LittleFoxx

It might be! Although my boys tend to be great on leash, the girls not always so. Another thing to try is have her drag the leash around the house and places she is already familiar with. (just make sure she doesn't get it caught on anything) It's another way of getting used to having the leash on. Most of my dogs are pretty good with whistle and verbal commands, I go back and forth but I always whistle to bring them back, so I'm sure Rikki picked that up just from watching and coming back with one of the other dogs. Just like she learned your "run" command, overtime you'll notice she will pick up things, learn words and actions that were never taught but simply something she observed and remembered as it was going on. It's a lot like how you would teach a toddler. IE: you say "time for bed" and then take him up to bed to go to sleep. He'll learn what "bed" is and what it's for just from you talking/telling him what is going on. It's not like we take him and sit him on the bed and say "this is your bed, you sleep in it" (well ok maybe some parents might..) but in all reality he'll learn a lot faster with the whole talking/telling him what is going on as the action is going on or the object you are talking about is right there being used. My dogs have learned many words and actions from doing just that. Time for bed is one of them. It was never a formal command just something I said when I was taking them to bed. Now when I say time for bed they go up stairs to their bed without needing me to accompany them. I'm sure it's helpful that I talk a LOT already, so it was something I just naturally did. Try that with Rikki too, tell her whats going on in everyday situations and places. I know a lot of formal training will say to use one word and say it in a firm clear voice and obviously you don't want to have an entire conversation about how it's time to go to sleep and all good little pups need to be snug in their beds etc.. (that's just too much talking and it's likely to go in one ear and out the other causing the adorable puppy head tilt) Personally I always try to stick around 2-3 words. BC's are always learning and picking up on new things, it's pretty neat.

@ Anna reguarding Rikki as I never really got a chance to address the original problem.. (pending any actual health issues) While all dogs have their own personality(specially BC's), for the most part the BC's I raised as puppies all learned from experiences and watching more than any type of strict formal training. Strict/formal type training can be boring and/or overwhelming to them. Specially ones that are not food motivated.. I think it is harder to motivate a raw fed pup as it already gets the best for it's meals so why should it work for a piece of cheese/hot dog. The very best food reward I have used is dehydrated/freeze dried liver (if you make your own sprinkle anise on it beforehand, that makes it 100times more appealing to them) The clicker I mailed out to you with everything should have had instructions (they are printed in the inside of the cardboard part) she already knew that click ment she did something right and was rewarded (sometimes liver-sometimes just a scratch/pet as she was very affectionate) come,stay,sit,down were all things I worked on but I would do them as we were playing outside. You can incorporate all sorts of things while playing without any specific training at all. By playing I mean running around with her siblings, chasing her toys and my other BC's, stalking Sasuke, (I think you've seen the posted videos of her playing before she came home?)oh and she loooved to climb out of that x-pen... She had free run of the property (while I was outside and obviously not where the livestock is) Since she was the last to go home (because we waited until after Easter to fly her) she probably received more freedom/attention then the other pups. I whistle a lot for commands, perhaps you can try that with Rikki. Other than that the only thing I can think of is, I'm on a farm with more land and less noise then a suburban area. While I did take her and all the pups to several outings, if you are putting her in a dog/public park type setting, at this age it just might be too stimulating for her to see all that's going on and be expected to walk properly on a leash. Although I have had some trouble makers most always a BC pup follows right along without being attached to a leash (obviously if this is not a safe/practical option for you, don't do it) but getting them to focus on you, your guidance/enthusiasm/confidence definitely helps without the need for a leash. (Luci is 100% at staying right by my side on trail walks or rides but the second I clip a leash on her she tends to wander, pull, stop etc. I have no idea why she does this.. A little girl once came up to us as we were heading back to the car and asked if she could "walk" her. Sure enough Luci followed that little girl around while she was holding the leash. The second I had the leash back again she was pulling to go to the car.. Such a brat!! or bad training on my part maybe but at least I know she is perfect off lead and obviously understands the "concept" of a leash!) I guess that really isn't relevant other then some dogs are better off leash then on. I wish I knew exactly what you are trying to get from her and could tell you a sure fix or at least the reason why she is behaving the way she is. She was definitely an energetic, driven and smart little pup here in this environment, not only that but she was really affectionate too. I'm hoping with the added liver/organ meat to her diet(where a large portion of the nutrients and vitamins needed come from) She will start to pick back up energy and attention wise.

That's wonderful to hear =) I'm not trying to convince you at all (nor anyone else for that matter) It's painfully obvious from the responses which are constructive criticism and which are not. We don't have nearly that much land but again I don't raise crops other then what's consumed by my family. I have animals, not all of which a 5yr old can be expected to safely tend to. Daily(some twice per day) there are dairy goats (I have 20 or so but the number varies during/after kidding) that are milked, eggs to be collected, bottle feeding calves, turning out the horses in the AM rounding them up and stall them in the PM, feeding everyone and of course providing the prey diet(not trying to go into graphic details..) and daily work/activity for the BC's. There is not a neighbor around that is willing to do that kind of work for free. To me it's a lot of work, but I love it and I knew the sacrifices that came with it (IE: not being able to leave for more then a day or so without making arrangements) I guess it can be considered a "hobby farm" as I do not make a huge profit, really any that I do goes right back into the care/wellbeing/enrichment of the animals. You can keep telling me until the cows come home (yes, I thought this was funny)that it's possible to make time, but in if it would sacrifice the care/wellbeing of any one of my animals or my husband and son I simply will not do it. @ Lani thanks for the info @ Journey I understand your point (although I don't personally believe that a dog worth breeding is only related to stock work- and NO I am NOT referring to a dogs visual appearance at all) @ Tea Thank you very much your comment definitely paints trialing in a different light =) @ Root Beer I honestly did not know that other venues had the same activities/sports as AKC, that is good to know! @ Nancy a 4hr drive is doable. Thank you for letting me know as it is far enough in advance to make minor arrangements to try and at least make one day of the trials.

How many people take care of a large farm? If one person leaves/goes out of town is there another person to help out/ take their place? For my family only 2 adults; my husband (who works elsewhere) and me live here along with my 5yr old son. If I leave for more then a day that means my husband has to take off work. As I said if there are trials nearby within a couple hrs drive I would love to know so I can go! At the very least to see everything, meet other BC's and new people.

Ok, in all seriousness this will have to be the last time I respond here. I am not a "forum" type person, I just don't have the time to sit and watch a thread all day for comments addressed to me. As you can see I have been a "member" of this for a couple yrs but these are my first posts... Not only that but to address me in another persons question seems wrong/off topic? Feel free to email me though if there is anything else I can help out or address if anyone has concerns. @ mum24dogs I personally don't have a problem with Astra dogs. I went to Scotland to get a couple dogs. Janet was kind enough to take me around to several open and nursery trials across Scotland and the UK that she was running her dogs in. I don't see how she is breeding agility/sport dogs as her dogs are all Sheepdogs and are trained for such on her flock of Dorper Sheep. She holds training clinics to start dogs on sheep. I have NEVER seen or known her to run any type of agility or dog sports with her dogs. Perhaps lots of people that buy her dogs run them in agility? I don't know much about agility people/dogs, I personally don't have time to be competitive in dog agility. Cheeta (already has training) was bred to Dale (the boy who placed 6th/30+ at his first nursery trial I was at) I kept a male out of this litter and I couldn't be more please with him. He already does great with the goats at 6months. This is just my personal experience with the "Astra" dogs. @ Mark I said it was only a matter of time before there would be a test available for the US. I did not say there is one now. I don't know why you are being negative about it. I for one am all for the research and development of an epilepsy test as it hits close to home for me. I have both and aunt and uncle with epilepsy and one of my BC's(not my lines) died from a grand mal seizure due to epilepsy. So yes they may have not proven the markers for BC's yet but my goodness the more research and development done on the subject the closer we will get to being able to monitor and wipe it out of our beloved BC breed. @ Mark again.. No WHERE does it say I think there are only 4 genetic traits for a good stock dog.... it says (and this is taken direct from my site on a page that has not been updated for at least 2yrs..) ""The other behavior traits that make a Border Collie have a lot to do with the origins. What type of dog that went into making the Border Collie breed. The problem that lies in here is that, for the exact right traits we need a happy medium. We wouldn't want a Border Collie that has so much Eye the he freezes, or so little or so much power that he can't move the herd or goes in so strong that he scatters them. I don't know the exact Alleles for each of these traits, I know that there are quite a few that go into each trait. I will list the ones that I do know and I will add more as I learn them."" I specifically stated I don't know the exact Alleles and that there are quiet a few.. not 4... I also said I would list the ones I know and add more as I learn.. The research I had read over was: Scott, J. P., & Fuller, J. L. "Genetics and the Social Behaviour of the Dog" Burns, M and Fraser, M.N. "Genetics of the Dog. The Basis of Successful Breeding." Kelley, R.B. "Sheep Dogs. Their Breeding, Maintenance and Training." Burns, M. "The Mutual Behaviour of Sheep and Sheepdogs in Ghana." Maybe I had "dumbed" it down a bit too much as others have suggested in the past, I did write that a couple years ago and hadn't really gotten a chance to go into more depth and update the website. But by all means I never said that was only 4 simple traits if anything I said there was more then just the herding instinct that makes up a good sheepdog and that I would list what I had found out so far.. @ Mark.. I said my generalizations were based on the breeders and trialers overseas.. You will find that a large portion of shepherds there feel their dogs are merely tools. While they may care for the dog at the end of the day they are still a tool to help them get the job done. Like I said the dogs and the handlers were great to watch they are much different then over here. @ Megan I went to Scotland last fall by my self and my husband stayed home with everyone, in which he had to take time off for work. We took a family vacation 2 yrs ago to go to KS (which was only 4 days). It was our vacation since it is quite costly to get someone to take care of everyone while we are away. Lexington is approx. 7hrs away from me which would require more then just a one day trip. But in all seriousness I would like to go to trials around here (NE Ohio) I'm not even sure where/when the closest one would be, but if it's less then a couple hrs drive I most certainly would go. I know many full time rancher/farmers go, the biggest problem for me is I am on a SMALL farm there is only me, my son and my husband. The later two require more work the animals do!!! (the smiley thing is kind of neat) Really though I am not trying to avoid it or make excuses I am all the willing to go with in my means. @ Lani I guess awesome is in the eyes of the beholder. Luci is my baby I love her more then one can imagine. She is such an amazing girl not just in working abilities but personality and intelligence too. I guess I should add "I think" to my opinions on my dogs. I did know the titles had other prefixes in front, the generation software had very limited space. Also I was not sure if that was a major point needed when listing pedigree info. If it is I will try and find a better software that allows me to fill in all the details. @ Journey Luci is in NO way related to an Astra dog or Astra kennels. Her lines are from Wales, well at least a portion of it. @ Smalahundur So I take it not a single person on this board runs their BC in agility? Because as far as I know the dog sports are done by the AKC? Like I said, I don't think the herding/working ability of the BC should be lost but I am not going to demonize those who do sports with their BC's.... If that is considered a red flag so be it. *edited to add a response to Smalahundur*

Sorry I guess your right I have not spent time with trial winning BC breeders here in the states only over in the UK. And even there it was a very brief period and only a dozen or so. It is a bit large on my part to guarantee that, but it is my opinion based on what I have seen. I am preserving the working ability in my dogs. I have not/will not cross them with undriven/non-herding ability BC's I am aware that this is not on the same scale as what other people consider a working BC. Again this is just my opinion. If it's not up to other people's standards then I imagine they will go somewhere else to buy a puppy. As I said I do not raise more then 2 (on average) litters per year. I am not a LARGE scale breeder nor would I want to be. @ Crocker I did not mean to put down a TRUE ISDS style working BC. Yes I have been to ISDS trials (most recent was this past fall)I have plenty of pictures posted of the trials and the BC's there and runs. I respect them and their handlers, it is obvious that it takes time, dedication and intense training for both dog and handler. The reason I worded it so harshly is because to me, the hostility in the "grrr Trial Winning BC's ONLY!" people are no different the the "grrr AKC top multi-CH Show BC's ONLY!" people. Both groups spend a large amount of time and dedication to produce a BC on either side of the fence (same goes for spot BC's) and preserve the breed for their own purposes. I am not breeding for either as I don't see a BC's only worth based on such extremes. My puppies do go on to working homes, agility homes, used for SAR, and therapy work. They have not gone to AKC show homes and they have not gone on to competitive trial homes. They are not sold to people only looking for a "Candy Colored" BC. Again I am not a large scale breeder, but I do health test all my dogs and all the puppies. Like I said I have a 4 page law binding contract just to make sure people understand what they are getting and to prevent one of my puppies going to the wrong person. If any of my previous comments makes me a bad person or bad "breeder" in your eyes the only thing I can do is invite people to talk to me, visit me, my dogs or their offspring. You are more then welcome to form your own opinion. I'm sorry I did not read the "read this first" section as I got dragged into this... Anna again I'm sorry you are having training issues with Rikki, at first it seemed like it could have been a health issue, but from everything you said it is likely overwork/stimulation, she is after all only a 4month old pup. (ps she was raised/trained offleash as all my BC's are, it may take her some time to learn how to enjoy walking on a leash) By all means if you have more problems/questions you only need to call/email me and I will work with you to come up with a solution. I am not against anyone going other places for help or other opinions but on the same token I wish I would have known so I could help instead of being blindsided by comments made on a forum.

I guess I will try and "address" everything one last time.. "(and cows and horses)" are in ( ) because I have them here but they are not "worked" by my BC's. I did have Kuma watch one of the gates for several days to keep the horses in because they kept getting out until it was fixed. But I do not consider that working horses. I am generally against BC's working horses but I thoroughly offended someone once when I refused to sell them a BC to work (corral/move) trained horses so I try find out more when people say their dogs work horses. @ Sue You're right I guess I am in the dark when it comes to the value of herding trials. While I have been to several opens and nursery trials (only in Scotland, Wales and other parts of the UK) I do not place trial abilities on the top of my priorities when raising my dogs and my puppies. I do apologize if it is thought that it should be the top/only priority with BC’s but this is a difference in opinions. I would never say all of my dogs would be top notch trial dogs in opens, nursery or otherwise “if only I had time to train them” one can only speculate a dogs ability without actually proving it. I do not place their values on that. I do tell people who are specifically looking for a dog to take to trial whether I think a puppy from a specific litter would have potential or not because that is all I can do. Maybe not all the people on this board are snide/rude but they are certainly opinionated on topics and I hate to get dragged into something where I feel the need to defend myself from comments that are untrue. I agree color isn’t all there is to genetics. But little known to everyone else “color” does play an important role in human diseases (look it up, it is fascinating) and otherwise. Not only color but I have done the research on what traits genetics came into play to develop the perfect herding dog. Crouch from Spaniel breeds, Eye from Pointer/Setter breeds herd/chase originating from wolves. I have done EXSTENSIVE research on Canine Juv. Epilepsy even before one of my dogs was diagnosed with it. Did you know there is a well-known sport/agility breeder pumping out hundreds of epileptic (carriers and otherwise) BC’s each year. It can be traced to a single litter that they kept and started their kennel with. If someone asks who and for the research I have done I am more then willing to provide it, but I will not plaster it all over the internet just to bad mouth someone I do not know or never met. There is a now DNA test for canine epilepsy that has been worked on and tested, it is only a matter of time before it will be available here in the US.. So yes color genetics are neat but by all means it is not the only thing, I guess it isn’t apparent from others that do not know me or the work I have researched. @ Julie I could not tell if you were directing everything you said to me or to the truly bad breeders out there that are pumping out “fancy/rare” dogs and charging more based on looks then ability. That is not something I practice or condone with any dog, as their value is not based on looks. I base my dog’s value on their ability to help me and what I personally see in them. I believe that people should be able to experience the BC breed without having to break the bank on a top notch trial winner. Not everyone wants a high end working BC. Some just want a family dog to help on their farm or an active dog to keep them company/busy. I know there are people that will say “they should just find another breed then” but I don’t think it’s fair to deny the intelligence and truly unique qualities of a BC just because there are those out there that think BCs are only needed for one purpose. I can guarantee I spend more time with just one of my puppies then a top notch high end trial winning BC breeder does. This is because to me they are not just dogs but family. They provide us with more than just work and companionship. Honestly I probably respect them more than I do most people. The one thing that I always believe in is that the herding instincts and all the traits that go into a BC should not be breed out or lost. This should be evident, but I guess I am not clear enough on my site. Again it goes back to I assume people ask and talk to me before forming opinions. (also I don’t raise cattle other than our few used for my family only, so I could never say what is looked for in a cattle BC. The ones I have watched work are always gritty/tough and do bite to get a steer to move. As far as the herding kids comment, that is NOT what to look for in a BC nor does it qualify a BC as a good worker. As I said the ONLY BC I have that herds my son is going on 11yrs and she has never been bred for that very reason) @ whomever keeps asking about the sheep. Several of my dogs have/do work sheep just not my own. Although I did pick up a trio of Icelandic lambs this year, they are not worked. The swaledale sheep photo is not my own and yes I do have permission to use it. As I said before my site started out as a site dedicated to the BC breed, my dogs and genetics it was not established to “sell” puppies as I only have on average 2 litters a year… @ everyone else who feels the need to bash my dogs or me.. I do believe that respect and reputation is earned not given, but I don’t expect people to form opinions without even knowing my dogs, me or what I do. It truly pains me to read negative things (which simply aren’t true) and when I have several people sending me a message stating there is drama going on about my dogs or me I feel the need to at least defend them since they cannot defend themselves. Again I do not spend time on forums as I try to avoid overly opinionated (not saying that is anyone specific, just from my experience that is always present in forums) and drama filled discussions. For anyone that has feedback to give me or questions to ask please feel free to contact me personally =) I ALWAYS love to talk about BC’s, genetics, my animals or most animals for that fact. I will always try respect others opinions even if I do not always agree. The best I can hope for is that they are fair and unbiast.

I start each dogs description with their color because half the site is dedicated to the genetics (color, coat length, traits etc) in the BC. As I said before I find genetics interesting and although it is not fully completed I had the genetic info on the site far before added any litters for sale. The only odd colored BC would be Kuma the sable lilac. The way I found him was because I was looking for bloodlines close to Angels (high drive but hopefully not too neurotic this time)He just happened to be a sable lilac(he was not sold as that nor was that listed on his ABCA papers) I happened to notice his adult coat wasn't the typical red/chocolate/lilac color and I sent DNA in to have him color tested. (back to the enjoying genetics part) I went to Scotland to pickup both Cheeta and Rei(the merles) Cheeta is an already trained sheepdog and did hillwork. She was bred to Dale who placed 6th at his first Nursery trial in Yorkshire (which I was at) and that was my litter from Nov. The black tri pup was the one I kept out of the litter and he has already started on goats (earlier then I normally start the dogs) Now you're right Eagle does look like a merle x merle cross but she's not she has the harlequin modifier (think great danes) she came from B24 Ranch in KS. (look up their website if you must but they also work their dogs, I watched them work before buying her.) SHe was bought for her working ability as well as her "color" as I am partial to piebald/white BC's it in no way affects their working ability... Anyways the work with Harlequin is being done by Dr. Leigh Ann Clark not just for the "color" aspect but because of the correlation with Alzheimer's. Like I said I do enjoy genetics which is why I placed emphasis in it on the site. Different colored dogs most certainly do NOT make money or what ever you may think... Most people do NOT want a Border Collie that is different.. Chocolates, merles and extreme white BC's are usually not wanted and I do not specifically bred for them. Classic marked pups are always the first to be requested/reserved. It is my fault I don't put enough emphasis on the website that my dogs work (there is plenty of on the facebook page though..) I guess I'm just under the assumption that if people have questions they'll ask, or if there's problems they'll tell me. When someone asks me about trialing I tell them I don't, if people ask if my dogs can work I tell them they can and who ever wants to come visit only has to ask. I don't go around making accusations of others without talking to them/knowing the situation and I guess I made the mistake of expecting the same of others. (hence the reason I don't hang around forums all that often) And my goodness time/work is most certainly a factor in going/participating in trials. I am the major caretaker of ALL the animals as well as my son. I do not have any hired hands here and my husband is at work until 6PM+ everyday. So between kidding, bottle calves, training and taking my son to his activities I have no idea how I would have time to trial, but by all means if anyone wants to handle one of my dogs and take them to trial, be my guest!

First off.. this is one of my puppies.. Anna if Rikki was having problems why did you not contact me first?! The only thing you said was after you got her home she was having diarrhea. Yes I did tell you to give her canned pumpkin and yogurt because USUALLY diarrhea after changing homes is due to stress, diet change and water change. Pumpkin will firm up the poop and yogurt will give her the good bacteria in her tummy.. Second I said she was eating chicken liver/beef liver or some type of organ meat as well a whole chicken thigh twice a day. This is just what the puppies are started on, this is not a complete meal plan to adulthood. My dogs currently eat whole prey model, the chicken and rabbits are raised by me. You have both my email and phone number but I was directed here by another person saying that I was being badmouthed. First and foremost ALL my Border Collies WORK ON MY FARM WITH GOATS AND DUCKS (and cows and horses). I do not have access to sheep but I do back up puppies that were sold for work. Every one can herd and work on a farm. I also have a 4 page contract that I sign stating this.. NO I do NOT trial. I absolutely do not have time to travel around to trials living on an actual WORKING farm.. Yes some of my dogs are "sport" Border Collies but again they ALL can and do work moving/herding goats. Yes Rikki's parents are a cross of a working dairy cattle BC and an agility BC (who can work as well) All of the puppies in that litter were high energy and high drive. Anna you said you spend a lot of time being active outdoors and wanted an active companion. You said you would try agility if that was not enough stimulation as you will not/can not have her herd/work.. You also asked how much can she be active/how long can she be walked as a young pup. I told you she will let you know when she is tired and if she is being overworked. Rikki was climbing 3ft x pens before she left (and I even told you this) she was certainly not a lazy/unenthusiastic puppy. If you were to tell me this or ask about it I would have certainly tried to figure out what is going on with her whether it is a health issue or overworking a 4 month old puppy. The last I heard "She learns very fast and loves to cuddle with us" I absolutely LOVE all my dogs as well as their pups. Even years later I ask people to send me updates on them. I have people post their comments and pictures of their dogs now grown up. I have yet to have anyone tell me anything negative. Of course if they would I would do everything in my power to fix it. The worst I have come across is one of my female pups(who is now 2yr) was bought with breeding rights had a Pennhip score of .55 (NOT dysplastic and does NOT have any problems) but because of the score I paid the difference/spaying since she should/would not be used for breeding. I have no problem disclosing anything with my dogs or their pups (within the discretion of the new owners) Quite honestly I don't come to this board often because I think a large portion of the people here are judgemental and rude. I don't think all BC's need to be top trial dogs to be a good dog. I am 100% for keeping working lines, but these are MY working lines. My dogs work for me and no one else. I do not need to parade them around in a trial field to "prove" they are worthy. I know darn well they can go out and bring back a stray/stubborn goat or help me round them up to put them back in their pen. The very reason I have "colored" BC's is because I enjoy genetics. BC's have some amazing color genetics but I in NO WAY would sacrifice ability for color. Kitt (the Lilac merle who died due to Juvenile Epilepsy) came from CATTLE WORKING BC parents. Both parents work cattle, it takes a TOUGHER BC to run cattle. Hence the McCallum lines.. Not all BC's are tough/gritty enough to bite cattle (front or back) so whomever was making comments about the cattle BC's is wrong, just because the BC started as a SheepDog doesn't mean there is anything wrong with breeding a tougher version that can handle cattle and call them cattle working BC's You guys are right though, you don't see "colored" BC's in trials and such, and I imagine it's because people like (those who were complaining about colors) would shun them and make a big stink about it. It by NO WAY mean that a BC that is not black/white classic marked can not work well... Gee wiz it makes people sound racist they way you complain about BC's of color =( PS.. MY BC Angel, the one that herds my child was NEVER BRED for the very reason she was not worthy of breeding, she is far to neurotic and very minimal off switch.. So NO I do not consider herding a child a valuable trait....