waffles

Wow. I wish I had someone around here like that to hire for those days where we are just too busy to get out enough. Any chance you could give me a website for him? (PM if you need)

I agree that it is a very long time for any BC to be alone. Plus running (though it may be questionable at his age) 2 miles a day could mean only 20 minutes of exercise, depending on how fast you're running him. At 6 months of age less than 30 minutes of exercise/attention just does not seem like a lot. Leaving a BC alone in a yard is pretty much no different than in a crate or pen. They will be bored regardless and eventually can lead to many problems. I would hire a dog walker to come mid day or even try a daycare (just be careful about where you take him, do a lot of research if you do decide that route and I would only suggest it as a last option). I think at his age a nice 30 min walk mid day with a dog walker would be great for him to break up the day in addition to more time with you morning/evening. Any chance of seeing some photos of your little pup?

You said it perfectly. Of course most everyone will tell you to get a Border Collie because this is a BC Board and we all have them but you definitely need to go out and meet some of each breed to get to know them better. My boyfriend had a red heeler when he was younger. I loved him- smart, bull headed, athletic and cute on top of it. Every dog is definitely what you put into it. My boyfriends dog would have been a total out of control mess without the proper guidance, same goes for any high energy smart dog. I wouldn't though, get caught up on how smart BC's are. If you have never trained/worked with one you may not understand how different it can be from other dogs. Many people tell me my dog must have trained himself or my favorite: "it is like he speaks English"...no, that is the result of a lot of hard work and training. Anyways, I wish you luck, both breeds in my opinion are great but you really need to do your research to find the dog that is right for what you need.

One suggestion is to brush him out a lot instead of shaving. Chances are he has a double coat and shaving him is not going to make him cooler. Dogs don't sweat from their skin as I am sure you know and with no fur to protect his skin he is more likely to have damage from the sun plus his coat will not grow back nicely at the end of summer. I have worked in a grooming shop and people always want their dogs shaved thinking it is helping the dog when it is not. If you use a groomer, chances are they use a high power dryer (we call it a blaster) which will get a lot of that coat off of him plus you can ask for a good brush out. Then you can continue to maintain it at home (we love the furminator, you wouldn't believe the hair it gets out). I can't imagine having a dog in the south, I felt bad for my guy last summer and our summers in NY are not nearly like yours. We did a whole lot of swimming and many short outings for exercise.

I don't know if you are trying to be snippy with me but no, I don't have facts for why exercise is good for your dog! It is common knowledge. Why do you think people walk their dogs and there are so many dog daycares, parks, toys, treadmills for dogs, etc? Because exercise isn't good for dogs and they're better off sitting around on the couch? Maybe in this case lack of exercise was not the issue, I only suggested it may be. I don't know any canine professional who would tell you that you are walking, training, playing, and running with your dog too much and you need to exercise them less to help their behavior. I don't know any dog owner who would say their dog is better off sitting around all day bored. There is a reason people say a tired dog is a good dog. If you want some kind of proven scientific study then go look it up yourself. All the proof I need is next to me now sleeping! Also, just because you don't think jumping on people, barking incessantly, pulling on a leash, chewing furniture, dumping garbage cans, etc may not be a "behavioral" problem does not mean it isn't one. I know plenty of people who let their dogs do things that I would in no way tolerate with my dog. To each their own I guess.

Thanks guys! I definitely got some help from this board as well. I am also lucky that we have a lot of friends and family with bombproof, rude, annoying, friendly dogs who didn't mind us bringing our snappy grouchy dog over. There were plenty of times where Levi had to be separated so he could get a break in a basement or the car but if it weren't for some of the dogs we know I may never have had the confidence to really push him. It didn't take long to realize that he was not out to fight dogs but that he was indeed the more polite dog who taught other dogs how to interact with a strange dog. It has been so fun to watch him gain confidence and be okay in the presence of other dogs. My brother in-law has a reactive Boston Terrier that used to lunge at Levi's neck whenever Levi showed his teeth. Now, he has taught the Boston how to back off when told to and now they actually go swimming in the creek together, tugging on the same stick and sniffing the same spots side by side. I never gave up thinking that dogs are naturally social and should be able to interact with each other and have better lives when they have dog friends.

Some of you may remember that our boy Levi was petrified of other dogs when we got him a year and a half ago. He was already a year and a half old at the time, raised outside on a farm with his only exposure to other dogs being the ones he lived with. The male dogs were not nice to him. So when we brought him home he would cower, growl, tail tucked to his belly at the sight of any dog within a few houses of us. We would be on a walk and he was terrified of any dog, no matter size or demeanor, he wanted nothing to do with them. In the time we have had him he has met hundreds of dogs of all kinds. Most people would have thought he was on the edge of fear aggressive (even though he has never harmed a dog) with dogs but we worked endlessly with him to build his confidence and he made slow steady progress. It took 5 months before he even showed interest on his own in another dog. He quickly got to the point of tolerating polite dogs but couldn't stand annoying rude dogs. Over time he has built up a lot more patience for rude dogs (mostly because he knows we will step in before he has to). We can take him to friends and family's houses and he can get along with dogs he originally hated in the beginning. He has no problem now hiking, swimming and playing ball with other dogs around but pretty much ignores them the whole time. But, I always said I secretly wanted him to have 1 friend, just 1 dog he could play with-actually roughhouse with. I loved that he was okay with almost all dogs and that was more than enough for me. I was just happy he wasn't living in fear every time we left the house that he might have to meet a strange dog. However... last night, we saw him for the first time ever... play! with a dog!!! Typically if a dog tried to play with him he would chase them off or freeze and whine out of anxiety. But, we just moved to a rural area with land and our neighbors 9 month old female husky (a dog that would have been his worst nightmare before) kind of wanders all over. They met once last week and all was fine but she came over last night when we were out and in 5 minutes they were romping, jumping, chasing, nibbling ears, punching each other...I couldn't believe what was happening and it went on for 20min til it was dark. All the hard work we did had already paid off but this was icing on the cake. This was truly unbelievable. He looked like a puppy, so blissfully happy. We spent so much time doing LAT, exposing him to situations to challenge him and making sure we stepped in when he was about to be overwhelmed. I have on countless occasions grabbed strangers dogs that were barreling at him and given owners a lesson on why they shouldn't allow their dogs to run up to strangers. It was not always easy and he still meets dogs every so often he doesn't care for,, he is still a border collie that has a large personal space bubble with dogs. I wanted to give a little hope and inspiration for others who have fearful dogs. With a lot of patience and the right knowledge (my dog has taught me a lot!) you really can bring your dog up to a level where you both can enjoy life together more. Don't be afraid to push yourself and your dog, just know your limits. I remember a lot of people told me I should just deal with his fear cause that was just how he was. I did not think that was fair to my dog. He shouldn't live in fear and his life is 100x's better now. He doesn't have to stay home when we go somewhere with other dogs and he is so much more confident.

If they are the same ones my local store sells they are made by Pet Naturals and they have L-Theanine in them. When we first discovered Levi was petrified of fireworks I researched every calming product out there and Theanine kept coming up as one of the best natural remedies that worked. I went to our local health food store and got a bottle of L-Theanine (these are tablets for humans and he gets one or 2 a day when we hear fireworks). I did see a noticeable difference. Everything I read said it can take a couple weeks to really see a difference but in a couple days he was able to hear fireworks and be able to eat food and be out of hiding in the house, something that wasn't happening before. The human tablets are much cheaper in the long run than the treats and you can give a higher dosage if needed.

I say go and visit him at least. His photos are seriously adorable. I am only an hour and a half away, if I were looking for a second dog I would be visiting him too! I think 6 is a great age (does the rescue know his actual age, he may be younger even) and it sounds like he has some basic obedience so he may be easy to continue training with. I am a believer that dogs do find you even if they are not the exact 'type' you originally set out to get.

Your pup isn't anti-social, she is really fearful. I don't know what kind of socialization class you went to but there is no way I would go to one where my dog was allowed to hide and get cornered repeatedly by other dogs who are barking and snapping at my dog. This is just a set up to make her more fearful. The humans should intervene immediately and remove the annoying dog from your dogs face. This way your pup will learn that she does not need to go overboard with her reactions because someone will step in for her. She should not have to fend off a big barking lab for that long on her own. Don't allow your fearful pup to be cornered and irritated over and over again by a rude dog. I would also suggest not sitting down during a social class, this just causes dogs to be cornered. If you ever go to a dog park and see all the owners standing still at the doorway talking, you will see a lot of times dogs all pooled up there as well. Move and walk around, it will keep the dogs moving and will help get your dog out from hiding under a chair and getting bullied.

One solution to the night time barking could be crating them at night in your home. Not sure if this is what you do already when you say they take turns being inside at night. But crating 4 in the house or even putting a gate up so they stay in a kitchen or something shouldn't be too much of a hassle as opposed to the barking. Your dogs could be calmer in the house without having to hear coyotes all night long. I guess it's up to you which is more inconvenient. BTW, the photo in your profile is adorable!

It is a well accepted idea that lack of exercise in dogs leads to behavioral problems...barking being one of them. I don't know any well behaved dog that does absolutely nothing all day everyday. All dogs need some form of exercise to be happy and a happy dog is not a neurotic barking dog.

I personally do not think they have that much influence here in the US. I think a lot of people think PETA is like the local SPCA- a place to report extreme animal cruelty. I hear people say a lot "you should report them to PETA!" as if PETA has jurisdiction to do anything or anything to do with animal cruelty investigations at all. Then there are a lot of people who just view them as an extremist group and they make other people who are involved in animal rescue look like a bunch of wack job crazy people. Years ago I thought of PETA as being more about veganism and throwing paint on fur wearers but now it seems like they are trying to change their image. For me, they will always be an extremist group who has no merit though.

Not sure if someone already suggested this, but put a sign on your front door. But write it as if the dog were talking, So for example - (put a photo of Rudder at the top) "Hi guys! I am in training right now and am still very shy about meeting people. I would love it if you would ignore me when you first come inside so I do not get scared. If you ignore more for a while I promise I will eventually warm up to you and we can be friends! Thanks for helping me learn that people are nice." Typically people don't like to be "told" to do or not to do something and will just blow you off thinking they know better than you do. But if you make it sound like the dog is personally asking them to do something then people seem to take it better. BTW the photo on the couch is adorable!

What is a normal day for your dogs? You say they work, do they do so every day? Most of the time excessive barking is an outcome (that is why correcting alone typically does not work) of something else such as lack of exercise, lack of mental stimulation or sometimes too much stimulation. Take a look around at your dogs daily activities and see if there is anything that can be changed to make them not bark so much. A tired dog typically will not bark on end all the time. Are they barking because they are stressed, can you teach them to be calm at certain times? Is there a reason they are in a kennel while you are out? Does it seem like they are barking to be with you?

First comment, can I be this persons dog? Chiropractor appointments and deep tissue massages? I wish I could afford that for myself! Second, I agree that if the dog needs that kind of maintenance then maybe it is time to find other fun outlets to do together. Even if the dog seems to enjoy agility he may very well not enjoy needing chiro appointments and massages.

I want to second this as well! After reading about his behavior towards strangers I definitely think it is in everyone's best interest to seek out a true professional. You said he is unpredictable but chances are he is very predictable, you just haven't had him long enough to see what the triggers are and how to see them before they even happen. This is something a professional can sort out with you. Most people can't pick up on the tiny signals dogs give through their body language. Keep us posted though on what happens in the future. Keep up the good work.

The rescue you got him from, did they ever see him around other friendly dogs off leash? Your dog may just display this behavior while on a leash. I'm not saying he isn't dog aggressive but many times what you describe is often just a dog reacting badly on a leash and is over exciting and definitely can lead to aggression (pulling and adding tension on the leash is just going to make it worse). Seek professional help obviously if you can't get a handle on it but I would first contact the rescue and ask if he was fostered in a home with other dogs (I would be surprised if the rescue did not test him with other dogs before adopting him out). Then I would do what others have said and start working with him at a distance where he is not reacting or fixating yet on the dog (even if it is 600ft away as you say).

I would have called my dog, leashed him or had him in a down/stay. I would have made sure the other dog did not approach my dog and waited for the dogs owner to come get their dog. I have personally grabbed dogs by their collar and walked them back to their owners. I find it rude when other people allow their dogs to run up to my dog off leash. It does not matter whether or not my dog is on leash or not, I would never allow him to run up to another dog. People should ask first if it is okay to let their dog approach but unfortunately most people allow their dog to run full speed (while the owner is of course yelling the dogs name 10x, or shouting 'he's friendly') at a strangers dog. The best thing to do is avoid the situation. Either get a good recall and down/stay on your dog, keep your dog on a leash, or use a basket muzzle. Other peoples ignorance can cost you $ and ultimately now you know better. Oh, if I were you I would have apologized and offered to pay vet fees if the owner felt it necessary to see one. In the end it was rude of the owner to allow their dog to bark like that, but you know your dog and should have avoided the situation all together.

I know someone who feeds their senior dog the Science Diet for seniors...the first ingredient is CORN! SD is junk, you can get the same low grade food for cheaper at the grocery store if that is what you want to feed. Ideally, you want to feed a food with no corn (it is just a filler), no by-products, and has meat as the first ingredient (or 1st few ingredients). There are plenty of affordable grain-free foods on the market, and to be honest, it is just one cost of owning a dog. I think it is too important to not feed a dog well, why else put all the other money, time, and love into an animal if you are just going to feed it junk?

I have heard them called "wisdom bumps" and they have nothing to do with the dogs intelligence. I have seen them on a few boxers, not sure if they are more common in other breeds.

When working at a grooming salon, I would say at least 1/3 of dogs did not have front dew claws, I would almost wanna say closer to half did not have them. I think most breeders remove them because it is one less nail for the owners to cut (because ya know, it is so much work!). We also would see a lot of irresponsible people come in with dogs who had dew claws grown into the skin. Especially with long haired dogs where people couldn't see (and wouldn't check) that it had curled into the skin.

You really should talk to your vet about a prescription for your dog. It is obvious that he is terrified and could really hurt himself. If you read through this thread people have given suggestions on what to ask for and what not to use. My dog is not destructive during fireworks but is very fearful. The thundershirt with L-Theanine (found at health food stores) took some of the edge off. This may not be enough to help your dog though, and you should definitely consult with your vet.

I am definitely going to order a Thundershirt today (hopefully in time for the 4th of July weekend). I was also looking at Rescue Remedy and was wondering if anyone had any input? I am not opposed to using a prescription medication but was hoping that a combination of more "natural" things (Thundershirt + herbal supplement + safe place, etc) would work. If not, then I would talk to my vet if all else failed. Besides Rescue Remedy (which had mixed reviews) does anyone use anything else that works for their dogs?

Root Beer: Thank you so much for your input. I have so much to think about now. Hopefully tonight will go better than last night. I like your crate idea before going outside and going out multiple times in a row. If I am home tonight before it gets fully dark I plan to take him out during sunset, after sunset, and then when it is completely dark. I can't thank everyone enough for the advice and making me feel not so alone in this. I'm glad that fireworks season is short and hopefully he never develops a fear of thunderstorms which we get frequently here!