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Immodium safe for BC's?


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#1 Carson & Donna

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:30 PM

Is Immodium, to treat diarrhea, safe for BC's? I have in the past heard of giving dogs pepto bismol or kaopectate ( dogs in general not BC's in particular that is)but have never heard of them receiving Immodium. A quick google search did reveal that some give their dogs this OTC med, however, I want to make sure it is safe for BC's before I give any.

Does anyone have any information regarding this?

Thanks in advance

with kind regards

Carson and Donna

#2 MaggieDog

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:47 PM

This site looks helpful: http://www.peteducat...&articleid=1432

They say it's ok for dogs, but not cats.

I generally don't use drugs for diarrhea though - pumpkin seems to firm up stools quite well and I don't have to worry about toxicity or side effects.

#3 Anda

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 02:33 PM

I've given Pepto pills to Ouzo. It just helps with the symptoms, but it doesn't help cure it.
But if he's feeling realy bad, I'd rather give him something to ease his pain, then treat it. When he had giardia (twice, at least!), Pepto came in handy, until we got to the vet and got him on medication. Poor pup, he was suffering and making messes in the house every few minutes, for no fault of his own...

#4 urge to herd

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 02:50 PM

Immodium is safe for BC's, according to my vet. However, I'm cautious about using it unless I'm sure the dog is just having a simple case of the runs.

Buzz had several bouts with clostridia perfingens, which made him really sick with bloody diarrhea. I gave him Immodium for the 1st one, and it made him worse, because his body was trying to expell the poisons from the c. pergingens overgrowth. Slowing down his gut without something to take care of the bacteria wasn't a good thing.

So, Immodium works for Sammi's garbage gut that she gets, but Buzz doesn't get it for his c. perfingens episodes.

Just be sure of what you're treating.

Ruth n the BC3

#5 Carson & Donna

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 03:56 PM

Since I have posted this question, I have continued to browse the web for more information on this med...it looks like it may not be totally safe for BC's, or rather all BC's. Here is the first URL that has a story related to immodium in BC's ( pertinent info copied here:

Kaopectate used to be bad for dogs but ok for cats, and pepto is and always has been bad for cats. Vets issued a warning last July about kaopectate because they changed their formula to reduce the lead content, and it is now toxic to cats. Just so you know.... if a cat needs a pain killer acetomenophin (tylenol) is usually given in very small doses, because aspirin is toxic to cats. However, anything containing the same ingredient as tylenol (acetomenophin) is toxic to dogs, which is why aspirin is reccomended for dogs.
Kaopectate is now safe for dogs, but not as safe as pepto bismol. Immodium is fast becoming the drug of choice for pets and people, I don't know why for people, but for pets, it is because it does not contain salycitates.
Immodium works fast, slightly sedates a pet, and has really no other side effects. BUT , and this is a BIG BUT..... the medication in immodium, and also ivermectin, a wormer, CAN be dangerous to collies and any other breed related to them. Here is why...

Collies with ivermectin sensitivity have been found to have a mutant gene for what is called the "P-glycoprotein." The P-glycoprotein has been studied largely because overexpression of this protein (i.e., having more of it than normal) results poor function of chemotherapy drugs in the treatment of cancer. The P-glycoprotein appears to be involved in keeping drugs out of certain body tissues. Having excess P-glycoprotein keeps chemotherapy drugs from reaching the tumor; having a mutant/non-functional protein fails to keep medications like ivermectin out of the central nervous system. In other words, Collies (and their cousins: Old English Sheepdogs, Shetland Sheepdogs, Australian Shepherds, etc.) have less P-glycoprotein than normal. Having less P-glycoprotein means certain drugs gain access to protected body tissues more readily. This phenomenon is responsible not only for ivermectin toxicity in sensitive breeds but also loperamide toxicity. Approximately 35% of Collies appear affected by this condition. It is probably best to avoid loperamide in Collies and their relatives.

Loperamide is the drug in immodium. So.... even though I used Immodium for Dancer, and there was no problem, it cleared it up immediately, I won't use it again now that I know this. Live and learn I guess...

the URL for the above is:
http://www.oes.org/p...dog-wormer.html

thes second article I found relating to Immodium and BC's is written by a veterinary pharmacologist and can be found here:
http://washington-st...gsanddrugs.html

in part of the above article it states:
Even common over-the-counter drugs can be deadly. In clinical tests, normal collies that were given the standard dose of the anti-diarrhea medication Imodium? did fine. Collies with the mutation, however, began to stagger and become comatose. All the dogs in Mealey?s study recovered after being given an antidote, and were later adopted by area residents. Unfortunately, she says, many dogs nationwide were not so lucky. *end*

I am not absolutely 100% sure the cause of my BC's diarrhea, but I am pretty sure as this happened once before, same food item, same symptoms. Our dogs sometimes get after dinner "tidbits" off our dinner plates and the night before this started he was fed a small piece of steak that was marinaded in "dales" sauce ( a compilation of soy sauce and spices etc) He has a pretty sensitive stomach to begin with, so I feel that is the cause of this "bout" he is having. (side note, this marinade seems to have the same effect on my mother!)

If these articles are true, it would seem like a risk to give the immodium to a BC, however, and I wish I could know this for sure, if they do not have the "mutated gene", would it then be safe? Not knowing anything about this when we got our first BC and totally relying on our vet for what was right for him, he had been on Heartgard for the past 3 yrs (which the vet prescribed for him) It wasn't until this past month that I questioned whether or not it was dangerous, that they said " oh absolutely! and they switched him to Interceptor. (kind of makes for a wee bit of mistrust with my vet at the moment so I haven't posed this question to him yet about the immodium)

Sorry for the length of this post and thank you for helping me here.

with kind regards

Carson and Donna

#6 nancy

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Posted 21 September 2006 - 04:08 PM

My vet said that Imodium might stop the runs but it would not do anything about the cause of the runs. So it's not a real solution.

We give Fergie a tablespoon of canned pumpkin (not pie mix, just plain pumpkin) with each meal for 2 days when she has the runs (can you tell I can't spell the real term?). That's along with anything the vet gives or suggests. It's always worked.

Got the pumpkin info from this forum. Now, I buy a can and freeze it in the smallest supposedly throw-away plastic containers - 1/4 cup (4 Tbsp) at most.

#7 bc friend

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Posted 22 September 2006 - 05:47 AM

My vet has recommended using Immodium just to stop the runs until the "real" medicine takes effect or if it is just a minor bout of "garbage eating" but I have never given it w/o the dog seeing the vet first.

#8 SarahAnn

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Posted 23 September 2006 - 12:11 PM

We used Immodium in an emergency situation (severe diarrhea, weekend, Vet out of town) and our BC tolerated it well and was better in about 36 hours. We were 99% certain that the problem was his garbage gut; he found a dead squirrel in the yard. I'm going to stockpile some canned pumpkin for the next event.

#9 Rebecca, Irena Farm

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Posted 24 September 2006 - 02:39 PM

I'm not sure, but I THINK they've tested enough Border collies that they are pretty sure Border collies have missed that mutation. But if you want to be 100% sure (remember there is a whole class of drugs this includes, some of which are used in emergency situations like with ace and bute) - the DNA test is cheap and easy to do.
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