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ejano

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Everything posted by ejano

  1. My littermates were completely different. Brodie at 3 still objects strenuously (and loudly!) to being crated if we're moving about the household - i.e. I'm done eating LET ME OUT! and is very reluctant to crate - moving backwards might describe it best. He's quiet overnight but turns into a rooster at the first crack of dawn. Robin was and is very sanguine about it. I tell him "crate", he goes and stays even if the door is open. He'll even independently wander down to the mudroom to take a snooze in his crate. I don't think I did anything differently between them. We brought Brodie home a few days before Robin but neither pup had been crated. To me it shows the basic differences in their personality - Overall, Brodie is a bit nervy and wants to be right on top of you all the time (he's on my feet right now as I "work"); Robin quite relaxed and just goes off in a corner if nothing interesting is going on. At the moment he's guarding the door to the driveway - just in case someone might be leaving the house, he'll be the first one to volunteer as a co-pilot. Try to not leave your pup crated too long at first. Taking him (her?) in and out will demonstrate that yes, someone does know I'm here and will come to get me. I had my boys in the study so even at night they were handy though not in the same room and even now I keep a bone in there for them to gnaw on if they get bored.
  2. Thanks Amelia and Inez! (I drifted away from this forum for a bit -- grading papers). I think developing a slower pace in Robin and putting him on some different sheep periodically is going to make a big difference this summer. Amelia, your tip about the working fence is a good one; we've done that at home and in lessons with some success, though the last time I set Robin up against the fence in an effort to break him from a recently developed bad habit of circling them, Robin leaped over the fence in an attempt to get around them. He's always a challenge, that one. You can read the entire sorry adventure in "Coffee Break" I haven't had the courage to try again for the first meadow as yet... and Inez, I agree smaller is better. I sorted out my smaller sheep the last time I was in the field and what a difference subtracting about 70 pounds makes! I agree about the home training - if I want them to obey in the field, then they have to get off the couch when I say so . We do a lot of every day obedience in the course of a day. Liz
  3. I tried Robin out when he was about five months old - there are only two buildings with public elevators in our town (guess you can tell how small we are!)- in the library and the court house. As the one in the courthouse is only used for handicapped people getting to the second floor courtroom, we opted for the library. Up wasn't a problem, but down was a distinctly different story. He splayed out on the floor and stayed there. We've returned now and again to brush up on our elevator skills, but he's still not comfortable with "down". He'd rather not go in the elevator at all, but he does so because I ask him. So glad you and Danial are going on therapy visits! You are going to be a great team and will really lift people's spirits! Liz
  4. We do have the electronet on our list of must get ASAP as there are other areas that need either fencing in or fencing out and I could develop a planned grazing pattern for the orchard. Both dogs have a good stay. My plan is to keep the dog with me while I am doing some chore - i.e. trimming trees, cleaning out the spring, rebuilding the wall - sending the dog out if necessary if the sheep decide to drift off too far afield or kite back to the barn without permission. I took Brodie out with two sheep yesterday afternoon and when I sat down, he relaxed beside me, something that surprised me as the whole situation was entirely new to him. But he takes his cues well from his handler and while he has strong interest and ability, he has other hobbies besides watching sheep when he's not working them. Yesterday he kept his eye on them but as long as their noses weren't pointed toward the barn, he was cool about it. We stayed less than an hour but it was a good foundation. Around the barn and paddock, if given the opportunity, Robin lies watching the sheep so intently only his nose twitches, or if standing, his body trembling, until he is called off. (The thumbnail picture below is him, staring at "his" sheep.) Even then, he drifts back at first opportunity to a reasonable distance (the sheep are undisturbed) to return to watching. I severely limit his sightseeing opportunities as he is a naturally strong dog and doesn't need to think up any more ideas - and there's always the possibility that, unable to bear standing still, he might well have a "Hey, lets see what happens if I do this moment." I don't make a big deal of it when he stakes out the paddock as I don't want to punish him for "finding" the sheep or for his strong interest so I call him off quietly and redirect him. If he does it a second time, into his crate he goes until we can do a supervised activity. Is that the right thing to do? We'll see what happens when he has his turn at taking the sheep out - hopefully this afternoon. Thanks, Liz
  5. Our dearest friends are always with us.
  6. I think my boys would sign up with Oreo...they've been feeling the same way lately but things are looking up! -- And Ooky, would love to read that point-counterpoint!
  7. In fencing, the "on gaurd" position, means prepared to attack so I'm not sure that my title accurately reflects my question but here is the situation - my understanding of the Border Collie psyche is that they really enjoy getting something - mine prefer sheep - and putting that thing someplace - at the moment right at my feet (something we need to change but that's a question for another time)- and then doing it all over again - quickly. But what happens when you have the sheep where you want them and you want to stay there for awhile and have the dog help you keep them in the general area to graze without grounding them to an exact spot. Could you expect a young eager dog to be "on guard" without breaking his cool? The "orchard" is comprised of a slope, two 3 acre meadows,separated by a stone wall a 5 acre orchard with a stream running through it and beyond it, the "big field" - a 15 acre hay field beyond the orchard. They are separated by stone walls that are tumbled down in places and have open barways. We won't be running fences in here for some time. The sheep paddock opens up directly onto the slope so the intention is to tumble the sheep out, keep them from doubling back onto the delicious hay grass on the "near field" and push them out onto the slope and let them wander. There are no roads, the small meadow is very open so it is a good place to train the dogs as well. There is also a good deal of work to be done in the orchard. I plan to alternate dogs - taking one each day but I don't want the pups to get too worked up with excitement from the tension of watching the sheep that they will be of no use in helping me getting the sheep back into the paddock. If we are down in the orchard for several hours or half a day - is it fair to ask my boys, both 3 years old with some training (a good down, fairly consistent on their sides, an enthusiastic lift and fetch, wearing well, a wee bit of driving) stay "on guard" with supervision to keep the sheep from wandering too far afield?
  8. This is all great advice and well suited to my situation. I am anticipating some challenges early on, but as you say, once they figure out where home is and how to get there, it should go quite easily (famous last words!) The problem set for the dogs will be to keep them from slipping into the hayfield instead of going down into the orchard when going in and out of the paddock so the dog will essentially be an extended funnel, off to the left as they come out of the gate and vice versa when they go back. The hayfield will be enticing but there is all ready nice green, tender grass on the trail so that may help. If all else fails, encouraging them with a bucket of grain is the last resort. I also won't let all them out at the same time (learned that lesson last fall!). Some things are just trial and error(s), aren't they? Mine are wary with me when I have a dog but the dog will hold them so that I could, if necessary get a hold of them should they need treatment. I was pleased that I could even nab my flighty little Shetland who doesn't let anyone touch her. I do think if I had 20 or more, they would be less personable, but I don't know if we'll ever build up to that many...we'd need more shelter for them, more fenced paddock. Kristen and all, I heed your advice and can definitely see how Lamb Chops could be a problem (he's +/-)140 pounds now) and we've had some long discussions about the results should he change his now friendly attitude and I'm sure that DH wouldn't hesitate to give him up if he became dangerous to me or visitors. I certainly would send him packing. Howsomeever, I did sneak in the paddock with Brodie and two sheep on Sunday (my "puppy" sheep and her shadow, the flighty little Shetland) on Sunday...I just couldn't stand not to...the weather is so perfect right now. I am pleased to say that Brodie has not forgotten to lie down and that my new knee seems well suited to waltzing around the pasture at a fairly good rate. . We both need to brush up on our directional skills before we take on longer outruns - but his wearing skills were good - I didn't feel threatened with him behind me keeping the sheep plodding along. He has a quiet way of working...that red dog has a different style. Now, it all seems possible. Thanks, everyone for your encouragement. This is going to be a very good learning year, I think.
  9. It might be funny if I was witnessing it happening to someone else...and that person didn't get too badly hurt beyond their pride:). Use the dog to protect me... light bulb moment . We've been working on me stepping aside while the dog pushes the sheep through the "gate" - two cones lined up to mimic the actual gate some yards beyond. I want the dogs to nail that "gate" to get them ready to bring the sheep in and out of the real gate when we're ready for some real fun -- turning them lose on the slope and hopefully bringing them back. I step aside to "close" the gate while they take the sheep through. It's been moderately successful so they may be ready to do things a bit differently if I ask. (I received the same advice about flexed knees. And, from my tennis days, the flexed knee also gives you momentum to move from one side to another more quickly as well.)
  10. Kristen, my biggest PIA is a bottle baby - our whether Lamb Chops. He definitely gets separated from the flock when we are working on new things. Once the dogs have the idea of what I want them to do, I through him back in so that he (hopefully) learns how to go with the flow. He often challenges the dogs, who have learned how to handle him without tearing his nose off. In this first year, more than once I've threatened to send him to the butcher, but he's very popular as he's so friendly with the nieces and nephews (and DH), he's very easy to handle without the dogs and he has beautiful wool... The brace is a good idea - and we'll work on pace and releasing pressure.
  11. April 15 is my target date for getting back into training with the boys...but I'm a bit nervous about protecting my new knee. After some brushing up on the basics, I want to move into longer outruns. This is my fear. Daffodil, my "puppy" sheep comes roaring up like a freight train, bowls me over and there I lie, trampled in the mud! I can keep her out of the mix for awhile, but sooner or later she's got to get with the program as they're all going as a unit onto the slope above the orchard this spring and the dogs will be charged with bringing them back. Plus, there is no guarantee that the others won't also get super friendly with the dog at their heels. I've been working on the "slow" command with both dogs. I plan to make my first outrun practices in fetching the sheep from the barn area to the field so they won't be so darned eager to get to a destination. I'm told that sheep aren't like other animals - they won't go around you but prefer a path straight through you. If that's so, I think I'm doomed... What can I do to prevent a collision? Liz
  12. Busy resurrecting older threads... My Brodie also fits the definition of a soft dog as you use it here - sensitive to both verbal and nonverbal commands. He wants to please but if he is intimidated he gets very wiggly and plaintive. I've noticed that with the sheep (as has been pointed out), he gets a great deal tougher, though he is nervy. For awhile he had to run off and poop when he first saw the sheep. Then he was so trembly with excitement he refused to lie down -- his body was so stiff it was even difficult to physically push him down. He suddenly became very good at ignoring my "growly" voice. It took a combination of patience and firmness to get through this initial stage. As has been said here, I was told by my trainer to not indulge his difficulty in lying down but to become more aware of the pressure and lie him down where he was most comfortable then gradually work to more difficult challenges. It, like most good advice, worked and Brodie, while still passively disobedient at times, has come a long way. I had him at the farm yesterday with the sheep for the first time in several months though we didn't get in the paddock for any serious work training(knee a bit too fragile yet) his barn manners were very nice and he did clear the pen for me while I put out water and feed, holding his "on guard" position without needlessly challenging the hungry crew wanting desperately to get back in the door to bowl me over. Another thing I've noticed with Brodie is that he does much better when it's quiet -- just him and me. He hasn't had to wait his turn in the car or deal with other distractions (DH and Lamb Chops going for a stroll, for example!). His concentration will grow, I'm sure but when we're working on new things, I think it's okay to keep things simple for him.
  13. Knowing very little, I started out this spring with lambs who probably now fit the definition of ornament sheep . My boys had taken some lessons in the round pen but I don't have one so we went straight to working in the pasture but it is sectioned off so we were using about a half acre lot. We began to train in earnest around July-August when the bigger lambs were about six months old. I always give my boys had a good run before going to a lesson or working my own sheep. Even five or ten minutes running up and down "Cardiac Hill" - the slope above the orchard - helps to take the edge off. The Clun/Tunis lambs were used to dogs - my boys Mom and the Cluns were especially placid so I'd sort out two of them to start with. Once they (especially Daffodil) understood that the dogs wouldn't hurt them, they calmed down and I added the others one at a time. The boys can handle all six now, including my fast moving Shetlands without either side getting excited but when we're trying something new that I just take two or three out. Limiting the time you're working helps too. I became more successful when I began to more accurately read the signals that Brodie's concentration was slipping or Robin's eyes were glazing over. Pulling them off just before that line really helps to keep control of the situation and they've grown a great deal since. If we want to get anywhere, of course, we'll need to find some more challenging sheep, but for now my main goal is to get everyone down to the orchard and back in one piece, so familiarity is helpful.
  14. ejano

    Please know that you are in my prayers. I was diagnosed with Stage III lung cancer nearly 3 years ago and have been able to mount a full recovery (so far!). A good dog was very important to that process. I wish you all the very best.

  15. Thanks -- he's a very good boy and DH's best bud. He loves sheep. Say the word and he smiles. When we turn the corner to onto the road toward the farm where we go for lessons you can hear his tail thumping against the crate and he starts to sing. He's very eager to work and to please me and the sheep seemed to respect him - and he's much easier to work with than Master Robin at the moment (we're still working out whose running the railroad). I have some aspriation that Brodie and I might make it to a small novice trial by the end of summer, but it will depend on how many lessons/practice we can fit in. Liz
  16. Do different breeds react differently -- outside of the obvious differences between the primitives (i.e Shetlands) and the more domesticated breeds? We're establishing a small flock with Clun Forest x Tunis, mainly because that is what is available to us -- we know they're healthy, well bred, local sheep that are from good breeding stock. Their main purpose will be to graze the old orchard and the slope leading down into it. An easy life. Lots of good grass.
  17. Robin has quite a bit of white so he's fairly easy to spot when the fields are brown in winter and in the late spring, but in the fall, here in the Northeast, he's in "camo" as autumn is his color...but oh, he looks pretty running across the near field in the summer... . Yet, even in the snow, Brodie is the easiest to spot - easier even than the more traditionally marked Ladybug, though he has a greater amount of white - he just seems to stand out. He has a nice black saddle on his back - and a dark face. If the dogs disappear, he's the one I look for first...
  18. Does the way the sheep react to a particular dog depend their familiarity with the type with which they have been worked or is it something more ingrained in the sheep?
  19. Even my own mother, (a farm girl herself, but whose idea of a Border Collie starts and ends with a dog like Ladybug)keeps shaking her head when she looks at Robin . Poor dog. There was a mini-reunion at his birth farm last week and he stood out among his Border Collie cousins like a Cardinal in a convent .
  20. A year and a half a go, when I was considering what to do with my pups, someone with quite a bit of trial experience quite bluntly told me to train Brodie and "do something else with Robin" in quite a dismissive tone - this without ever seeing either one of them on sheep! It was quite hurtful, as I valued this person's opinion, but I decided to take Robin along with Brodie for a few starter lessons because this person hadn't given me any real reason why NOT to take him and it turns out that he as well as Brodie have both interest and ability. There was a discussion a few months back about the handler being able to see the various coats/ color combinations at different times of day and weather - to me, this is the only argument that carries any real weight for choosing one color dog over another once you've determined ability. But the potential sheep reacting to different coat colors is interesting, but then wouldn't the sheep also react to different coats, ears, body size and bone structures as well? Liz
  21. Wendy, I know this as been discussed at various times before, (and if you like, please PM me), but as I have some small aspirations for Robin, I would like to hear of your experiences. Liz
  22. Robin's aren't exactly yellow -- sort of greenish gold. They were a very bright blue until he was about four-five months old. We thought they would stay blue, then they began to slowly change color. Interesting bit of folklore as Brodie (Robin's littermate) is a pattern white, though could likely carry the red gene and his eyes are dark amber - certainly not the soft brown like Ladybug's . @Pippin's Person - Folks generally get Brodie right as "some kind of Border Collie", but in spite of his beautiful plumed tail, hazard a guess that as a red tri, Robin is an Aussie -- sigh-- and these pups came out of a pattern white bred to a black and white rough coat. (Ladybug is not related to them - she's a rescue) As the song says, "Goes to show you never can tell..."
  23. And there's this one -- English 2010 National Champ - but the bloodlines would be a bit far... I don't think you can "find" a red dog -- I think one has to find you . Robin and I may never make it to the trial field, but we'll have a heck of a journey, considering our life together so far... Liz
  24. Yeah, it's cold up here! (Northeast PA) We're learning how to play a band -- Ladybug is tooting a bicycle horn, Robin is ringing a bell as well as tooting the horn and Brodie (when I can find one) will smack a tambourine because he likes to use his paws -- meanwhile he is also tooting the horn if I lay it down on the floor where he can hit it with his paws and ringing the bell with his nose. DH only allows us to practice for a short time but I think eventually we will be able to play a simple tune . Liz
  25. Do you know what kind of barking it is? Is it a warning? Excited? Stressed? Attention? Until you can determine exactly why she's barking and what she's trying to say, then "one size fits all discipline" might not be as effective as you'd like. Robin is the mouthy one in the family... when we are all playing games together he stress barks because he wants to make sure he's doing the right thing and when he's done his trick, he barks because he wants to make sure that everyone knows what a wonderful thing he's done. Instead of telling him repeatedly "Be quiet" (which wasn't working), I started telling him to lie down when he was barking. He doesn't bark while he is lying down. Now, when he starts his bark bark bark in excitement, I just look at him and he lies down and shuts his yap. Sometimes he even self disciplines himself. He'll start bark bark, then remember his manners, sigh and lie down. But Robin never barks at anything outside the house (except for one time, but that was a rather shady sales person and it was one very deep WOOOF!) He leaves doorbell duty up to Ladybug (and Brodie her understudy). She gets to yap yap yap, somebody's here and that's it. No more barking. I don't mind her doing this because she (used to) hear a car pulling in the driveway before I did and knew which door someone was at...helpful when you live in the country. So, I might try swapping out discipline for teaching her a new behavior...if you ask her to sit, lie down, go to her mat...you are gaining control of her barking by working on an alternative behavior without getting frustrated yelling, "Stop barking" and having her not listen. The clicker is a very helpful tool in working on this kind of behavior modification. Also, think about, do you want the dog to bark just a bit when someone comes to the door? (I do, actually.) I want them to say: WARNING THREE DOGS INSIDE..ONE AT EACH DOOR.... and a CAT! . Liz
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