Howdyjabo

I need a guard dog . North Carolina Area Any leads would be appreciated. Karen

nice post(albeit a little windy)Chris. When I first saw the video - it struck me that that's not the way I would do it. Wild stuff makes me nervous- as I have been on the receiving end way too much. But I read that you had a time limit to get it done and get gone- with those parameters I thought your dogs did a fine job .Then I saw the end videos of the dogs working quiet and I had no reservations at all and would be thrilled to own a dog like yours. I like your -put up or shut up- attitude. I know what you are getting yourself and your dogs into breaking cows fast(and selling dogs to farmers) and I personally will not take you up on that. But I respect you for doing it and I know that you aren't doing it for personal benefit. I know several people that break cows for people who buy their dogs, it always a money loosing proposition. But they like the challenge and the idea of getting someone else going using dogs. I doubt "put up or shut up" will get you very far with the proliferation of politically correct people into Border Collies that have no clue about the realities of farming/ranching. IMO- What you(and others like you) are doing has a bigger impact on the Breeds true success than all the trials put together. So just ignore the nay sayers and keep selling your dogs to farmers and breaking their cows.

Ceytle(sp?) M is amazing- and expensive After I get things under control with it- I switch to a liquid horse joint supplement dribbled on their food. alot cheaper and works good.

Sadly- when breeding is based on competition with human judgment as a major factor its bound to warp breeds. Seen it with EVERY animal competition Horses Sheep Goats Cattle Rabbits Chickens and of course Dogs Once a level is met by the majority of competitors(which doesn't take long) the system begins to value extremes-- in breeding extremes are never healthy What to do about it is easy-- have a standard to be met and ALL those who meet that standard win. Its actually being done at sheep shows. Or have the competitions performance based with little human evaluation involved.

As always Thanks

Is the problem with white ears and deafness only with the merle crosses or is it any Border Collie with white ears? I have a totally white pup and a white pup with black patches but one ear is white. This litter is out of a white factored bitch(white with black patches)-- and a male I thought was not white factored. Should I have concerns about either of them?

Well getting her at the airport had nothing to do with me. I just trained her as a stockdog- then sold her. Probably WAY too cheap

Girl........ Didn't know i had a famous dog-- thats one that I bred/trained.

At some time in the past it was common for there to be a dog tax- but working dogs were exempt. Germany is a specific example. The way to distinguish a working dog was to have its tail docked- they figured that it would take effort and ruin the looks of dogs so that only working people would bother to cut the dogs tails off. Little did they know that the breeders would cut the tails off to get the break -so LOTS of breeds either swiched to tail-les or new breeds were started with tail less characteristics.

I have known several people brought up around stock-- worked stock constantly-- and still had no stock sense. And stock didn't like them even when they technically did everything right. My Father-In-law and son are prime examples. Then there are those that just seem to inately know how to relate right from the get go-- and stock like them(very forgiving) even when they do something wrong. My daughter from the day she was born is a prime example. And theres all the people and levels in between--- the more stock work you do the more chance of developing your natural stock sense-- If its just not there you can work stock from now until doomesday and it won't help.

The Stimatzes(Joe and Laura) were in the path- just as they were getting ready for a clinic They do alot out west with educating cattlemen about Border Collies. another forum is accepting cash donations and are auctioning off two working bred dogs. I threw in 30 days training if someone from the Southeast bought one. Forum link- http://www.miklescowdogs.net/forum/forums/...91&posts=16 Send donations to Jod Mikles Rt 4 Box 6550 Elk City, OK 73644 Lauras message--- We got power on tonight. Thank you all for your support. There is nothing like GOOD FRIENDS. Thank you for the calls. Sorry we haven't had the phone up but a day. It was good to talk to some of you this morning. I sure needed the lift. Thanks for the message, Tony, It sure lifted Joes spirits to hear your voice. He is really tired, but thankful we are alive. John K, I'm sure sorry you had to sit that one out with us. But glad you were there to help us out. Pat and Gordon were here until yesterday afternoon. They sure are good folks. Nathan and Maura were great supporters also. Nothing like a big tornado to find out who your friends are. My brother , Tim, worked for the sheriffs dept. Was also the Macksville city cop and a city worker. He kept the town up and running. He will be greatly missed by us all. As usual he was out looking out for us. Trying to keep track of the storms path. Sending out emergency vehicals to the houses that were hit. He got caught between two tornados. He talked to my mom on the cell phone as the storms were closing in on him. They had him on life support until 6 am today. This all doesn't seem real..........My folks are crushed by his loss, but so greatful they moved back and spent the last several months with him only 1 1/2 miles away. He always made us feel safe. We knew he would be there any time we needed him. He leaves a wife and 3 grown childeren and 2 step sons. 5 grandkids. He was 46yrs old. He and Tyler were really close. We will miss him terribly. We are getting a handle on things here. All the out buildings except the garage were lost. The house is in one piece except for the front porch. We have had a lot of help from family and friends and neighbors. Around 10 houses in a row were hit here by Macksville. 3 were totally wiped out. One man was killed in his basement. All the other houses had major damage to the out buildings and corrals. Our dogs were shook and we had to dig alot of them out of the trees, but all are fine. We lost one heifer. On Sat we had several more tornados in the area. One took out the west side of our pasture fence and killed Tylers Sorrel gelding. It was 1/2 mile west of our house. Joes brother lost all outbuildings and 51 head of 900lbs steers. There house survived and they were ok. The house to the south of them was flattend and so was the house to the north. This storm really did a number on our community. But we are pulling together and will make it through. It sure looks alot different here. We are digging holes and pushing the sheds into them. And all the other stuff that was tore up. Our vehichals were in the garage and didint' have any damage. Nathan Barret had his window blown out and John K had a hay trailer fly over his car, but didn't break anything on it. Pat and Gordon had minor damage to their trailer. One of the calves they brought for the seminar looked pretty tough when they went home. But the rest looked fine. Our 4-H dog trailer ended up smashed over the hill east of us. But it is insured and so is the contents. Tyler had a trailer that he bought to haul his goose decoys in. It is upside down sitting on an old farm implement. The top is torn off. The goose decoys are still in it and ok. The trees around here are broke off about half way up. The neighbor to our south, they were broke off about knee high. We were lucky. I had never been in a tornado before. They say this one was about as big as they come. I don't care to be in another one. When we get things settled down around here, I will get the seminar money sent back to those of you that paid in advance. I don't think we will reschedual one this year. I was sure looking forward to meeting all of you. We had alot of new stuff lined up for this year. Maybe next year. THanks again for your prayers and your support. Joe and Laura Stimatze Back to top View user's profile Send private message Display posts from previous:

I'm jumping in here(and I'll probably regret it) because I am hard core and don't think that trialing(as it is now) is enough to preserve the integrity of the breed. BUT I think people are getting the WRONG message. Trialing is not bad- working hard at it is good. Just accept it for what it is AND what it is not. The only harm is when strictly trialing dogs are bred without any real life background in stockwork-over and over and over. The old adage "don't use it/ loose it" fits here. If you are not breeding, trialing is great(if you and the dog are doing it competently)- there are NO downsides to consider-- enjoy it- do great at it- value your(and the dogs) accomplishments. If you are breeding-- cover the bases and either get your dog out into real life high pressure farm/ranch work OR make sure that the prodginy is being placed where they can do the prooving for the strictly trial dogs. Most trialers won't even bother to cultivate a real life market for their pups- its just so much easlier to sell to the trialing/pet crowd than educate a farmer. With good reason-----Farmers fail often for lack of understanding and more often effort. Trialing breeders would have an incentive to work with farmers if the trialers/pet owners buying pups valued that background as much as the trialing background. Making sure that there is a well rounded genetic background preserved in the breed.

I figured I'd post here for all those that wanted to know where I found the glass dog It was at a Dollar General store The one in Siler City only had one left and I promised it to Becca . PS-- nice trial thanks

Sounds like I might just have to come to eat Can't promise- but I'll bring the stuff to make ice cream(if Becca has some elctricity somewhere to hook up to) if I can get away.

I have an older gentleman that lost his dog recently. Hes getting a pup off me. Hes looking for someone in the area to help him(paid) train it to do simple tricks like his old dog did.He enjoyed showing off the dog anyone interested? I'll pass your name along

hardware disease???????? I go with Bill hit it up for all the common problems and see what happens.

I don't really understand the physiological reasons for the calculi that I had-- for all I know it was phosphorus too ????????? Guess there is only one way to find out......... wouldn't hurt anything to try it first-- on an early case.

It could be used as prevention--- better to balance your feed. Its citric acid-- NOT vitamin c Thats the great part of citric acid. Just put a tablespoon in water and dose. If that doesn't work do it again and again ect... Till its resolved. When I had several with problems I just put a cupful in thier small water tank. And refilled it when half full for a couple of days. Worked everytime for me when I was tinkered with castrating goats--- PS don't do it. I figured it out by accident-- I had citric acid and didn't have ammonium . I knew that citric acid broke down calcium deposits(why I had it in the first place). So I used it....... I told my results on a goat list and now its common place for people to use it.

Citric acid works better and is safer and cheaper

Ok poor old GR........ We ran him off the board--He was soooooo innocnet Now shame on the rest of you for running faithful useful posters off--that get tired of the same junk over and over. You didn't even take time to really read anything-- just warped it into some kind of witch hunt. When people like Denise and Eillen feel like they have to defend themselves from attack-- with little or NO backup???? When people continue to say something was said OVER and OVER and OVER---When it was CLEARLY explained that they got the wrong end of the stick. Oh yeah...pet peeve-- whatever happened to appologizing(sp)when you clearly jumped someone in error. I'm done posting....... done with this twisted,warping, backstabbing crap. You probably won't hear it from anyone else but before I quit----for what it is worth I'm sorry Eileen and Denise that somehow you got all this CRAP dumped on you again. I'm sorry that ALL the people that have benefited from your time and experience over the years-- Hung you out to dry AGAIN.

Oh Good Lord------ I have been taken to task for my comment about GR being able "to REDEAM himself with other thoughful posts latter". Geezzzzzz--- The redeam was in reference to his irritating some people and had NOTHING to do with his advice(which I had already posted that I saw nothing wrong with his advice). I apologize to anyone including GR for leaving my comment open to being misconstrued by people out there looking for some way to do it.

Anybody interested in making it a "partial" work day??? I think it would be nice ...... those not into manual labor could COOK for the rest of us:)

"<< As for "outing" him as an Open Ranch handler, I find that in poor taste. >>" Need to go back and reread the posts...... I was the one who used the term "outing" and it wasn't in refference to GR. It was in refference to "not signing your name"-- and that I didn't care-- that they would eventually "out" themselves as lieing or exagerating their background with or without a signature. In that case "outting"'s negative connotation is appropriate. GR was just asked to share his background-- which again he should have been asked to share that. No one ever tried to "out "(ie with a negagtive connotation) GR .

The latest tounge in cheek-- FYI resumes Gave me an idea--- Isn't there a way to make "something" come up all on its own at the bottom of every post???? Maybe it would help people to keep track or hear in the first place what the background on everyone is.Gotta admit that I loose track of who's who when I can't put a face to them all. It would help people target their advice as well as "pidgion" whole the advice given. My background would read Tinkered sucessfully with trialing up to Open years ago. Use dogs daily on my preconditioning opperation/fresh bulls 400-1000 lbs.

I don't think that I have ever had a dog that at one point I didn't put up for a month or so in total disgust.The Worthless mutts. And thats even after they had the outrun lift and fetch down. Not all--- but most ended up being pretty darn good dogs. Thinking back I keep wondering if we didn't start "clicking" again BECAUSE I had given up on them and was just useing them for whatever help they could give me. I defeitly can say that getting frustrated and pushing for what I wanted didn't get me anywhere I wanted to be. Not saying I don't keep actively working on things--I just have a "oh well" attitude on the STOCK WORK seems to be working well. I also remember when I first started going places with my dog it would dissapoint me when things didn't go too well-- It was like I had to proove my dogs were perfect.. MISTAKE You can proove they are perfect years down the road when it really means something. Another reason why I think it is a mistake rushing into trialing.