Hey all, new registered user, longtime lurker here.

I have two BC's- I have done minimal herding with one (an instinct test, some round pen, and a little bit of A course work). Though she would be my ideal dog to start out with (she has the instinct, a fantastic down, and is generally great on the field), she is limited in what she can do because of an old injury. The rescue I got her from would prefer to not have her herding, and while I'm sure she could have handled it when she was a little younger I really doubt she could handle it now since any physical activity results in a full day of limping.

My other BC needs quotes to go along with "Border Collie" because I'm not actually sure what he is. He stalks like a Border Collie, but jumps, acts, and looks like an Aussie (with a tail). Aussie Rescue has speculated that he is most likely Border Collie/Aussie. Border Collie rescues state otherwise. Personally, I have no idea.

Anyway, my BC/Aussie went through an instinct test and spent the entire time barking and lunging at the sheep (he barks at things that make him nervous). He responded the same way to the cattle (through the fence) that were penned up next to the sheep. Initially all watching decided he just didn't have the herding instinct. A few hours later, he escaped from me and ran under the gate while another dog was working sheep in a much large field. Instead of responding by barking and lunging, he started herding!

He is a car chaser- which he learned from the older BC. When running around with a large group of dogs, he will single out my older BC and herd only her.

So my question is, would most herding instructors be willing to scratch the round pen and take my dog out to an A course set up to test his instinct? Does it sound like there is any hope for him, or should I just aim to start herding when I get a third dog?

I have only ever really observed working Border Collies, so I'm not too keen on the differences between a working Border Collie and a working Aussie (besides the obvious "crouch"). I know a lot of these are things I should ask the trainer (when I actually find one!) but I would love to have your opinions!

I attached a picture of the both of them- my older BC is the black and white one and the BC/Aussie is the red and white. Sorry for the bad quality- it is apparently a rule that you only have your cell phone handy when your dog does something really cool!

I too have a Border / Aussie cross. He shows both sides when herding. At first he was all aussie and had absolutely no eye. But now that we have doing it for about 6 months (I'm a newbie at this too) we are starting to see a lot more of the border collie style coming out. The barking and lunging sounds more like an Aussie but the picture seems to show that he has some border collie style. Border Collie have what is called eye ("crouch") and Aussie are called loose eyed so when they need to move a sheep they are famous for shouldering them. Mine will still bark if he gets frustrated. I think most trainer might want to see him in the round pen at first and then an understanding trainer should take your advice and try a larger pen. I definitely think there is hope for you. He could become a very good working dog but he just needs direction. You may want to look for a trainer that works with loose eyed breeds. One thing is he should show balance on the stock. If he doesn't show that he balances the stock to the handler then some trainers say that balance can't be trained therefore he is not a good candidate for a working dog. Hopefully you explore your options before giving up on him. I have truly enjoyed learning about the herding world.

Thank you so much Tiana! Fantastic insight.

I really do not want to give up on him and have no intention of doing so. He is a spectacular disc dog, and I have high hopes for him in other sports. I just have my heart set on herding and would love to learn with him.

Forgive my ignorance (I'm sure you understand the "newb" factor) but when you say "balance", what exactly do you mean? That he is herding all the stock and not singling one out like he does with my other dog?

Glad to hear from a fellow BC/Aussie owner!

Hi, Christina (I recognize you from the other board!). I am very much a novice at all this, but my advice would be to find a trainer who is willing to put your dog on sheep, see how he looks and then take it from there. An "instinct test" doesn't really tell a whole lot. Good trainers will usually not make a snap decision after seeing a dog on sheep for the first time. I would definitely give him another chance to see how it goes, before you decide you have to wait for another dog. The next trainer may want to put him in a round pen again, but your dog may respond differently, the trainer may work him differently, or the trainer might see something in him that the other didn't. Don't worry about courses and that type of thing, if the trainer thinks that something about the round pen isn't a good fit for him, he/she will decide if it's a bigger field he needs, or what might work best for him. And it might take a few sessions for the trainer to really see what's there, so again, don't rush into judgement on the first try.

Good luck!

ETA: Hopefully some of the people here will have some ideas of trainers you might contact in your area.

Well again I'm a newbie and I'm sure a veteran could be able to explain it better. But the best way to explain it is it should go handler, sheep, dog in a straight line. With the sheep always in the center. If the handler moves clockwise then the dog should also in order to balance the sheep to the handler. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Tiana- Gotcha! I understand exactly what you mean- thanks!



Hi Paula! I have seen you around here when I was "lurking" but completely forgot about it until now.

You're right- I think a few dogs take more than one try to turn on to sheep anyway, don't they? I'm definitely going to give it another go with him this summer.

Finding a trainer in my area was really my next question. The closest one is an hour away and a "big hat" who I am a little intimidated by....probably not really anybody who would be willing to waste their time with my shelter mutts, but it might be worth asking for a lesson or two anyway. Otherwise I know of one other instructor (also an hour away) who usually trains Aussies. Might be a good fit....

Thank you for your input!

There is a bit more to balance than that as you are hoping your dog will seek and hold pressure as well but it will be best explained by your new found trainer when you get lessons. Much easier to see on stock than explain online.

dave

I have 3 dogs that I have had a go with herding. My young working bred BC, no problems from his first sighting with sheep. With my young rescue working bred Koolie, he completely ignored sheep and seemed frightened of them. After a few weeks of taking him with me to watch my BC working, his instinct suddenly kicked in real strong. He is now just as hooked as my BC and works them beautifully, he is an upright worker, but strong and calm.

Then we have my 3yo showbred BC, she is great in the roundyard and has great balance but she has no push. In the paddock she is fine if the sheep move themselves, she can keep them together but if they stand she is unable to move them and the sheep know it. She does not seem yo have the ability to apply and hold pressure, which both my other dogs have no problem with.

Carol Campion is close to you and is very good. I'd start there rather than any of the "Aussie" people around you (and I can say this because I know who all of the Aussie people are).

I'd second the choice of Carol Campion.

J.

I also would recommend Carol. You'll get started properly there. Bob

Guess I'm going to go with Carol! Thank you so much!

You won't regret going to Carol - she is excellent!

I wrote to Carol Campion. I'm hoping to start taking lessons this summer.

Thank you all for your advice!