Gloria Atwater

Yup, it's normal. My big macho 9 year old male with the German Shepherd bark can yip like a darned girl! Getting your youngster to disengage from the trigger and engage instead with you is an excellent tactic.

FWIW, none of my dogs play fetch because I don't like the obsessive behavior it can arouse unless governed with care. If they play with the ball, they are mainly just romping and tossing it on their own. My oldest boy likes the kickball version, but he's the last I taught to play that game. But one observation I would like to add is that I prefer not to ask my dogs to play in a situation where other dogs are present, particularly a game as potentially competitive as fetch. That air-biting could easily turn into a defensive snap and it's neither healthy nor fun for a dog to feel the need to do that. So, just be careful of playing kickball with other dogs around. You don't want to accidentally have it escalate if another dog gets too pushy about it. The other note I'd make is that if your girl does not care for fetch, maybe that's not a bad thing. The point to remember is that border collies don't need tons of chasing/play time. It's a misconception that they just need to runrunrun. What they really need, what they are bred for, is to use their brains. Working sheep dogs put in long physical days, but it's their brains that get the real workout. The best way to tire a border collie out is to make it think. So if your girl lacks chase drive for balls, try other things. Look for games, tricks, behaviors to engage her with. What she probably wants most is to engage you, not a toy. So, if she's motivated by treats and praise, start teaching her ways to earn them. If she has favorite toys at home, teach her to pick them up by name. If she likes doing things with you, start teaching her tricks and obedience games and even little "dance" steps. Not every border collie plays ball. And they certainly don't need tons of non-thinking exercise. After all, you don't want to accidentally train her to need too much play time. Just my thoughts, everyone's mileage may vary. ~ Gloria

I don't think much of that fox video by itself, either. It's trapped in a cage - any number of scared or anxious canids would react the same, including dogs found in animal shelters. I'd say there needs to be greater context, there. As for a corresponding genetic factor to un-sociability, I absolutely believe that must be so. My Aussie's mother was very standoffish with both dogs and humans. My Aussie herself simply has no interest in befriending people, despite all our efforts in her youth, and only mild interest in meeting other dogs. She has maybe half a dozen human friends and perhaps twice that many dogs she tolerate easily, and that's it. She's not aggressive, she's just suspicious and anti-social. ~ Gloria

Normal? I think "normal" anything is entirely relative when it comes to border collies. But honestly, they sound fine. If they're fit as they seem to be, who cares? My 9 year old Nick, seen in my profile pic, is about 47 pounds and he has a couple younger full brothers who are taller and a bit heavier. Meanwhile his 2-1/2 year old younger half sister is only 32 pounds. I've known some border collies as small as 25 and others as large as 60+. So, unless they're fat, they're fine! ~ Gloria

Hi Lisa! Wonderful to hear that you and Roscoe are doing so much better. That's fantastic! As for your question above, I have two 5 month old pups just now, (not siblings) so I would say Roscoe's behavior is entirely normal - for a youngster who is pushing a few boundaries. Be sure you don't let him be the one to set those boundaries, even if it does mean you guys go a little short of sleep once in a while. I've found that a squirt bottle is pretty handy for curbing puppy barking tantrums: bark = squirt! Repeat until he's tired of getting zapped. Also, is he in a wire or plastic crate? If it's wire, it might help to put a partial covering on it, such as a piece of cardboard or something on top. Sometimes making a crate more "den-like" helps them settle, though of course in the warm nights of summer we don't want them too hot. Anyhow, try the water bottle for bark corrections if he does that again. He doesn't need to learn that tantrums get him what he wants! Keep up the good work, Gloria

That is excellent news! It's okay if he's not food motivated - not all border collies are. Sometimes all they really need is a happy tone of voice. Delighted to hear things are definitely looking up! ~ Gloria

Welcome to the gan! I'm not a runner - if you ever do see me running, better check what's coming behind me. But at somewhat over a year old, it may be that while she's fit, her stamina is not built up. Their growth plates aren't really closed until about age 2, so I wouldn't want to push her too far too fast. And she may simply find a longer distance run uncomfortable, without something to really drive her. Plus, jogging isn't mental work for her, like gathering sheep, so she may have to work up to embracing it. But I'd say let her stick with the slower pace and try building up over time. My dogs do hike with me, our average 4 to 7 miles a couple times a week. But of course I'm only walking, so the dogs get to vary their pace to their own tastes and they entertain themselves with scents and streams along the trail. Per BCs feeding off each other, from my own experience the answer is definitely yes. Two border collies can absolutely rev each other up! But depending on the Aussie, they can be just as silly and active, so while their interactions may be different, don't count on them not finding ways to create their own inter-breed mayhem. In any case, you'd have to establish firm ground rules and be prepared to monitor interactions. A friend of mine has a BC and an Aussie as her hiking companions and they are best pals, but they are active! However, I would advise being cautious about introducing a second dog too soon, if Zuc can be dominant and toy possessive. You might want to wait a year or two and see if she doesn't mellow in some of that. It sounds like a more submissive, easy-going dog could be a better second companion, so when the time comes, perhaps consider rescuing an older dog, so you would know the personality and temperament in advance? Aussies can be pretty forward and in-your-face with exuberance, so it would be a shame if she took offense to a new pup. Anyhow, just some thoughts! BTW, LOVE the name Zucchini!!! ~ Gloria

Just wanted to add that 3 cups a day sounds like an awful lot for a 14 week old pup. I have a tall, leggy 5 month old male that eats just 2 heaping cups a day and does fine. Overfeeding definitely can contribute to runny stools. And as others have said, it's better to have a pup on the lean and leggy side than chubby. Do consider cutting him back to see if that helps, along with the other steps you're taking. Glad to hear that he is improving! ~ Gloria

This. ^^ I was covering my tomatoes against frost less than a week ago. Now temps are in the 90s with some areas hitting 100. My dogs are totally not used to it. I took them hiking yesterday and although we were at 7500 - 8000 feet elevation, with shady trees and temps probably in the high 70s, at one point our two youngest dogs began to look unusually winded. We leashed them and got them to a stream to splash water on their bellies and they were fine, but we kept them on leash for a good while until their respiration slowed and we were satisfied they were good. Point being, they didn't realize it was warmer, so they were trying to play as they did when we were up there strapping on ice cleats! So, changes in season and temperature can definitely play into a dog's ability to handle activities that it previously had no problem with. And it doesn't have to be 90 for dogs to overheat. We just have to look after the silly things, because heaven knows they won't look after themselves!

I would reserve opinion until and unless she has another episode. Dogs can get exhibit signs of heat trouble and yet not be totally debilitated for prolonged periods afterwards. One time I had my little female, Gael, out for sheepdog lessons and while it was pretty darned warm out, I had no awareness that she had exerted herself beyond the usual. Her lesson was probably about 15 minutes, nothing out of the ordinary. However, as soon as we called her off sheep and she headed towards the water tank, she started crossing her hind legs and getting wobbly in her stride. I got her to the water tank, soaked her down and then set her to lie down in cool shade. She rested comfortably and a few minutes later I gave her some Glycogen Energy Edge water to drink, and you'd never know anything ever happened. Gael never had an episode like that again, but I think I'd just misjudged how warm it was and how much she was exerting herself. I've also seen dogs come off a trial field and suddenly get wobbly, and a trial course is only 10 to 12 minutes long. The point to be made here is, it doesn't take all that long for an active dog to overheat in the summer and border collies often have little sense of self preservation. They can literally work or play themselves to death. So it's quite possible that your girl just overdid it playing. Being as you say temps are now in the 90s - and high humidity is an added factor - and you describe her as "tearing around," you may simply have to choose a cooler time of day, if possible, and regulate how much tearing around she does in summer heat. Do keep us posted, but what you describe could as easily be from heat as BCC. ~ Gloria

I'll basically echo what everyone else has said. The "Lassie" type collie was never bred to be a working dog. Whatever its roots, whatever stock it originally came from, the rough collie itself was created in Victorian times specifically to be an ornament and a show dog. I believe breeds such as the Borzoi were even added in to create the signature long muzzle of the rough collie. Those I've seen in AKC, AHBA or ASCA trials have very little natural talent. Some can be taught to do a little gather and are able to hold sheep together to fetch them around a course, even drive a little. But unless they are constantly instructed and directed, they seemed to have very little natural instinct. The same goes for the one or two smooth varieties I've seen. That's my take, anyhow. Everyone's mileage may vary. ~ Gloria

I third or fourth the above! I have two 4-and-a-half month old pups and when we are outside, I often call them just to give them a treat or a pat, then let them go play again. I also work on calling them to me so we can go to another location, such as out a gate or to another part of the yard or field. That way I'm not the kill-joy all the time, and coming when called just means we're doing stuff. It's not infallible by any means, but it does help. Also, I have a separate command for when we're done and they need to go back on leash. I just tell them, "Come get your leash." They get a treat when they come, I hook them up, but again, that doesn't always mean the fun is over. Sometimes it just means we're going to walk somewhere else together. Best of luck!

I'll mainly echo what others have already said. You get to say when - and if - you play fetch, not her. And I think playing fetch around dogs who are not part of her family is not a good idea. If I were you, I'd just skip playing ball if any other dogs are anywhere near. Don't even get the ball out of the car. Border collies are very focused on whatever they think their "job" is and interruptions can lead to the snappish behavior you see. I think it would just be easier on everyone involved if you simply avoid the situation entirely and let her be among other dogs without the ball in the equation. Time enough to play fetch when other dogs are nowhere in the vicinity. My two cents' worth, anyhow.

And then there's my little stinker. This is Midge, also just turning 4 months old. Sometimes they paint job can be a little wild. What a CUTE puppy! I hope you'll come back to share more photos as he grows.

Agree with all the above - more time outs. He's a puppy and some just take longer than others to calm down, so teaching him calm and encouraging quiet behavior on his own will help. I also like the idea of watching the time so you can put him up before he gets too totally wound up. Best of luck! I have two 4 month old pups right now, so I get where you're at!

Just wanted to add one thing to the good stuff you've already got, and that's this: Buy an x-pen. Get the 36 tall size. They are a godsend. Think of it as a playpen for puppies. I am presently raising TWO puppies, both just turning 4 months old, and I could not have done it without x-pens. Every time they went into Tazmanian devil mode, I could just pop each in their x-pen with a couple chew toys and voila, peace and quiet. I like those better than a crate for time outs because you can give them toys, treats and chewies in there and it gives them enough room to actually play a little. You can find x-pens on Amazon. Also, buy some of those expandable baby gates. Get the tallest ones you can find. Walmart is one place to find them. Use those to gate off rooms you don't want your puppy in and to keep them in the areas you do want them in. No puppy should ever have the run of a house. Once he learns that you're not his play toy, not available 24/7 and that you control his freedom, he should eventually learn to settle down. Yes, he may scream and yell the first few times you put him in the x-pen, but that's what the chew toys and treats are for. The most valuable thing a border collie can learn is an OFF switch. It's a misconception that they need constant interaction and attention. A working border collie also needs to know how to just chill out and wait, and your pet BC needs to learn the same. X-pens and baby gates. You'll wonder how you ever got along without them. Best of luck. ~ Gloria

X-pens. X-pens and a couple of those expandable baby gates to restrict her access to various parts of the house.That's the answer. If you don't have a secure dog yard you can kick her out in for 15 minutes and let her go dig a hole or run around in circles, limiting her range is the answer. NO puppy should ever have the run of the house. They WILL get in trouble. They WILL chew things. They WILL be naughty. It's just what they do as part of exploring their world and it's going to take months for her to fully grasp her boundaries. Puppies must have safe, secure areas in which to be puppies. That's it and that's all. A farmer would use a kennel, I use an x-pen and baby gates and the fenced dog yard, because no puppy can be trusted with run of the house.

This may not be popular with some, but in the above scenario, that's where I give them a little rap on the bridge of the nose with my finger and say "Leave it." I don't want my dogs to chew their leashes at any time, therefore I want to discourage it directly. Thus I give a correction, a rap on the nose, and then stick the correct toy in their mouths. Lather, rinse, repeat. Each grab at the leash gets a "Leave it" and a rap on the nose. If they don't want the toy I'm offering, fine, but they don't get the leash in its place. I don't hesitate to use a stern tone of voice, but I'm not shouting or bullying them. Shouting is exciting and excitement just fires them up. Bottom line is making it so that chewing the leash is not fun. We don't go anywhere, they doesn't get to play and I keep repeating the reprimand until they give it up. Don't feel guilty! Border collies can't live in confinement or "storage," but believe me, I am a big fan of putting my two down for naps or time outs when I can't watch them. Farmers and such will put their puppies in a kennel when they can't work with them or let them play in the yard, so it's basically all things in moderation. You don't want a BC locked up so much they go stir crazy from boredom and develop bad habits, but there's nothing wrong with time outs. She just has to mature enough to develop the attention span. With high intelligence and high energy can come a fair bit of distract-ability. My guys' attention span is just moments and will stay that way for some time yet. All things in due time!

Tractor Supply also sells half-sized, 1/4 inch stall mats that I use in my chicken house. Those might even be better!

13 - 14 pounds seems a touch light. My 14 week old female was 17 pounds at last check. But that doesn't mean your boy won't put on a growth spurt and I think he should easily reach 25 pounds. He's still going to do a LOT of growing, though!

I've had good luck with a scrap of textured linoleum from our local flooring place. Cost me 10 bucks. Then I throw some puppy blankets and old towels on top of that. Edit to add, this was for an 8 week old pup so she didn't have enough room to play hard and fall down and the blankets and towels gave traction.

This. Times a billionty. A border collie who can't chill out by himself is going to drive his owner absolutely nuts. They grow up to be whatever you allow.

I do use "No" in the same sense as "leave it." It just means, whatever you're doing, knock it off and go somewhere else. But I am a HUGE fan of diverting exuberance or play behaviors as well. Just moments ago I found my girl puppy in her favorite chair (she's allowed in that chair) but my hubby had left his Carhartt vest on it ... so there she was, just lying there having a wee nibble! Immediately I told her, "No," took the vest and and gave her a chewy toy to gnaw on instead. So I do a lot of giving her something else to do or chew, if she is into the wrong thing. I definitely believe in diverting them into a replacement behavior or activity whenever possible.

You want an x-pen, not just a crate. Trust me on this. I have one each for our two hellions. In fact, get two for your girl if you want to confine her into a larger area. Don't give her free run of the house unsupervised. Also, if at all possible, give her an area in your yard that's just hers. I have 5 dogs, including the pups, and they have a dedicated dog yard. The pups get times of the day when they are are free to dig holes, dismantle pine cones, gnaw chewies, whatever. I do keep an eye on them, but they get to entertain themselves for a while. BTW, you are not the first person to be overwhelmed by the intelligence of a border collie! The thing people don't take into account is that they are thinking even when we aren't. As for mouthiness, right now my preferred tactic is primitive but highly effective. My secret? The cardboard tube out of a roll of paper towels. When one of my little dudes is going piranha, whether on me or each other, I just pick up the cardboard tube, give a little tap and growl a firm, "NO, leave it." I'm not whacking them like with a rolled-up newspaper, it's literally just a tap - but the hollow bonking noise is very effective. Any more I don't have to even get out of my chair, I can just show the tube and they settle down. "Settle" is an actual command, as well. It just means "play more quietly." Also, if you don't have enough chewy toys, go buy several. My guys have a toy box full of Nylabones, fake antlers, bacon-flavored chewy things, rubber Kongs, rubber toys and all sorts of stuff. My house looks like it's inhabited by manic 2-year-olds. But it definitely makes my life easier when the puppies have tons of toys to distract the with. If you have a Tractor Supply in your area, also look into a package of kneecaps. They're safer than rawhide or or those cooked bones. Also - once again, get an x-pen. 36 inch height should be fine. Amazon delivers. ~ Gloria

What Amy and Sue said. Visit the Norcal sheepdog site for event schedules and locations, and also keep an eye on the USBCHA trial page: http://www.usbcha.com/sheep/upcoming_trials.html Summer is usually fairly quiet, trial-wise, but there are a number of trials each spring March - May and again in the fall. Just have to watch the trial schedules. ~ Gloria