Ironhorse:
Wow. I'm so sorry. I feel so bad for you. Bless you for caring. If I can do anything for you guys, please let me know. I'll keep you and your family in our prayers. Hug Thunderbolt and know that he is safe and much luckier than the dogs that you had to leave behind today- take a little solice in that. I'm crying here myself Ironhorse, I never wanted you to learn this way.
My decision
Started by
IronHorse
, Jul 11 2005 06:31 PM
70 replies to this topic
#22
IronHorse
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I'd rather have an inch of a dog than miles of pedigree.
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 04:04 AM
juliepoudrier; thank you for your support.
I really do not know if she would be willing to sign over any rights to rescue at this time.
To be honest I am not at all sure she is coherent enough to make any decisions.
What we Witnessed was a great deal of denial and self pity,and very little what i would concider logic and right thinking.
Although my last words to her was to ask if she would like for me to do whatever was in my power to bring help onto the scene such as rescue or whatever I felt was the priority I doubt very seriously that she would recall what was said. My wife had checked her and her dwelling as best she could and determined that she had been taking excessive amounts of medications, in the form of anti depressants and sleeping meds,all prescribed but being taking beyond the scope of the dosage prescribed. My wife made every atempt to remove any remaining meds to no avail.
I really do not know if she would be willing to sign over any rights to rescue at this time.
To be honest I am not at all sure she is coherent enough to make any decisions.
What we Witnessed was a great deal of denial and self pity,and very little what i would concider logic and right thinking.
Although my last words to her was to ask if she would like for me to do whatever was in my power to bring help onto the scene such as rescue or whatever I felt was the priority I doubt very seriously that she would recall what was said. My wife had checked her and her dwelling as best she could and determined that she had been taking excessive amounts of medications, in the form of anti depressants and sleeping meds,all prescribed but being taking beyond the scope of the dosage prescribed. My wife made every atempt to remove any remaining meds to no avail.
#23
SQinAZ
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 04:09 AM
IronHorse (and Mrs. IronHorse):
Bless you both for what you are going through and for doing what you can to save the lives of some wonderful and innocent dogs. My prayers go out to you, as do my sincere thanks, as another animal lover. (((HUGS)))
Bless you both for what you are going through and for doing what you can to save the lives of some wonderful and innocent dogs. My prayers go out to you, as do my sincere thanks, as another animal lover. (((HUGS)))
#24
IronHorse
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I'd rather have an inch of a dog than miles of pedigree.
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 04:23 AM
Annette; I know that you wished with all your heart that this would not be what it has turned out to be. We thank you for your prayers and concerns. Sometime Creator has to kick me in the ass to make his lesson clear to me,but most often those lessons are the ones that are needed the most.
We are strong and resolute once we know the purpose of our path.
We did manage to rescue one of the bitchs that we now have in our possesion and we shall be taking her to the vets this afternoon again.
As much as we would like to rescue more of the dogs at this time I do not see that this person will be responsive to our personal intervention.
We are strong and resolute once we know the purpose of our path.
We did manage to rescue one of the bitchs that we now have in our possesion and we shall be taking her to the vets this afternoon again.
As much as we would like to rescue more of the dogs at this time I do not see that this person will be responsive to our personal intervention.
#25
Rebecca, Irena Farm
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 04:52 AM
First, let me commend you on your willingness to get involved. What happened to your pup's sire is heartbreaking, but what you've done already has gone a long way towards making his death a little less senseless. He was a lovely dog, by the way - one doesn't want to say so publically about what is clearly a substandard breeder, but I did think it.
Border Collie rescue can certainly get involved. That seems like a lot of dogs but if the owner will sign them over, they can be spread out over a nationwide area and ease the burden on local rescue.
Also, the breeders of previous generations might be able to help, ie, if she got brood bitches or studs from reasonably responsible breeders. Sometimes it happens that unsuspecting folks will send dogs to people like this who misrepresent themselves.
Finally, continue to work with the Humane Society - they know the laws in your area and can lend "official" backing for any efforts, plus more local contacts. They are interested in avoiding euthanizing dogs if at all possible - in fact, if there is some place else for the dogs to go, they are usually just as happy about it.
With this in mind, it would help if someone could do the following:
Get the breeder to agreee IN WRITING to relinquish the animals in her care. Every intact dog - she will beg to keep one or two most likely but this cannot be accepted. If she has just a couple she really wants to keep for sentimental reasons (and you feel her problems truly are just being overwhelmed and she's possibly capable of being reqponsible for a couple companion animals), see if local rescue will have them sterilized. But avoid this if at all possible.
Anyway, someone will need to catalog and ID every animal (use light colored nylon collars and a big sharpie marker). She must initial every animal - so she can't say later that she didn't agree to this one or that one going. Don't let her follow you (or whoever) around while doing the cataloging - the more she sees and lays hands on the animals, the more she'll start feeling connected again. This is where having a trained Humane Society associate along with you helps.
Set up publicity - both local and nationwide. This will accomplish two things - it will raise awareness about breeders like this (some people don't think that dogs like Border collies fall victim to this kind of breeding), and it will raise a pool of resources to draw on to foster, rehabilitate, and rehome the dogs themselves.
BCR-CA recently did a breeder bust and Bob Ann should have a good idea of the kind of budget such an operation will entail. They did a lot of the work on site, at their own kennels, of course.
If a single local Border collie rescue would get behind this, then we could work to support them in whatever was needed. I'll see whether I can contact someone myself, and I'm sure you'll get others contacting you directly.
Steel yourself for the possibility that this may come to very little - you caught this lady off guard (which was good) and you may get a very different story next time you talk. She may hide the dogs, clean up, and/or refuse any further interaction without legal action. Write down RIGHT NOW what you saw and get that notarized - that will help if you and the HS wants to get a court order. I'd also write a letter of complaint to the HS - it will take a bit longer but it's more official and they can't overlook it. Make copies of everything. Write down everything. Send everything certified and file the reciepts.
And don't forget next chance you get to visit, to snap some pictures, even if it's just of the place you buried the dog under her direction (which is illegal most urban places, by the way).
Good luck and please contact me privately if you'd like more advice and assistance.
Border Collie rescue can certainly get involved. That seems like a lot of dogs but if the owner will sign them over, they can be spread out over a nationwide area and ease the burden on local rescue.
Also, the breeders of previous generations might be able to help, ie, if she got brood bitches or studs from reasonably responsible breeders. Sometimes it happens that unsuspecting folks will send dogs to people like this who misrepresent themselves.
Finally, continue to work with the Humane Society - they know the laws in your area and can lend "official" backing for any efforts, plus more local contacts. They are interested in avoiding euthanizing dogs if at all possible - in fact, if there is some place else for the dogs to go, they are usually just as happy about it.
With this in mind, it would help if someone could do the following:
Get the breeder to agreee IN WRITING to relinquish the animals in her care. Every intact dog - she will beg to keep one or two most likely but this cannot be accepted. If she has just a couple she really wants to keep for sentimental reasons (and you feel her problems truly are just being overwhelmed and she's possibly capable of being reqponsible for a couple companion animals), see if local rescue will have them sterilized. But avoid this if at all possible.
Anyway, someone will need to catalog and ID every animal (use light colored nylon collars and a big sharpie marker). She must initial every animal - so she can't say later that she didn't agree to this one or that one going. Don't let her follow you (or whoever) around while doing the cataloging - the more she sees and lays hands on the animals, the more she'll start feeling connected again. This is where having a trained Humane Society associate along with you helps.
Set up publicity - both local and nationwide. This will accomplish two things - it will raise awareness about breeders like this (some people don't think that dogs like Border collies fall victim to this kind of breeding), and it will raise a pool of resources to draw on to foster, rehabilitate, and rehome the dogs themselves.
BCR-CA recently did a breeder bust and Bob Ann should have a good idea of the kind of budget such an operation will entail. They did a lot of the work on site, at their own kennels, of course.
If a single local Border collie rescue would get behind this, then we could work to support them in whatever was needed. I'll see whether I can contact someone myself, and I'm sure you'll get others contacting you directly.
Steel yourself for the possibility that this may come to very little - you caught this lady off guard (which was good) and you may get a very different story next time you talk. She may hide the dogs, clean up, and/or refuse any further interaction without legal action. Write down RIGHT NOW what you saw and get that notarized - that will help if you and the HS wants to get a court order. I'd also write a letter of complaint to the HS - it will take a bit longer but it's more official and they can't overlook it. Make copies of everything. Write down everything. Send everything certified and file the reciepts.
And don't forget next chance you get to visit, to snap some pictures, even if it's just of the place you buried the dog under her direction (which is illegal most urban places, by the way).
Good luck and please contact me privately if you'd like more advice and assistance.
Becca Shouse - Irena Farm, Semora, NC
Cord, Ted, Gus, Sam - plus Maggie, Zhi, Lynn, Jetta, Lu, Min, and Tully
http://irenafarm.blogspot.com/
Cord, Ted, Gus, Sam - plus Maggie, Zhi, Lynn, Jetta, Lu, Min, and Tully
http://irenafarm.blogspot.com/
#26
emmetteabrakai
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:02 AM
Iron Horse,
Bless you, bless your wife, and bless the poor woman who has drug you and her self and the hapless dogs in to this horrific mess. Here are a few sites that may help you.
http://www.mokanbcrescue.org/
http://www.bcrescue....;num=1084297286
This is in columbia but they may have contacts other places.
http://www.htsanctuary.com/
I have no personal knowledge of these folks but they have brought dogs to the vet school at times. So for what it's worth I posted them.
I live near Columbia about 3 1/2 to 4 hours to Sedalia. If there is any thing I can do let me know and I can see what I can work out. My whole yard is being dug up for a room addition an my fence is down so that limits me in what I can do at my house at this time. Good luck and God bless.
Andrea D
Bless you, bless your wife, and bless the poor woman who has drug you and her self and the hapless dogs in to this horrific mess. Here are a few sites that may help you.
http://www.mokanbcrescue.org/
http://www.bcrescue....;num=1084297286
This is in columbia but they may have contacts other places.
http://www.htsanctuary.com/
I have no personal knowledge of these folks but they have brought dogs to the vet school at times. So for what it's worth I posted them.
I live near Columbia about 3 1/2 to 4 hours to Sedalia. If there is any thing I can do let me know and I can see what I can work out. My whole yard is being dug up for a room addition an my fence is down so that limits me in what I can do at my house at this time. Good luck and God bless.
Andrea D
If you want to feel good do something good
#27
Cody's pop
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:07 AM
IronHorse,I'm a fellow missourian(Dittmer) and if you need any help with rescue,fostering,whatever it takes to help these dogs,just let me know,I'm up for anything that will save them.Just the thought of that beautiful dog lying there to rot sets me off! This should be nicknamed the Puppy Mill state,rather than the Show-me state.They have been trying to pass legislation making it a crime to photograph any animal breeding facility here in Mo for years now,even claiming it would deter terrorism!The cruel and inhumane treatment are widespread,as the nightly news proclaims a large rescue almost monthly.Cages stacked atop each other with the waste dropping through,dogs who can't walk,they have not been out of their cages since they were weaned,blak water to drink and rotten moldy kibble to eat.NO affection,limited human contact,bred till they drop dead and then left to rot,or fed to their starving kennelmates.Only human beings are evil enough to do these things.
#28
Nellie's Dad
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:09 AM
IronHorse,
I would also like to commend you on what you are doing in trying to help these dogs. I don't know if I would be able to be very calm around the type of situation you must have walked into. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife.
I don't know where you are located, but I do know of a BC rescue that is located in Independence, MO (this is where we got Nellie last year). There name is MoKan BC Rescue. I think that they are probably around 2-3 hours away from Stockton. They may be able to help or point you in a direction of people that can help in this situation.
If you would like you can email me at johnrenna@earthlink.net with the details and I will contact the person I have worked with to see if they even have room at this time.
I would agree with Rebecca that if we can get the dogs out of there, it may be helpful to try to raise some funds to help out the rescues/humane society that ends up with the dogs.
I wish there was more that I could do.
I would also like to commend you on what you are doing in trying to help these dogs. I don't know if I would be able to be very calm around the type of situation you must have walked into. Our thoughts and prayers are with you and your wife.
I don't know where you are located, but I do know of a BC rescue that is located in Independence, MO (this is where we got Nellie last year). There name is MoKan BC Rescue. I think that they are probably around 2-3 hours away from Stockton. They may be able to help or point you in a direction of people that can help in this situation.
If you would like you can email me at johnrenna@earthlink.net with the details and I will contact the person I have worked with to see if they even have room at this time.
I would agree with Rebecca that if we can get the dogs out of there, it may be helpful to try to raise some funds to help out the rescues/humane society that ends up with the dogs.
I wish there was more that I could do.
John, Renna & Nellie
#29
Rebecca, Irena Farm
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:16 AM
The HS should be experienced in handling the psychological aspect of this sort of thing. Basically you have to convince the collector/breeder that you are doing them a huge favor (bleah).
I hope and pray you recieve the strength to deal with what you've seen, and get the direction you need to go further.
Pictures of the new girl would be great!
I hope and pray you recieve the strength to deal with what you've seen, and get the direction you need to go further.
Pictures of the new girl would be great!
Becca Shouse - Irena Farm, Semora, NC
Cord, Ted, Gus, Sam - plus Maggie, Zhi, Lynn, Jetta, Lu, Min, and Tully
http://irenafarm.blogspot.com/
Cord, Ted, Gus, Sam - plus Maggie, Zhi, Lynn, Jetta, Lu, Min, and Tully
http://irenafarm.blogspot.com/
#30
MrSnappy
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I have nothing better to do than take photos all day. zzzzzz
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:20 AM
Have you contacted Animal Control / the Humane Society yet? What was the outcome? Can anyone verify that the Humane Society has been contacted and is doing something about this "situation?"
I think any fundraising efforts should be on hold until it has been verified that these dogs are actually in rescue.
RDM
I think any fundraising efforts should be on hold until it has been verified that these dogs are actually in rescue.
RDM
That'll Do Border Collie Rescue-Vancouver, BC Canada
TDBCR - "Where every dog is a Star"
TDBCR / 3 Woofs & A WooTWoo / Big Air Photography
TDBCR - "Where every dog is a Star"TDBCR / 3 Woofs & A WooTWoo / Big Air Photography
#31
Dream Puppy
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:38 AM
One of these babies was to be ours.
We are a long way away but how do we help IronHorse help all of these dogs.
At this point getting our baby is secondary to any support we might give to him and these poor animals.
We are a long way away but how do we help IronHorse help all of these dogs.
At this point getting our baby is secondary to any support we might give to him and these poor animals.
#32
Joe Anne
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Current pets: Phoenix 8 y/o BC boy
Bree 5 y/o Terrier Mix gir
Navi Guinea Pig
Pippin 1 y/o Cockatiel
Gimli Box Turtle and 2 fish
Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:57 AM
IronHorse...In Memory of Lightfoot's Sire, Lightfoot, and for his extended pack, which includes you and your wife...
Also to let you know we are ALL here for you and your efforts, you have a strong spirit IronHorse, your mission is clear to you, and you burn with the inner fire of unbreakable will !
SUN TRACKS.....the Track of the Sun across the Sky leaves its shining message, Illuminating, Strenghtening, Warming, us who are here, showing us we are not alone, we are yet ALIVE!
And this fire.... Our fire...Shall not die!
-Atoni- (Choctaw) prayer
Also to let you know we are ALL here for you and your efforts, you have a strong spirit IronHorse, your mission is clear to you, and you burn with the inner fire of unbreakable will !
SUN TRACKS.....the Track of the Sun across the Sky leaves its shining message, Illuminating, Strenghtening, Warming, us who are here, showing us we are not alone, we are yet ALIVE!
And this fire.... Our fire...Shall not die!
-Atoni- (Choctaw) prayer
JoeAnne & crew
Phoenix - 8 y/o male BC my whacky wonderful boy!
Bree - 5 y/o female Terrier Mix Lover of Life!
Pippin - my little boy Cockatiel 1 y/o ...Mr. Attitude!
Navi - my sweet, squeaky Guinea pig boy ...never asks for much but gives a lot!
our newly rescued box turtle - Gimli
and our tank full of fish!! WHEW!
REST IN PEACE MY BABIES ((HUGS))
Sitka -our big Akita girl with attitude (crossed Rainbow Bridge July 2012)
Thumper & Pika- bunny buddies (crossed Rainbow Bridge 2011)
Bashful- our turtle friend of over 25 yrs! (Rainbow Bridge 2010)
& Fishes Fanny and Gandalf 2012 ((hugs))
Phoenix - 8 y/o male BC my whacky wonderful boy!
Bree - 5 y/o female Terrier Mix Lover of Life!
Pippin - my little boy Cockatiel 1 y/o ...Mr. Attitude!
Navi - my sweet, squeaky Guinea pig boy ...never asks for much but gives a lot!
our newly rescued box turtle - Gimli
and our tank full of fish!! WHEW!
REST IN PEACE MY BABIES ((HUGS))
Sitka -our big Akita girl with attitude (crossed Rainbow Bridge July 2012)
Thumper & Pika- bunny buddies (crossed Rainbow Bridge 2011)
Bashful- our turtle friend of over 25 yrs! (Rainbow Bridge 2010)
& Fishes Fanny and Gandalf 2012 ((hugs))
#33
IronHorse
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I'd rather have an inch of a dog than miles of pedigree.
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:01 AM
I am very close to making the call to the Mo HS
Thank you all very much for your support in this matter.
I think that I should go ahead now and make contact with the HS and see what they have to say.
I will let you all know just as soon as I know
Thank you all very much for your support in this matter.
I think that I should go ahead now and make contact with the HS and see what they have to say.
I will let you all know just as soon as I know
#34
prosperia
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:18 AM
arkansas bc rescue
midwest bc rescue
nebraska BC rescue
midamerica bc rescue
Here are more links to rescues surrounding MO.
I hope this helps. I wish there was more I could do to lend a hand. Please know that I am very sorry and will keep you and everyone involved in this terrible situation in my prayers.
Maria
midwest bc rescue
nebraska BC rescue
midamerica bc rescue
Here are more links to rescues surrounding MO.
I hope this helps. I wish there was more I could do to lend a hand. Please know that I am very sorry and will keep you and everyone involved in this terrible situation in my prayers.
Maria
************************
Maria & Jenna
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Maria & Jenna
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#35
IronHorse
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I'd rather have an inch of a dog than miles of pedigree.
- Gender:Male
- Location:Missouri
- Interests:As varied as the leaves on a tree and as simple as whats for dinner?
Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:31 AM
I have just finished making the initial call to the HS of Missouri,the director is not available today but I was able to leave a detailed recording of the situation that exsists.
I gave her my personal contact information and am quite sure that she will contact me asap.
meanwhile I believe i shall go ahead and file an online Abuse report with the HS.
I can only pray now that with a combined effort by all of you as well as the sources you are suppling me with that as many of these dogs as possible can be rescued and will find the loving homes they so deserve.
THANK YOU ALL
I gave her my personal contact information and am quite sure that she will contact me asap.
meanwhile I believe i shall go ahead and file an online Abuse report with the HS.
I can only pray now that with a combined effort by all of you as well as the sources you are suppling me with that as many of these dogs as possible can be rescued and will find the loving homes they so deserve.
THANK YOU ALL
#36
Betsy
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:54 AM
I just spoke with the president of our rescue (Nebraska Border Collie Rescue located in Omaha, NE). If this bust goes through, we may be able to take a couple of dogs, but we don't have a lot of openings at this time.
Our local humane society is a no kill shelter (for the most part, unless they don't pass the tempermant tests) and the humane society president is a border collie lover and owner, herself. This humane society could probably take some dogs as well, though I can't speak for them. Here is their contact info:
http://www.nehumanesociety.org/
(402) 444-7800
Our local humane society is a no kill shelter (for the most part, unless they don't pass the tempermant tests) and the humane society president is a border collie lover and owner, herself. This humane society could probably take some dogs as well, though I can't speak for them. Here is their contact info:
http://www.nehumanesociety.org/
(402) 444-7800
Betsy
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Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living.
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Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living.
#37
Betsy
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:59 AM
Betsy
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Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living.
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Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living.
#39
Cody's pop
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:18 AM
I can foster a couple and would adopt a couple if necessary.The 10 week old pup I was going to get from a local vet was adopted by his housekeeper,so I'm open for an adoption or two.I'm about 30 mi. southwest of St.Louis,about 2- 2 1/2 hrs away by I44.
#40
nancy in AZ
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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:00 AM
Ironhorse, your story and ensuing anguish moved me to tears. Other than moral support I don't know how much help I can be. I realize I'm quite a far distance from you, but I would like to help place some of these dogs,so please don't hesitate to contact me. I do know of some area fosters that especially cater to stock dogs. Also I would be willing to help with transport if there are any homes available to take them in the southwest.
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