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Is there anything stronger than benadryl?


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#1 kaos

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:36 AM

my poor itchiy girl is really going out of her mind, her august itch as we call it came later this year (third week of Sept for full onset!) She is just mutilating herself while on 50mg of benadryl twice a day. ITs pretty safe to say that the benadryl, while it MUST be doing something to help somewhat, isn't doing enough! So heres the questionis there anything stronger that we can buy over the counter at our local drugstore or do I need to get a vets prescription? What are the choices for super atomic strength antihistamines for dogs, their side effects and any long term (2-3 months + use) considerations. We have an E- collar on her which has stopped her constant chewing but now she just itches with her back legs 24/7, she is destroying the backs of her forelegs broken right through the skin etc. Any advice?
Sara
ps: she is on Canidae, has flax oil added to her food and yoghurt aswell (to help her digestion, she once had a massive colon issue after her august itch due to the stress and the ridiculous amount of fur she was ingesting.

#2 Caroline

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 10:51 AM

The vet prescribed hydroxazine pamoate (sp? since the bottle is not in front of me) since Luke my allergic dog hadn't responded to the benadryl. You might ask about that. They said it is as safe as benadryl. It helped him a lot, we don't know the cause of his allergies yet, seems more contact or inhalation than food.
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#3 kaos

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 04:44 PM

Sams allergies are definitely seasonal, we assume it is or is similar to ragweed as it usually begins with the hayfever season. It doesn't end with the season though, she becomes manic and obsessive and can't seem to stop herself from itching, chewing, biting, scratching and mutilating herself. Last year wasn't as bad: she had some awful itching for a few weeks, but the benadryl definitely helped her over the hump. This year she is worse then ever, reminiscent of the few years before she was prescribed benadryl.
I think we will put in a call to the vet tomorow and see if perhaps we can get her a cortisone shot or somthing for some relief and maybe break the cycle of itch.... I don't know... I'll definitely be asking about the med you mentioned, hopefully the vet will agree.
I want to bathe her tomorow, her coat is so very greasy and her skin and ears are covered in dirt (dragging herself on the ground in order to itch difficult spots) but in the past bathing seemed to agravate the problem, so I don't want to use the doggy shampoos, what about baby shampoo.... would the ph be all wrong? perhaps it would be better just to give her a good rinse with plain old water and a nice gentle rub down afterward...
I hate to see her this way, she is so miserable, Can't wait for november or december when it all magically disappears.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or support.
Sara

#4 urge to herd

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 05:27 PM

If you can get to a farm supply store tomorrow, try to get some Orvus washing paste for horses. Use only a little bit, it goes a long way. No scent, nothing extra, just a sudsing thing, works great for sensitive skin.

Ruth

#5 urge to herd

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Posted 25 September 2004 - 06:37 PM

My first post disappeared - here goes again.

Try getting her off the flax oil, I know several dogs who don't tolerate it. Try fish oil + vit e.

Wellness makes a supplement for skin/coat that's really helped Shoshone, and I've heard some reports that quercitin, (get it at the health food store) can really help with the seasonal allergies.

Check w/the vet, see if she might not have a yeast infection, caused by the scratching, or a bacterial skin infection. Shonie got bathed with Maleseb, an antifungal shampoo that really helped. And the doggy dermatologist put her on cephalexin for a month, that helped a lot.

Good luck, I know how hard it is for you and her.

Ruth n the Border Trio

#6 lylol

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 05:02 AM

My GSD has a summer itch problem for which we try to find some creative solutions. Benedryl doesnt help him much. The only shampoo I have found that doesnt compound the problem is a coal tar based shampoo like T-gel. It can be expensive... (sometimes a place like COSTCO has it) but it really helps with the greasy skin/smell and seems to bring some relief for a week or two. You might want to get a small bottle and try it out. The following is ONLY an inconclusive observation so take it with a grain of salt... I started with Missing Link this summer for all my dogs, and it has been a lower itch summer for the GSD... its also been a cooler summer... so will have to see more over time. Good luck. Lysa

#7 kaos

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 12:03 PM

Thanks to every one for all the responses.

I have heard of Orvus's paste, but in reference to a laundry detergent for quilts... so thats pretty interesting.

I would love to use the fish oil supplements and have had it suggested many times, unfortunately I am anaphylactic to all fish and seafood so even a trace amount any where and I could have a severe if not deadly reaction. we just can't chance it. I will stop the flax oil and see if that helps at all, I have given it to her many other times through out the year and she has never had a similar reaction, although if her body is already stressed it may be contributing to the issue.

We just got back from a long day of errands to find she had managed to pry off her collar and has severely wounded her face and neck and her poor lips are three times their size from the constant scratching.

We usually have t-gel shampoo around (of course not now when we need it) so I will grab some and give it a whirl, going to bathe her now and see if I can give the poor wee beastie some relief.

Please keep the helpful ideas and comments coming, I would really appreciate any and all help
Sara

#8 Rebecca, Irena Farm

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:06 PM

Ben had terrible itching problems even on the best food. We used Derm caps which has borage, fish (won't work for you) and safflower. The safflower and borage will provide the combination of EFAs you need without the fish - you can find these at a natural food store. Ben's violently allergic to flax oil though he can tolerate whole meal for some reason.

You might try, at least while the itchy season lasts, preparing some home cooked meals or ordering some of the ready made whole raw diets. Sometimes grain like white rice can be problematic, even in the premium foods like Canidae - and Canidae has herrring in it I notice - not an issue for you?

The only kibble Ben does well on is California Natural. We're temporarily on Chicken Soup FTDLS because we're pretty much broke at the moment and I don't have a kitchen - and he is slightly itchy. He doesn't have any problem at all on my home prepared diet. He can even eat whole raw foods that bother him when they are processed in kibble - like beef, carrots, and salmon.

Your dog's difficulties are so serious that it might be worth looking into.

Good luck!
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#9 urge to herd

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 01:34 PM

I heard about the Orvus from a dog loving friend of mine who is also a quilter, she uses it on her dogs, antique quilts and fabrics, and anything delicate she's got to wash. I love the stuff!

Too bad about the fish oil - is there anyone else in the household who could give it to her? Our Allergy Angel, Dr. Nagel, said that the cephalexin, as well as dealing with the bacterial skin infection, also acted as an anti-inflammatory for the skin. This might be something worth looking into for your girl.

Give the quercetin a try, the dogs it worked for specifically were bothered w/seasonal allergies.

Ruth n the Border Trio

#10 kaos

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 02:39 PM

I used to sprinkle freshly ground flax seed on their meals, I can go back to doing that, I just thought that the oil might absorb better.

I was intially VERY concerned about the fish in the kibble (but all of the good ones around here contain it: some are sprayed on the outside of the kibble so I completely avoided those), and gave it a test drive of a week to see if I was in any danger, but I seem to be doing alright, aside from occasional hives if I actually touch the kibble or let the girls kiss me too soon after they eat. I am even more hesitant about the supplements, as they are only fish oils, and not trace amounts like the kibble and therefore harder to avoid and more potent and deadly.

I usually switch the girls to raw during the itchy season, as Sam tends to get some serious digestive issues once she's well and truly intrenched in her itching. I haven't been able to this year yet as we have a new baby, new job etc etc etc that are all demanding my time, I can barely get dinner on the table for my people family. Hopefully I can get a little more prepared and get them eating au-naturale.

We have a wonderful new vet who makes house-calls so I will be calling her tomorow and hopefully getting our poor beleagured girl some relief.

I just gave her a bath with mild shampoo, took alot of extra time rinsing to be sure we got every last vestige of soap off. she is still itching like mad but at least she is clean now and doesn't have the greasy film every where, the vet will be able to touch her now!
I will be hitting the farm supply store orvus paste for both my puppies and my quilts, Thanks for the great tip.
Sara

#11 Olivia

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Posted 26 September 2004 - 03:24 PM

Temeril P is a pretty strong anti itch medicine with prednisome in it. Helps to break the itch cycle and calm the skin down. A round of Cephalexin might be in order too as that kind of itching is just begging for a secondary bacterial infection.

My dog also itches from allergies. The e-collars didnt work. I purchased a greyhound racing muzzle and stool guard for the end which he wears in his crate. He can pant and drink with it on, he just can't lick. Works soooo much better than the e-collar! Griffin is much happier with it as well. Just a thought. Hope it clears up soon enough that you wont need it.

Olivia

#12 juliepoudrier

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 04:19 AM

I don't know if it's the same as what Caroline mentioned, but there is a prescription product called Atarax that works well. I have used it on two different occasions myself when I've had allergic reactions (once to amoxicillin--hives, swollen face, etc.). My housemate got it for his allergic dog and it seemed to help some.

I have also used Temaril-P on one of my dogs who seems to have inhalation allergies (normally controlled with theophylline). I use the Temaril-P when he gets itchy on his front legs and starts to chew. Interestingly, my vet suggested Temaril-p as a way to see if the leg chewing was behavioral (this is my OCD dog) or if the itching was real. Since the prednisone in the Temaril-p controlled the itching, he stopped chewing. So he stays on theophylline and goes onto Temaril-p when he starts the leg chewing.

Tar based shampoos are good for dogs who get infections (and that yeasty smell) from scratching. A round of antibiotics might also be called for is she has managed to scratch herself into infections.

J.

Edit: Duh. I checked my Merck index. Atarax is the dihydrochloride of hydroxyzine (so not the same as what Caroline mentioned).

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#13 Caroline

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 06:55 AM

Interestingly enough I can't find the pamoate version of Hydroxyzine in my Merck. I might not be remembering a different name for pamoate though. hhmm.
Caroline

#14 juliepoudrier

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 07:55 AM

Caroline,
Just goes to show how closely I read (and actually *re-read*) your post--I didn't even pick up on the hydroxyzine.... Man, I better get my act together. We probably are talking about the same thing.

J.

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#15 kaos

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 08:56 AM

hello all
Our wonderful vet has just been and gone, she agrees that Sammy is a truly pathetic sight. We are heavy dosing her with prednisone twice a day for 2-3 days, then halving the dose for 2-3 more days then just straihgt benadryl to see if we can break her itch cycle.... if it doesn't work she goes to injections....

Please cross your fingers for her, she really needs the rest both physical and mental
Sara

#16 2 Devils

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 12:55 PM

Hydroxyzine Pamoate is the correct term. It is the cheaper version of hydroxyzine. I found the pamoate does not work as well as the hydroxyzine. There is more than a $100 difference in price for the 2. I had to switch back to hydroxyzine. I have also used the Temaril P and it works well.

If your dog has such itchy problems you really should look at getting a prescription.

Kim
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#17 kaos

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Posted 27 September 2004 - 03:32 PM

Last year the benadryl seemed to keep it all at bay and it was the first time we had been able to be proactive and start the antihistamine before the itch began and not having to play catch up once she was already in a bad state. We assumed that the benadryl was our knight in shining armour... never occurred to us that it might just have been a really light season for her.
We are wondering if she may have just built up a tolerance to it and it no longer works for her any more.. if that is even possible.

our vet seems to think that if we can just break the cycle of itch and get her some relief then the benadryl might have a chance to work, we are trying this therapy for a week if it doesn't work or she still seems to be escalating and the itching hasn't lessened, she will be receiving steroid shots.... I will then discuss a permanent prescription that we can fill any time and dose her with.
On a brighter note, she said the wounds look nice and clean and dry and that there doesn't seem to be any sign of infection, so theres a load off our minds, we are mighty glad about that.
On a less happy note her poor neck which was already some what droopy is just hanging off of her now from the repeated and constant scratching with her hindlegs. Her waddle (any one else remember Ally Macbeal?) is almost completely hairless. Will it return to normal... or has she done herself some permanent damage?
I'm really hoping the prednisone gives her some relief, I don't think she had any rest last night. I will be sure to post and let you all know how she is doing and thank you so very much all your help and suggestions, they were a real comfort to me. Even if I couldn't do any thing to help her, atleast could be proactive and know some things.... :rolleyes:
Thanks again
Sara

#18 flyboytim

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 01:47 PM

Both our BCs have been hypersensitive in late summer. However, we know the cause - cat fleas. Other fleas also have population explosions in late summer, bird and rodent fleas in particular.

These may bite or irritate your dog, without breeding, or surviving very long on them, but the irritation can annoy the dog for weeks. The dog is it's own worst enemy under these circumstances, with obsessive licking, scratching and nibbling causing sore patches on the skin, which may get infected.

One flea can cause about two weeks of misery.

We take flea precautions - Frontline on all the animals, Acclaim on furnishings and carpets, but they still make an appearance late summer.

To catch a flea on a BC is not difficult - as long as the dog has white bits! An itchy dog usually will respond favourably to brushing on the neck and back, avoiding any sore areas, of course, and looking for any dark moving bits, particularly on the belly where the hair is sparse. Here it is possible to catch the flea between thumb and forefinger, and take them off the dog.

The best way to get rid of them is to drop them into a glass of water, leaving the insect there for at least 24 hours before throwing it away. Make sure the flea sinks to the bottom, it will kick a couple of times and then hold it's breath for several hours before dying.

You can also get a vet to identify the dead flea for you to discover the source, which may help you to avoid future problems.

#19 flyboytim

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Posted 29 September 2004 - 02:05 PM

Correction:

Not (drop them into a glass of water) but "release the flea in a glass of water below the water surface, making sure it sinks"


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