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#21 Eileen Stein

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 04:04 PM

<< I'm trying to figure out what they would have against rescue organizations. Could it be because they are nonprofit? Is it as pathetic as a small amount of money that is motivating them? >>

No, I would guess the reason is that MO really is the puppy mill capital of the US, and the MO Dept of Agriculture sees puppies as commodities, dogs as breeding stock, and its role as supporting the dog farmer. That's why I think the media would be a more promising route, because there are probably a lot of people in the state (whether or not a majority) who would see it differently, and think this was a bad thing for their Ag Dept to be doing.

#22 Jenalyn

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 04:12 PM

Ugh, how awful :rolleyes:
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#23 BigD

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 05:25 PM

....sigh....this is such an up-hill battle. With folks like the $%#@! state of MO we will never win. How can people in a state NOT know that their dept of ag supports this? How can these people NOT vote against the laws that support puppy mills? How can the folks of this state not raise holy hell on a DAILY basis that their money is going to support this type of "business"?

Well, that just brought a horrible end to my already horrible day. I feel so bad for those dogs. Really, death is better than going back to another mill. How terrible...how horribly terrible.

:rolleyes:

#24 IronHorse

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 08:50 PM

There is a great deal I would like to say at this point But right now I am very drained from a VERY difficult week of dealing with this HANDS ON and I need time to recompose myself.
Surfice it to say that I know beyond any doubt that a great many of these dogs are in a much better situation then they were this time last week.
Pointing fingers at Missouri thinking it is to blame is really not looking at the big picture.
Sure Missouri is a battleground but its not the whole War.
Educate the people in Calif so they will stop shelling out a couple thousand bucks for a BC because they want a BC cause its the "IN" dog
do the same to the people of NY, really any densely populated area.
This is a War people, the battles are everywhere.
I have heard the talk and it has caused me to walk the walk at no small expense I will add.
It would be very easy for me to just go back to what I was doing a few short months ago,living my life,enjoying my wife,our farm, our animals, but knowing what I know now I could never live with myself if I turned a blind eye to this.
My foot has been set upon a path that for whatever purpose only by walking that path can i possibly hope to find where it leads.
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#25 BigD

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Posted 19 July 2005 - 09:29 PM

Ironhorse -

We are all on the same side. And like you said, the battles are everywhere - including MO. So I will point my fingers as will others becasue MO is KNOWN as the puppy mill state. And any state that 'funds' puppy mills is wrong. MO or any other state.

We can all help and education one person at a time. And we can only hope that through all that we do that some day, some one might make a difference in the life of one dog. And hopefully that will carry on.

I hope and pray that the dogs WILL be in a better situation that they were in a week ago. But for the state to re-sell to known breeders (intact no less) and purposely AVOID the rescue groups that were willing to take ALL the dogs, right then and there...well, that just reaks of alterior motive.

It's sad and I can only hope that these dogs will not suffer ever again.

Denise

#26 Christine

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 06:25 AM

Sure Missouri is a battleground but its not the whole War.
Educate the people in Calif so they will stop shelling out a couple thousand bucks for a BC because they want a BC cause its the "IN" dog
do the same to the people of NY, really any densely populated area.

biting my toungue!!!

#27 jenfitzh20

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 06:46 AM

Originally posted by muggs:
I'm trying to figure out what they would have against rescue organizations. Could it be because they are nonprofit? Is it as pathetic as a small amount of money that is motivating them?

Just to make everyone understand, its been mentioned many times but I'll say it again. The Missouri Dept of Agricultures job is to protect ag business within the state. Puppy mills are a very high powered group of business people, just check out http://www.thehuntecorporation.com/ . The Hunte Corp and the MDA are practically joined at the hip, they even link to each other on their websites. So this is about WAY more than "a small amount of money"...way more.

Now I don't have any numbers to back this up, but my thinking is that since breed rescue has become popular and more well known, they have begun to educate the public on where exactly those cute little puppies in the mall pet stores actually come from. I don't know if anyone has paid attention but its getting harder and harder to find those pet stores although they do still exist and have tried to make a comeback. So my understanding is that rescue has made a pretty big dent in the puppy mill industry.

This would be why they hate us.

#28 muggs

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 07:07 AM

I had no idea what a large/powerful industry it is- just shows you there are many to educate on the subject. I've learned so much since coming to this board, and was one who didn't have a good idea about where/how to go about getting a dog. I do now.
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#29 prosperia

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 07:34 AM

I have never seen a pet store sell puppies here in va. You can adopt cats at the petsmart, but that is about it. The place to go to get a pet around here is the SPCA.

There are so many things that are wrong about this situation. Fundamentally, even after seeing the abuse that the dogs have already recieved, how can they sleep at night knowing that they are quite possibly putting the dogs right back where they started from. All for money.
I had no idea there were places like this left.
Makes my heart sick when I think about how useless the people must feel that were invlolved in actually trying to help. Just to have the state step in and say--ok, everything is under control, now take a hike while we trash the situation.

Who here on the board has media connections?
Eileen, I have a border collie magazine that you did an article in. It may be a stretch, but do you think that there could be anyone with the leverage to get the story out? Or that they might know someone?

Ironhorse,
Do you have a "Call 12" kind of deal in Mo.-where you have the opportunity to call up your local tv station and tell them what is going on?
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#30 SoloRiver

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 08:06 AM

Unfortunately, there are plenty of pet stores in VA that sell puppies. Not as many as there used to be -- the message is getting out -- but they are definitely there.

When I was in college and didn't know any better, I had a summer job at a pet store that sold puppies and kittens. At that time I was an animal-obsessed teen who wasn't allowed to have pets of my own and it was the closest I could get. We didn't sell many puppies, they were very expensive (I remember because there was a Pom pup I desperately wanted to buy but I didn't have the $800 for him), but considered an essential part of the inventory because they drew people in to the store who would then buy other things. On the rare occasions we did sell a puppy, we were encouraged to tack on as many added purchases as possible.

To this day I am not sure where those puppies came from. The manager was adamant that they were not from mills and honestly horrified at the idea of puppy mills. The puppies that came through the store were generally much better quality than those sold at our competitors (i.e., they were not sick and looked like the breeds they were supposed to be). At the same time it is quite obvious that they did not come from caring breeders and when we needed more the manager would get on the horn and order them like any commodity ("I need two Cocker Spaniels and one Maltese," etc.).

There was never any occasion where we tried to talk someone out of a purchase even if we were doubtful about their ability or preparedness for having a dog. I remember one lovely little blue merle Sheltie puppy we sold -- this very uptight, buttoned-down lady with lots of money and a very expensive car came in and bossed us around getting supplies. She was very concerned that the puppy would be housebroken readily and not chew things and basically, not do things that puppies do, so we were able to sell her tons and tons of stuff with promises that they would do exactly the trick. I got the distinct impression that if the dog so much as sneezed on something the lady would totally freak out. That was my first intimation that maybe what we were doing was wrong. I'll never forget what the manager said as the lady left the store with the puppy: "That dog is in for a life of hell."

There are so many reasons why the "puppies as commodity" model doesn't work, but they all have to do with the welfare of the dogs. As long as the money keeps coming in, that little wrinkle is all too easy to ignore.
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#31 nancy in AZ

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 12:31 PM

I think I'll just go crawl in a hole now.
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#32 Eileen Stein

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 01:50 PM

<< Eileen, I have a border collie magazine that you did an article in. It may be a stretch, but do you think that there could be anyone with the leverage to get the story out? Or that they might know someone? >>

It seems like a local story to me, but I think it would be worth trying to interest one of the area papers or TV stations in it. Someone with a little first-hand knowledge would have to make the approach. It sounds to me like a story with a lot of potential from the press/media point of view.

#33 poorfarm

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 03:57 PM

Columbia Mo.. did you get to go and rescue some of those Border Collies??? Hopefully you tell us the situation isn't as bad as it seems... and they all have GOOD new homes...

#34 IronHorse

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Posted 20 July 2005 - 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Columbia MO:
Hi all,

I'm not affiliated with any BC rescue, but am one of the people that had stepped forward to foster a Border Collie from the group of 40 or so that were surrendered by Awesome Border Collies last week.

It turns out the the Missouri Dept. of Agriculture, in an effort to support puppy "agriculture," will not be offering any of these dogs to a rescue. Instead, the dogs/puppies are being offered unspayed and unneutered on a first come, first serve basis for $30 each. Commercial breeders are welcome to adopt, but anybody affiliated with a rescue is not. They started selling the dogs today, and were careful to NOT alert any of the rescue people that have been following this case. I have been told that most of the adopters have been local farmers (whether sheep farmers or puppy mill farmers is still an open question).

The dogs are being held at a Springfield MO area puppy mill auction place (http://www.onlinepetauction.com). They have already sold 11 of the dogs today, and there are two more buyers coming later today. I'm located 3 hours away and can't get there before they close, but am taking the day off work tomorrow and going to adopt at least one of these dogs myself. I'm hoping that every Missouri BC lover on this list who possibly can will join me in adopting one of these dogs.

The holding facility is located off Hwy 76 and the physical address is Route 1, Box 9D, Rocky Comfort, MO 64861. They are open normal business hours.

Note that MO Dept. of Ag. will ONLY sell dogs to people that are NOT affiliated with rescues and will NOT consider selling a dog to somebody that is acting as a foster home for a rescue. You must be willing to KEEP the puppy or dog that you adopt.

If you have any questions, you can call John Cupps, MO Dept. of Ag. at (417) 489-1214, or the puppy mill auction place at (417) 652-7540. Be courteous--both of these people were very nice when I talked to them on the phone. You can also reach me personally at k9shrink@prodigy.net.

Columbia, MO

A question of curiousity.
How was it that you came by all of this information when as far as I am aware the only ppl that were notified had to of been ppl on a "preferred client list" as there was no public notification of sale that I am aware of.
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#35 SHANDALEI

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 11:55 AM

If I may be so bold as to step in, I would like the viewers of this discussion to please view the other Awesome Border Collie Discussion Site and find out what my cousin viewed when he picked up his dog.

Thank you.
Shandalei

#36 kevin881

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Posted 23 July 2005 - 07:32 PM

link?
i am unfamiliar with the site, but would like to read.

#37 prosperia

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Posted 24 July 2005 - 06:07 AM

awsome bc's thread
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#38 SHANDALEI

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 07:17 AM

As I indicated before, this is not over yet. You have been taken down a path of vengence against me and I will prove it.

My dogs and puppies were kept in a turkey barn, filled with filth, fed and watered out of buckets. Their pens were graveled, no dog houses; in fact one of my dogs was seen running down the highway. Also, some of the dogs didn't even have food of water.

I'm not saying anymore for now because I have a lot pending on ALL of these circumstances against State and Individuals.

For now, Silence is Golden. Shere.

#39 prosperia

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 07:29 AM

:confused: Its just about now that you expect to hear the......BWWHAAHAAAHAA!!!!

Shere, I am sorry to hear about the pups circumstances. The state should have allowed the dogs to go to the rescue instead of selling them off to more puppy mills, no better than the place they came from.
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#40 juliepoudrier

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 08:05 AM

Huh? Why is all this being dragged up again? Shere, what are you talking about? Do you mean *after* you relinquished your dogs this is how they were kept? How about not bringing all this up till you have something substantial to say? No need to bring up these old threads to try and keep us interested. Instead, when you have some real facts to share, start a new thread. I'm sure interested folks will read it. Right now I can't help but think I'm reading nothing more than rantings of someone seeking attention....

J.

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