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#1 DeltaBluez Tess

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:18 AM

Hi All,

I read that a person is breeding for MINI Border Collies...and that NASDS is going to register them. (possibly as Minis)

Has anyone heard of this. This person is very adament about her Mini's being registered in NASDS and maybe being recognized as Minis

Diane
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#2 Northof49

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:34 AM

I know some people in the States are trying to breed Border Collies down to meet the 16" height requirement for AKC Agility (I don't know what the height cut off is), and people have always been trying to breed BCs down for height dogs for flyball. However, any Border Collie of any size can be registerd with any Border Collie registry.

Lots of people here in flyball and agility think my Border Collies are huge - my bitches are approx. 20.75 inches tall and my males are always around the 21.5 inch mark. They want Border Collies under 18".

I remember when Bi-black Shelties became popular a few years back - I had quite a few people asking me about where they could get a miniature Border Collie from :rolleyes: :D

#3 Carson Crazies

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:40 AM

I haven't heard that. Some people have asked me if this is a miniature Border Collie :rolleyes: :
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Caroline, I have seen some of the ones at flyball tourney's like you mention. Very sad indeed. They seemed to be on such short stumpy little legs...

Diane, I wouldn't be surprised. It may even be something like the "teacup" yorkies and poodles. There actually is no such thing, just minis being bred to sub-standard and dangerously small sizes. :D Its all very sad, and BC politics aside so many of the other breeds of mini's and teacups have just unbelievable health problems.
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#4 Olivia

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 10:55 AM

I have heard the same things about breeding mini border collies. My Carlie dog is 17 inches tall and jumps 16" in AKC. (Yes, I do AKC agility and don't want to discuss it in this thread.) I was approached once about breeding her to get short border collies. The person was very disappointed to learn that Carlie is spayed. She is very nicely proportioned with good leg length, just short.

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#5 sea4th

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 12:37 PM

I'd want to hear something from NASDS as far as this concerned. Old Arthur Allen would be rolling over in his grave, if this is true.

I'll take this with a grain of salt until I hear words from the organization themselves.

There are enough reasons to doubt and one of these reasons might be to discredit NASDS as a working registry. All speculation and I have no proof, but it's a thought.

It's not that I doubt these "breeds" are created. This sort of thing has been going on for years, but I usually associate the creation of these things with profiteers and now to satisfy the vanity of dog sport freaks---a seedy practice, in my opinion.

What I do question, is the registration of these dogs. I can only hope that what Diane read about is wishful thinking on someone's part---wishful, but misguided.

If NASDS comes forth and says it's true, it will be yet another sad day for the working border collie----when these bastardized versions of a breed are used to fill a registry.

Based solely on what is presented here, this practice would make NASDS no better than the Continental Kennel Club, the World Wide Kennel Club, or any other of these registries that were created to sop up the mess of backyard breeders and puppymills in an effort to lend legitimacy to designer mutts.
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#6 RaisingRiver

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 04:06 PM

Mini Aussies are a VERY HOT item.

#7 DeltaBluez Tess

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:20 PM

....from the person in question......to a friend of mine....

>>I breed Mini BC's. There is such a thing.......<<<<<

>>>>> They are however selectively bred to be a lot smaller than the AVERAGE. My dogs are sold to working homes, furthermore they are in the process of being Reg. through foundation stock Reg. which is, if you do your homework, the original home of all Registries.<<<<<<

diane
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#8 Jennifer Glen

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Posted 23 March 2006 - 05:29 PM

I think you'd be lucky to get ANY BC registered with NASDS. They have fallen apart recently. They had a change in hands but I hear it is a horrible nightmare for them to sort through. They basically lost my friend's dog's registration. Never to be seen again. Fortunately we heard about that before we sent ours to them so we sent it to ABCA instead and they registered the dog for us.
So unless this woman knows something I don't, she won't be getting that registration from NASDS any time soon. - kinda puts a hole in her story doesn't it?
Jenny
PS Laura, that is a cute Papillion!

#9 toney

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:09 AM

"Foundation STock registry"- could be a reference to the old ARF- Animal Registry Foundation - that operated in the mid- 70's-80's, the guy who started it died but I heard a few years ago that his son or some relative started it back. I had heard of the ARF registering stockdogs long before I had ever heard of the NASDS or AIBC.

#10 Northof49

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 08:00 AM

"I think you'd be lucky to get ANY BC registered with NASDS. They have fallen apart recently. They had a change in hands but I hear it is a horrible nightmare for them to sort through"

Jennifer - do you know how recent this was? A friend of mine is planning a litter early next year, and she usually registers with NASDS as well as CBCA. The last time she registered pups with NASDS was in early 2004.

#11 Jennifer Glen

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:12 AM

My notes say it was April of 2004 when my friend had the trouble with NASDS and they still have not gotten to his registration.
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#12 Northof49

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for the information Jennifer. I think we will give NASDS a call and see what's up with them.

#13 Northof49

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:37 AM

Originally posted by toney:
"Foundation STock registry"- could be a reference to the old ARF- Animal Registry Foundation - that operated in the mid- 70's-80's, the guy who started it died but I heard a few years ago that his son or some relative started it back. I had heard of the ARF registering stockdogs long before I had ever heard of the NASDS or AIBC.

Isn't there also a registry in the States call the National Stockdog Registry or something like that where you can register any kind of stock dog?

#14 DeltaBluez Tess

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:40 AM

more info from the breeder.....she breds the Minis and gets $750 for them.....this is her reply to some folks.


>>>Yes they are pure bred dogs. They mature at 16 inches or slightly smaller. They will be a high drive litter to go to working homes. They
will be $750. I have a list of people already, but I am not taking deposits until the ultrasound. She is due May 21st.

I did not post her email/name but if you want it, email me offline"<<<<<<


BCR rescue of PNW has had several Mini Border Colies in rescue......we don't know if theya re from her but.......


Diane
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#15 SoloRiver

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 11:26 AM

Gross.

When she says "working homes," does she mean sport homes?

Sheltie people cannot even guarantee that their dogs will mature below 16", and they have been doing the small dog thing for a long time. With Border Collies so variable in size, I don't see how anyone can possibly guarantee that their dogs will remain small.

Color me disgusted.
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#16 Rhborder

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 11:56 AM

I think my friend has some of these "mini Border Collies" She has never referred to them as that, but they fit that description. She recently bred a litter for dogs to run in the 16" hieght division, and you are absolutly corect SoloRiver, even though the parents were tiny, the pups have matured into dogs that are about the size of my kiowa, who jumps 20-24".

#17 toney

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 12:31 PM

Sorry- ARF is the Animal Research Foundation...not Registry FOundation, I misspoke before.

#18 DeltaBluez Tess

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 04:32 PM

Here is the thread.....

http://seattle.craig...bbreviation=pet

Start from the bottom and read up. Apparently she answered the second post privately to my friend who said that Border Collies should be bred for work. That person she replied to then sent me part of the email (above) that she bred for MINI BORDER COLLIES dogs. Then her is her reply to the posts on craiglist.

http://seattle.craig.../144993318.html

What is very interestiong is that on craigslist she claims she does not bred Mini but in private emails she states "I breed Mini BC's. There is such a thing......."

Selling them for $750 based on their size too....

Diane
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#19 Meg's mum

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 07:20 PM

I met a 'mini" Aussie at dog school. Creeped me out. It had a black tri coat, short tail wide body and stubby legs. It waddled to walk and seemed lethargic, but every Aussie I've ever personally known has been a little....quiet. It was an inch shorter than Meg so about 17".

Shudder.

#20 SoloRiver

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Posted 24 March 2006 - 10:05 PM

I've seen a "Toy Aussie." As far as I could tell, it was a docked Papillon.

I also recall seeing a docked Papillon on a rescue list a while back. It was nearly solid black tri, while Papillons are supposed to have little body color (they can have patches, but are supposed to be mainly white). I wondered if the docked Pap was intended to be a "Toy Aussie."
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