support me either

I didn't say rescue dogs are not healthy at all! I said that I understand most rescues don't have any problems but I feel more secure with dogs that I know the history of THIS TIME AROUND. I said I had a very painful experience with a rescue just very recently so I plan to buy a puppy this time. I don't blame the rescue at all and I will rescue more dogs in the future. Again, I'm not saying there's anything wrong at all with rescue dogs. I'm sorry that I came across to you that way, but that's not my intent at all.....

I do understand getting a puppy is a crap shoot but I just feel a bit better knowing the parents are health tested, and I'm able to see the parents, siblings, possibly offspring to see what kind of dogs have been produced in the past. It's just that after the last rescue experience, I'm going to go with a breeder this time around. I'm sure I will have more rescues in the future though.

Thanks for the reply! My Pap's name is Nia (pronounced nye-ah). I understand the philosophy behind this board I've been lurking for a while haha. I'm looking for a working bred dog, to do some sports but mainly as a pet. I've actually met quite a lot of sport bred collies, some have been great dogs, and some I wouldn't want to own. Can't settle down, won't sleep at night, paces all night long, etc. I haven't met too many working bred collies since I've never been to a herding trial but from the 3 or 4 I have met, they settled much easier, just chilled out beside their owner/handler when they're not doing anything but they were on when it was their turn! Loved those dogs I know about TDBCR and I would actually love to volunteer for them but from checking the website, I couldn't find anything on volunteering other than fostering which I cannot do at this point as I still live in my mom's house and she still has a no dog over 15 lbs rule in her house. I definitely wouldn't mind doings things like walking, playing, socializing, brushing, etc! I'll try to shoo them an email. This is excellent! I love working and spending time with collies! Edit: I just wanted to add though that I'm 90% set on a breeder this time around. We've had rescues in the past and breeder dogs as well but I'd like to raise the pup from 8 weeks old because I love raising pups my own way. But most importantly because of a recent very devastating rescue that my friend and I went through with her puppy. The puppy (sheltie) was rescued at 3 months of age. She had kennel cough the first week, no big deal that's common with rescue dogs. Treated it with antibiotics. A month later this dog has terrible terrible diarrhea, the vet checks her and says she's fine, lots of antibiotics cured it. Puppy still has intermittent diarrhea with vomiting, the vet doesn't know why and they tried a few different kinds of foods. Then she starts urinating blood and ended up with a blood transfusion and she was also vomiting and absolutely refused to eat. More vet care shows she has deformed kidneys which he believed were genetic and her kidneys were shutting down, nothing they could do. She was PTS. She was always a sickly puppy and it was just such a heartbreak to see her suffer through all this. I was with my friend from day one when she fell in love with the puppy at the rescue to the day that she was PTS at the vet's office, we just couldn't be more devastated. She was an awesome puppy, seemed pretty healthy and the vet said she was fine before she came home... I'm not saying all rescue dogs will turn out like this of course and I'm not saying breeder dogs will be any better but I'd like to do everything in my power to avoid a situation like this. Plus I am getting a dog in hopes of doing some sports and herding so structure is very very important with well tested parents the odds are just a bit better. If the puppy doesn't turn out, I have no problems with having just a pet but I don't think I can go through what just happened with the rescue puppy again so soon. I really want to try to take as much precaution as possible to avoid a situation like this, this time around. Maybe in a few more years I'll feel a bit better and get another rescue. I definitely want to do some volunteering and spending more time with the breed though so hopefully the TDBCR member will chime in and let me know how

Hi everyone! I'm new here but I didn't see an intro section so I thought I'd post here. I live in Vancouver currently with a Papillon. In the past we've had a few mixes from retriever to herder to god knows what... Our family has 2 other dogs, a Cavalier and a LH Chi, they belong to my aunt. I'm looking for a BC as my next dog in the next few years (probably 2-3) when I finish college and have a more stable lifestyle. I got into the breed by meeting a lot of awesome dogs at flyball and agility trials I've watched. I've worked with some BCs as well and they're just awesome! Really cuddly and loving, plus I just love their energy and drive. I got a Papillon as my current dog while I admired collies because I'm living with my mom and she has a 15 lb size limit requirement for me lol. Hence I picked a toy breed that is highly energetic, intelligent and fast as well!. Nia could be a great performance dog but unfortunately currently with my work and school schedule I can't seem to find her a class that is the right time I hope I can get her into it in the future. Here's a few pics DSC_6912 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr DSC_6904 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr DSC_6858 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr DSC_6204_087 copy by blahbloo, on Flickr So since I've decided my next dog will be a collie, I've been having lots of problems meeting people and finding breeders to talk to....hoping you guys can help. Basically,...I'm looking for a medium to high energy dog with good drive. I mainly want a stable pet as the most important trait with a good off switch and good nerves but I am looking to get into agility, dog disc and trying herding. The problem is, since I don't drive, I can't make it out to any of the herding trials and I find it really difficult to meet any working collie breeders. All the people that have been referred to me are mostly sport breeders because I met them through flyball/agility.... I tried to find contacts through the CBCA members list and emailed almost all of them in my area but I've only gotten 2 or 3 responses either saying they don't have any dogs for any homes that could potentially do flyball or they want breed owning experience or I don't get any response at all. Can anyone give me some suggestions as to where I can meet working collie people and find contacts/breeders? Or feel free to PM me. Everyone that managed to read through all that gets a cookie! Thanks for listening to me complain and I hope to get to know you guys!