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Eileen Stein

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    Shady Side, MD, USA

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  1. Eileen Stein

    Is my BC ok?

    I'm moving this topic to General Border Collie Discussion.
  2. Eileen Stein

    Periodic Incontinence

    You're right, Smalahundur. I will look into whether we can do that. JBell, welcome to the Boards. I am moving your post to the General Border Collie Discussion forum.
  3. Eileen Stein

    EOAD and ABCA Health Foundation Research

    After reading the BCSA minutes Journey posted, my guess is that what happened here is this. The person referred to as "Jim Nicholson" in the minutes is probably Dr. James Mickelson, a researcher at U Minn who is collaborating with Dr. Hannes Lohi on the HEF-supported hearing study. The researchers have been making excellent progress on this project, and I suspect Jim might have made reference to this when discussing a different research topic with the BCSA, which got inflated in transit into "a test for deafness is about to be announced." The Board of ABCA HEF is conferring closely with the researchers right now in hopes of being able to present to the ABCA members at the September annual meeting as full and correct a description as possible of the status of the research and the testing it is aimed at. We will be sharing whatever information we are free to share with all interested people at that time, as well as with the ABCA membership.
  4. Eileen Stein

    ADMIN: Please Read

    Sadly, we ARE still having trouble. There are memory resource issues that our website host and the software manufacturers are working together (read: arguing and pointing fingers) to try to overcome. That is what's behind the problems you report, D'Elle, and I thank you (and everybody) for your patience and good wishes. We hope to have this all worked out soon. --Eileen
  5. Eileen Stein

    ADMIN: Please Read

    Well, it is not as simple as I made it sound. Turns out that the new software is incompatible with the skins we are using now. ("Skins" are the design elements -- such as the blue-purple color, the dog picture in the banner, etc. -- that make the Boards look unique rather than generic. Sometime today they will revert to looking generic, the way they did before we did the last re-design. Hopefully it won't take long before we can have the skins restored, but in the meantime it will be functional but not look pretty. Again, thanks for your patience. --Eileen
  6. Hi Everybody, Once again we reached a point where our Boards software was out of date and no longer being supported. We had to do an upgrade, which was supposed to be seamless but as usual was not seamless. I apologize to everyone who tried to log onto the Boards the last couple of days and were unable to do so. The new software is in place now and theoretically there should be no future problems, but we all know how that goes, so please post here to let me know if you do run into problems. There are two significant changes that we had to make. 1) The software no longer has separate entries for username and display name, so we had to pick one or the other to serve for both. We chose display name, on the theory that it is the one most people know. A lot of the people who email me saying they can't get on the Boards are being tripped up because they forget that their username is different from their display name, and they don't remember their username. This will eliminate that problem at least. 2) There is no longer a "friends" feature, instead there is a "followers" feature. We had the choice of making all friends into followers, or dropping the "friends" function altogether. We chose to drop "friends," because on reviewing the way that "followers" would operate, it appeared that it would make formerly confidential information accessible to other people, without warning. Again, if you have any comments, questions or complaints, please post them in this thread or contact me privately. Thank you all for your patience. --Eileen
  7. Eileen Stein

    Border Collie in Agility with Glasses

    That was fascinating, thanks for posting. I once knew a dog who got contact lenses after it became clear she was very nearsighted, but that was a hassle to implement. This dog looks very comfortable as a glasses wearer.
  8. Eileen Stein

    MDR1 - can we eradicate?

    The scientists on the Board did not want to use the term "incomplete dominant," because they don't consider that terminology to be totally accurate, both for the reasons expressed in the video Mark linked to, and others that are more complicated (but I'm happy to try to explain them if you want). We thought the education mission would be better served by explaining the effect of the heterozygous and homozygous forms of MDR1rather than using a problematic term. You seem to think that HEF is fiddling while the breed burns, and I'm sorry for that, but there are many considerations involved in arriving at a breeding recommendation (and not all of the diseases we list have a breeding recommendation). First of all, these dogs are not unhealthy. They have a genetic flaw, as all of us do, but the vast majority of them will live out their lives without any ill effects from this genetic flaw. I think any recommendation we might arrive at has to take this fact into account -- the approach of trying to totally eliminate a gene mutation from the breed is impractical and carries its own risks. Many other facts have to be weighed in also, including prevalence, which is not easy to determine, and which can change over time, although it's not going to jump from its current level to 70% of the breed during the time we are deliberating. The fact that a national champion carries the mutation is something that must be taken into account, but only because that dog will likely be bred from more than other dogs, which will have some bearing on prevalence. I think you're probably right that this discussion is not going to result in the immediate satisfaction of your concerns, but be assured we are taking those concerns into account, and will try to deal with them in the best way possible.
  9. Eileen Stein

    MDR1 - can we eradicate?

    Journey, I'm not sure I understood your last post correctly. First off, you've apparently read the MDR1 material on the HEF website. Can you please tell me if there is anything there that you believe to be incorrect? Or is your issue only that it contains no breeding recommendation? Second, you seem to be suggesting here that HEF is misrepresenting or suppressing something about MDR1 due to "who it involves." Am I reading you right? If so, would you please be more specific about your allegation? Who is it that you believe HEF is trying to favor, appease, help, or whatever by what we are doing or failing to do? Why would we want to favor, appease, help, etc. this person? Third, I think you have misunderstood Mark's posts about ivermectin. I did not read them as saying ivermectin is horrible.
  10. Eileen Stein

    MDR1 - can we eradicate?

    For heaven's sake. Sorry, been away, I just discovered this thread. This is the HEF site that I assume Journey is talking about: https://bordercolliefoundation.org/health-and-eduction/genetic-diseases/ If everyone referred to that -- the chart, and the info on MDR1 (ABCB1) in the text below it -- it would make the issue clearer. The chart used to say "recessive" as the mode of inheritance. Following contact from Journey and a review of the literature, we dropped that, and substituted a description of the implications of heterozygosity and homozygosity in the text. We do not feel we can use the term "affected" to describe heterozygous dogs for the reason Mark states -- "Affected" is commonly understood to mean homozygous mutant. It took us awhile to agree on the best language to use, but the wording there now has been up for quite a while -- more than a month anyway. The only wording still under discussion is the prevalence rate, which we hope to have resolved soon.
  11. Eileen Stein

    Talking to Animals by Jon Katz

    Oh no, never facebook! Seriously.
  12. Eileen Stein

    Talking to Animals by Jon Katz

    Okay, I've been away for a week and have just now had a chance to review these videos. This still seems to me an exercise in futility, but here are my reactions: The video of CM and Holly the lab is clearly not Cesar's finest moment. but in no way would I describe this as punching a dog in the throat as a training method. I'm assuming the owner called CM because his dog was attacking him when he tried to take her food dish away or interacted with her near her food dish. CM comes up to the dog with a food dish, squats, puts it down and clearly shows by his body language that he's not giving her the food yet. She looks around, seems unsure, does not seem hostile or afraid. He says okay and indicates that she can eat, which she does. He talks a little. He then moves forward a little and gives a quiet verbal signal that he is taking possession of the dish, but showing no aggression toward her. She quickly snarls and snaps at him, turning back to the dish, clearly expecting him to back off. Instead he moves forward a little more, making it clearer he is claiming the food, and swiping his right hand in a fist around the area where the dish is. She snarls again and lunges forward, and his hand makes contact with her neck. It happens very quickly, and at most I'd say he is pushing her back, but the force of his hand and arm (such as it is) goes past her, not into her. He then assumes a very aggressive posture, not attacking her, but in defense of the food dish, and she continues snarling for a few moments, looking unsure, considering her options, and eventually lies down and looks around. She is in a yard, not cornered. She does not appear terrified or even fearful, and he immediately drops the aggressive body language, backs off a bit, squats down again, and starts talking to the owner. After a bit, with her lying calmly, he casually reaches out a hand to her, not at all aggressively. She snarls, he doesn't move for a heartbeat, and then she snarls, lunges and bites him, continuing the attack for a couple of seconds, during which he fends her off at one point with his foot (could not possibly be interpreted as a kick, IMO). There is then a five minutes standoff between the two of them, with him giving no ground, and her looking uncomfortable and resentful, and very gradually relaxing. He does say he didn't see the attack coming, and I'm sure he's been in many, many situations like this where no attack came. I don't know any trainer who hasn't misread a dog at some point, and in other episodes I've watched he demonstrates an ability to read dogs and dog-human interactions extremely well. He at no time manhandled her, choked her, forced her down, or did anything that could reasonably be interpreted as abuse. I also noted that when that video stopped playing on YouTube, another one came along with a title something like "Dog that bit Cesar Millan -- Kiss Attack," which showed CM and the dog at his place interacting together in a relaxed and affectionate way as he talks with the dog's owner. Another video that came along when I watched this one showed this dog a few years later with a person named Cheri Lukas, who I gather (from yet another video that came along) runs a rescue, respects CM, and works cooperatively with him in training and placing dogs. The person who owned the dog when he called CM for help was a guy who rescued and placed feral street dogs (37 so far), and had captured this one (he noted how many fight scars the dog had on its face at that time) to train and place. He never intended to keep the dog. The dog went to CL's shelter for further training, and was eventually adopted into a family, where she says he is fine with everyone--parents, adult kids, grandchildren, visitors, other dogs, etc. It's implied but not stated that he lives in the house. FWIW -- as with anything on TV or the Internet, it could be fake or it could be real (but the fact that it could be fake is no reason to believe it IS fake, and vice versa). I'm sure it would come up if you searched "Jon Bee." These two videos apparently cast CM in the worst light, since they seem to be used over and over again on the net to show how bad he is. Kill me, but after watching them I still wish I had his physical eloquence, timing and clarity in training dogs.
  13. Eileen Stein

    Talking to Animals by Jon Katz

    Good question. I WAS surprised when you brought CM into the Katz discussion, since the only relevance/parallel I can see is that the majority of posters here dislike both of them (and that seemed to be your point too). I didn't mean to characterize a CM criticism as "bad" and the Katz criticism as "good," but I do think there are some major differences when it comes to the worth of any discussion of the two of them. First off, Katz professes to be an expert on BORDER COLLIES, and to explain them to the world at large. Even their thoughts from beyond the grave! :-) I feel a responsibility to challenge that, in a way that I wouldn't feel about a general dog trainer whose methods were different from mine. Second, and more important, is the matter of access to evidence. In this thread there was unanimity about Katz, so no dispute arose, but in previous threads over time there have often been people who stuck up for him, and in those cases I and others have quoted fairly extensively from his books to explain our points. But what access do we have to similar evidence about CM? Someone says he punches dogs in the throat. I've never seen that, and no particular episode is referenced. So did the person actually see him punch a dog in the throat, or has she just heard from others that he punched a dog in the throat? It seems like a very odd thing to do. Was it really a punch, or more like a poke? If I had seen it, would I have perceived it as a punch? Would I have thought it was abusive or not? I don't know because I didn't see it and have no practical way of seeing it. Are the dogs someone says were terrified and shut down actually terrified and shut down? If I had seen it I could draw my own conclusions and point specifically to the reasons for my conclusions, but because I haven't seen it, I can't. The episodes I have seen, I didn't witness anything I thought was abusive. But I have no way of knowing whether the other poster saw those, and if so, whether she considered them abusive or not abusive. So we have no common frame of reference and are, as Maja says, just exchanging monologues. In the dark. To no purpose.
  14. Eileen Stein

    Border Collies or Holsteins?!?

    There's a theory that eating grass had an evolutionary advantage for dogs because it was better at moving out intestinal parasites than other things that dogs eat. Don't know if there's any data to support this, though.
  15. Eileen Stein

    Talking to Animals by Jon Katz

    As I said when I misguidedly entered this CM abuse fest, no one has ever had their minds changed about Cesar Millan through discussion. That is especially true when the discussion participants don't have mutual direct access to the videos and other evidence in question. Given that, I respectfully withdraw from the discussion. But you've sure got Katz's number, D'Elle.