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Our first rescue dog, Ladybug, was unceremoniously dumped at the local shelter a few days before Christmas after snapping at a 3 year old child that was pulling her tail. (Her name was Lady when she came to us and we added the "bug" because of her freckles). She is a beautiful dog, perfectly trained and responsive. I couldn't believe that anyone would give up on such a beautiful dog. I didn't think anything of the snap" because it had clearly been provoked until later that summer I had her at a yard sale. She was behaving nicely then suddenly I heard her give a low, threatening growl. Sure enough a toddler was approaching us. Clearly she hadn't forgotten her experience over six months ago and now resented any child that size. In the four years we've had her, we've never had a problem with her nipping or snapping at any adult, though she avoids socializing with women guests until they can prove an interest in throwing her ball, but she won't let them pet her. She is not allowed near children under the age of eight or nine who are not dog savvy. They just don't know how to behave with any breed of dog. -- we have discovered that her ideal person is a boy of about 8 or nine years old but my husband has made an acceptable substitute. If you keep this pup, you will have to be hyper viligent about keeping it away from all children - family, guests, kids walking down the street...An animal behavorist might help but don't set your expectations too high. I get nervous when I watch programs such as "It's me or the Dog", or the Dog Whisperer because they create false hopes in people watching because of the quick manner in which the training and results are presented. Training and rehabilitating a dog is a great deal of hard work and one can never be certain that the dog is 100% solid on the trigger (i.e. a child). The best you can hope for is to learn how to recognize signs of trouble and get out fast. I also have a few things to say about parents/caregivers that let a small child wander up to an unfamiliar dog, allow it to be bitten then scream for a lawyer...but I'm sure you'd all agree and think the same thing .

Thanks all for sharing your pictures and experiences! Robin's half-sister is a deep auburn as well, so we're thinking that's how he's going to end up....I'll work at posting some pictures of him, but at three months old, he's all legs....unless he's covered with mud! I've never had a dog that loved to be dirty as much as he does! Liz

Oh dear....hope he recovered soon. I can't believe a cheap little ball like that would last so long!

As I scroll through the pictures, I see many beautiful black and white dogs, but does anyone else have a red dog? We thought that because we'd recently lost a beloved black and white that it would be wise to consider a red pup order to separate the two in our minds and hearts. The breeder happened to have an older red and white who was just beautiful (half sister to our pup) and the the litter we signed up for happened to deliver a red male...just what we were considering, but as I take him out people literally don't know what he his! He's a red tri, by the way, with beautiful gold eyebrows and a touch of gold on his muzzle and "ruff". The breeder wasn't deliberately going for red dogs, but both parents had the red gene. I was actually asked if he was truly a purebred BC? I know that the red coat is a recessive gene, but honestly didn't think they were that rare...there were three in this litter and three black and whites. Liz

Two years ago I bought a smallish (larger than a tennis ball) soft, hollow rubbery ball that glows in the dark and believe it or not, that ball has lasted through a dedicated chewer who destructs everything eventually and her co conspirator who loved chomping on it and carried it everywhere (even when he peed!) and now two pups who are gnawing at it... I think this is the ball - I know it glows in the dark because Ladybug loves dropping it in the hot tub...in the event that just maybe we'd like to play a little game of fetch while soaking sore muscles.....In fact, think its floating in the swimming pool at the moment.... http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2751725 -- Pet Smart Powzer glow ball. We also tried a basketball blown up really tight, and a soccer ball. Ladybug gets one of each a season...if she pops it, she just carries around the carcass. This year she's already peeled off the outer covering of the soccer ball but its lasting so far....we also hung up a KONG frisbee instead of a tether ball which seems to be working out, but it's early days yet....but that little green rubber ball just keeps going and going....

Please don't suggest electric shock....or even the citronella. They do too much psychological damage to the dog. Correct the behavior some other way - find out when the dog is barking and why (lonliness, lack of exercise, boredom) and work from there. .

Scotty too "suckered" my niece in by appearing friendly. He snapped at her hand when she stretched out to him. He didn't break the skin but never the less, a dog that snaps will eventually bite so it was alarming. In fact, on another day shortly thereafter, with another niece, who is not a "dog" person, but very observant, started walking up to him and halted immediately, saying, "Did you see the way his eyes changed?" In a split second he went from friendly to fearful all the while looking fairly relaxed and she was quick enough to recognize it. It was a valuable clue in figuring out that she was approaching that "zone" where the shock collar was used. If people stayed out of that zone, he was fine. We all have a personal comfort zone. I would still vote for fear aggression...along with some serious behavioral issues - there's nothing playful about him nipping at people's clothes --it's one short step away from a bite. Border Collies who don't practice herding do go "nuts" about chasing wheels (that's how we lost Scotty - he would even chase a vacuum cleaner when he came to us....sadly, we hadn't made much progress on controlling this particular behavior and it cost us a beautiful dog). They also nip at people/objects that are moving around them in an unrealized effort to "herd" and control the people. you are very right to seek a behaviorist to work out exactly what his issues are and then see if you can address them. Be very clear on the dog's history -- was he a rescue? Did he come to you as a pup? What was his previous situation? Is he neutered? If so when? How old is he? What his his daily routine? How does he react to different family members? It was suggested to me to keep a notebook on the dog's behavior....just at odd times throughout the day, look at him and write down what he's doing, how he's acting....

Fear aggression is very difficult to overcome. When Scotty came to us as a four year old rescue about to be euthanized, we knew that he was aggressive with strangers because he had been subjected to a shock collar when people came to the door. He'd actually been taken to a vet to be put down because the elderly owners couldn't control him. He was a very large Border Collie --nearly 60 pounds! -- and lived in suburb so he didn't have a chance to run....we fixed that I didn't realize that he would nip at people (but not draw blood) that we met out on the street until he snapped at my niece a few days after we got him. We quickly learned that people couldn't approach him but that he would accept people on his terms -- We crated him before guests came and brought him out after people came into the house. When they completely ignored him, he soon became comfortable and after about six months was our "town greeter" happily going to the door and loving everyone This happy ending wasn't necessarily a matter of conditioning or retraining but his gradual awareness that he wasn't going to be punished every time someone came to the house as he really was a loving, happy dog who needed a great deal more exercise to help tone down his excitement rather than be punished for being friendly . I took him many places but never let strange people on the street pet him. I explained that he was a rescue dog and not comfortable with strangers. I never had an incident on the street or in a store. In fact, I've never let people casually pet Ladybug - our other rescue - (she's afraid of strange women). She decides whether or not she'd like to have the contact and she's allowed to approach once she makes up her mind because she's never nipped. I know that it will be different with the pups...they are so friendly and I want them to be comfortable with strangers but dogs have a right to not be bothered or stressed if they have issues. All that said, if I couldn't figure out the reasons and see some improvement, I'd be very said, but I wouldn't keep a habitual biter (especially one actually draws blood) -- too much of a risk in harming someone, particularly a child.

Ladybug was never "into" frisbees -- she'll play fetch at and catch with them but its not her favorite thing. Last year we hung a tether ball for the two adult dogs to play with. Boy, did they have a good time! The ball didn't last very long but they played with the scraps all summer... we also tried one of those footballs with the elastic cord so that when you throw it, it comes back....sad toy for only children . Again, they loved it but short lived. This year we hung a red Kong frisbee from a bungee cord by drilling a hole and attaching the cord with a washer/nut and bolt (make sure the connector is very smooth as they will grab at that area. The pups are just getting interested in different activities but both the pups (14 weeks old) are playing with it and Ladybug loves it. Don't know if this will translate into playing catch with frisbees, but it sure keeps them busy and burns off energy. I should add that the frisbee is about 8 inches off the ground so the pups don't have to jump for it. They mostly tug at it at this point. Ladybug bumps it around and really gets it flying. Liz

Hit the dog while it's eating????? Good grief. Pet the dog, gently take the food away and give it back, add treats to the dish, yes.....but HIT? NEVER! Sounds like this source is trying to raise either cowering or very mean dogs.

I use Revolution - it's one of those all encompassing monthly treatments for fleas, heartworm, etc. - I researched products last year and it seemed the only one that didn't have the active ingredient (is it Invectin?) that has been reported to cause some bad reactions in Border Collies as well as other collie breeds. My vet tells me that it doesn't protect from deer ticks though. It works well - I've had no problem with fleas. Watch the weight limit categories carefully....I always err on the lighter side if the dog is just over the weight limit. I.e.

I love my little red pup, but there's nothing prettier than the "tuxedo" black and white BC Liz

My pups have been exhibiting since about 8 weeks, either toward each other, or when watching Ladybug (our older rescue dog) as she and Ken play fetch. The intensity that they present surprises me. When you lay a ball before Robin, he crouches and stares at it, daring it to move Liz

Thankfully both Robin and Brodie have discovered our old burn pit (papers only) which Ken cleaned up when he extended the fence. He left a few cinderblocks and the pups are happily nosing around for mice (Yes, thanks to the cat, at 12 weeks, Brodie has discovered the pleasures of hunting for mice - we've caught him two different times with a mouse!) and digging to their heart's content. Back to the original question....we've put a number of different things out -- a pint sized tether ball, a Kong Frisbee hanging from a bungee cord and a lovely barrel under the pine trees (ends cut out) as well as a number of different kinds and sizes of balls. With Ladybug leading the way, they play well together for about an hour of socialization discovering new things and then when they get bored and start to tussle, I separate them. I was very pleased today to see the three of them exploring, then all lay down together for a rest without any tussles between the pups. Ladybug is a good influence on them and is much more patient than I ever would have expected such a prima donna to be..

It is interesting that Komet figured out how to dominate the BCs -- and surprusing that they let him. I couldn't see that happening with Ladybug. the first day Scotty came home she (half his size) sat him down and read him the number one house rule -- he only breathed with her permission. He was with us for two years, and while they did get eventually along well and became real pals, he always gave way to her and for weeks after he died I was finding toys and balls stashed here and there where he'd hidden them away from her. (Sometimes I think she visits his grave not out of any sense of loss over him, but she smells the soccer ball that we buried with him!) She's much more tolerant of the pups...I think she'd had a litter or two before she came to us so she's a good nanny. She absolutely hates German Shepherds, by the way. Her hackles stand right up. I'd just like to be armed with some tactics to ensure that Robin at least tolerates other dog breeds. After puppy obedience, he'll be going for his CGD and that's an important part of the test. Liz Did you mean that you found a pup that accepted Komet's rule or kept one that pushed back?

The comments regarding dog parks, got me thinking about the challenges with the two rescue dogs we've had, with people and dogs - I keep Ladybug away from young children (she came to us after snapping at a toddler that was pulling her hair -- I can't believe someone gave up so easily on this beautiful dog but it was our good fortune). Scotty was gentling after his experiences but he needed time to meet people on his own terms. If someone pushed up to him before he was ready, for the first six months or so, he'd snap at them. Ignore him, and he'd be climbing all over you in five minutes. Ladybug won't snap, but she won't go near a strange woman. However, my question centers on interactions with other breeds of dogs. We don't have dog parks out in the country, but I was always careful of mixing the two rescue dogs I had with dogs of other breeds. Both Ladybug and Scotty actually snapped at dogs of other breeds, yet played well with other BCs...."Breed snobs" perhaps? It might have been something in their background that prevented them from being comfortable with other breeds of dogs, but it does make me wonder what will happen when Robin starts puppy obedience with pups of other breeds. Will he be more tolerant, or react the same? Liz

Thank you -- A few more treatments and its all going to be behind me. It was very helpful to find a place to talk about Scotty where others understand that the bond between person and a dog "working" in whatever capacity is very deep. The pup Robin couldn't be more different in appearance-- he's a chocolate tri with prick ears and green eyes and when he runs into the bedroom in the morning after his "outside" duty, he's so funny and happy I can't help but laugh. And it is interesting to build a bond with a pup that has no history, no mistrust, no fear. I hope that Robin is always as happy as he is now. Liz

Scotty came to me at a time when we both needed help. He was four years old, full blood BC but as big as a "Lassie Collie", a beautiful rough coat with the Tuxedo markings. He had been in a housing development with elderly people and had developed some aggression problems due to the lack of exercise and the application of a shock collar/ electric fence to control him. Failing that, he'd been taken to the vet to be put down and ended up in rescue at the same time I was looking for a another BC. The owners noted that he could discern between his ball, his bone, and his leash. I counted over forty words that he understood and reacted to and he was learning more every day he was with me. His talent lay in language, having spent so many years trying to figure out how to stay out of trouble in a complicated home. At first he was a handful, literally snapping at the hand that fed him when Ken gave him some toast then went to pet him. We got that straightened out in a hurry. With lots of exercise, obedience classes, and a few lessons in humility from our Ladybug (half his size), Scotty became the sweetest, softest, most caring BC that you would ever want to meet. There was a day that I suddenly realized that in the evening he wasn't hiding in the laundry room but was out in the TV room asking for his share of attention then settling down at my side. I loved seeing the joy on his face as he raced through the fields, finally free to run and run and run. He didn't have a prey drive and would have failed miserably at sheep but he had a protective drive but not in a "biting" sort of way. Unlike other dogs, he moved toward you when you were upset or worried as I had been due to illness and the loss of family members. He simply knew how to comfort. I had a knee replacement this past winter and he spent the whole of the recovery at my side, snuggled up against me as I lay on the living room rug doing painful exercises. He was gentle with small children and kittens, giving way to one a tenth of his weight. I don't know how to write his elegy. His one fault was that he chased wheels -- from vacuum cleaner wheels to big trucks. I worked and worked with him but the habit was so ingrained we didn't make much progress. You can see where this is going. He slipped behind my husband during morning exercise, attracted to the road by a loud truck. It was over in a second. Three days later, I was told I had cancer and the loss of Scotty was even more devastating. A friend, not realizing my situation sent me that "rainbow bridge" card and I felt sure that Scotty had "gone before me" and that I would soon join him. As it is when one loses a friend or family member, I felt I hadn't done enough, had let him down, hadn't been in control enough to break that ingrained habit. Guilt and sadness mingled with the shock of my illness. Well, it's three months later and I am still grieving and unsure of my future but we have a much stronger fence and two new pups - one of which has attached himself to me, lifting my spirits with his antics and his completely different appearance from dear Scotty. He's not Scotty; I don't want him to be. He gets me up when I'd rather be giving in to the sickness of the chemotherapy and organizes my day around his lessons. I've never had a pup; never started fresh with a pup without issues and I'm looking forward to developing a solid confident dog, based on the lessons that I learned from Scotty. Will Robin save my life? Will he provide the emotional support that came to me in an unlikely fluke with Scotty? Likely not. But he will add richness and depth, interest and companionship and humor in an uncomplicated relationship that asks only that I be kind and fair to him, giving him a chance to be his own dog and live up to his particular potential. So far, he has demonstrated a particular talent for digging -- I think he'll be useful when it comes time to harvest the potatoes!

Hi there, Play with Luna by herself. She's a follower at the moment. (PS -- see all the replies to my post requesting ideas for playing with new pups -- some of them are pretty tough on adopting two pups at the same time -- but it just takes extra time and thought to keep them moving in the right direction. Liz

Thanks -- Pet smart has them as does tractor supply -- first stop this weekend! And I agree, its the pups knowing who their "person" is that makes the difference. Thankfully, Border Collies associate themselves strongly with people - so strongly in fact that sometimes they go nuts if their person leaves them. Brodie already knows when Ken's truck pulls in the driveway and begins to "sing" -- quite the little Celtic vocalist! In the morning, he wakes up in his crate like a happy baby, talking to himself. Robin saves all his communication for his face and ears. His expressions are amazing.

Robin is unfortunately a digger and I wish I'd had a camera this morning....I had a huge flower box filled with dirt ready to plant and the second I turned my back, he popped up in it and just like that dirt was flying all over the porch! I've got to get those bones buried! He also wallows in the mud. This pup gets lots of baths!

Back to your original question about exercising your pups' minds, do you do any clicker training? That is a fun way to have them work their little brains. I used the Clicker Cookbook with Quinn when he was a pup and it was a nice mental workout. I also did some games from Susan Garrett's book Shaping Success. In fact, that was my puppy raising bible for Quinn and I credit those games for much of Quinn's self-control beginning early in his life. It's a great book for agility and clicker training as well as raising a high drive puppy. You might also poke around and do some searches on these boards about puppy raising and training. There have been lots of excellent discussions. Thanks! I'll look into those books! Clicker training is definately on the agenda though I haven't started yet -- we're way out in the boonies and it take some effort to get to a pet store! Robin especially needs to pay attention. When on leash he's wandering all over the place and after wrestling with my sadly missed Scotty (60 lbs! of rescue border collie), I want to break any forging tendencies at fourteen pounds rather than forty! Thanks again. Liz

Our late Border Collie Scotty (passed in Feb) would take off after a small engine aircraft if they happened to by flying over the house....as others have said, it's most likely her prey drive at work rather than any sense of wanting to join in the fun. She'd probably do the same thing if you launched a kite. Liz