Jump to content


Photo

The Darinka story.


  • Please log in to reply
63 replies to this topic

#21 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:19 AM

Here Darinka's outrun.

 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#22 Smalahundur

Smalahundur

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iceland

Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:23 AM

That is a nice outrun. Like her calm demeanour.

"Milli manns og hests og hunds hangir leyniþráður"


#23 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:54 AM

Thank you  :D  .  Her drive is getting better and we are venturing into introduction to shedding. She has a nice natural pace. 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#24 Pippin's person

Pippin's person

    Seeking more time and patience

  • Registered Users
  • 1,554 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:35 PM

She has nice square flanks. 


Robin: One of the two people
Renzo: First dog, resident non-BC
Pippin, Rafe, Kyzer, Lad, Zac, and Scout: the BC crew
Fox, Lars, Milo, Xeno, Callie, and Barn Kitty: Kitties
Rest in Peace:  Theka, Macchi, Ness, Fritz, Inji and Tansy

#25 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:05 AM

Thank you :)  , as you can hear in the video, throughout I only said the initial "away", nothing else. She self-corrected the outrun in the beginning, and on the outrun closer to the top she also slightly self-corrected, then lift and beginning of fetch - all by herself. I never taught her any of this.  Not that I didn't try :ph34r:  .


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#26 Maxi

Maxi

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 513 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:sheep, dogs, wildlife

Posted 08 November 2014 - 05:27 AM

Maya, her outrun is nice and it's great that she did so much without any command from you

.. but sorry to ask, did she lift all her sheep?...when I watched your video there seems to be one ewe who exits out the side of the frame and I wasn't certain whether Darinka adjusted her position or used her eye to tuck it back in with the rest.

#27 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 08 November 2014 - 08:22 AM

Yes, she lifted and then brought the whole flock.   Ouessants don't flock very well, so Darinka went to my right to tuck some in and to turn them because they were drifting in that direction, and then  turned slightly to the left, specifically to that ewe, and that ewe reappears in the frame.  These sheep are very difficult for a dog, and I try to train on the lighter ones as much as possible.


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#28 Maxi

Maxi

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 513 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:sheep, dogs, wildlife

Posted 08 November 2014 - 08:24 AM

Yes, she lifted and then brought the whole flock.   Ouessants don't flock very well, so Darinka went to my right to tuck some in and to turn them because they were drifting in that direction, and then  turned slightly to the left, specifically to that ewe, and that ewe reappears in the frame.  These sheep are very difficult for a dog, and I try to train on the lighter ones as much as possible.


Brilliant.

#29 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 24 May 2015 - 03:54 AM

Some progress report.

 

Virgil Holland wrote about excessively pressure sensitive dogs  that for them every action requires an overreaction. Such a dog "is typically difficult to stop, or if stopped, will seldom stay stopped for more than a few seconds."   Very true for Darinka, and for her - when the pressure requires that she does stop -  it is equally difficult to make her move. According to Holland, this dog "is so attuned to pressure . . . that he can't stop himself from reacting, and feels he would die without reacting to it!"   Yep, that’s Darinka, alright. She would indeed die a thousand deaths. Now she  often works in a calm and collected manner a casual onlooker might be fooled by and say I am making things up. 

 

Vergil Holland also says, "This may be one of the hardest types with which you will ever work, because  this dog feels like his reactions are part of a life-or-death situation." Indeed.  Now, this is important, because some types of dogs are in his opinion not worth working with, whereas this one is. 

 

So yesterday, we put 20 sheep into a small pen. This was a success, because normally Darinka feels she would die (a thousand deaths) if she weren't somewhere where it would make it impossible for the sheep to go into the pen.  And yet yesterday,  thinking she had the choice to overreact or die, she decided on the latter.   (True, she didn’t do the off- balance flank I asked her to do, to tweak the pen entry of the sheep subtly), but if  death is what she felt was happening to her,  then the lie down she did instead seems like a reasonable (in)action.)

 

Because Darinka also wants to do what is right.  And it was right to listen to me, and it was right to respond to pressure from the flock.  And it was wrong to ignore the pressure and it would have been wrong to ignore me.  Think how it would make you feel if all the choices were between two rights, between  two wrongs,  between two imperatives.

 

I am only beginning to understand what is going on inside this dog when she has a choice of two rights or two wrongs.   I saw these being in constant conflict early, I saw how it builds tension inside her,  but knowing this did not make it much easier. At my wits’ end – this is  where I have been most of the time.  

 

Because with a dog like this, not enough pressure from me produces no response at all, while too much from me produces produces tension, freezing and/or zoomies - the opposite of what I try to achieve. The in-between, where I am positive enough to make her react to me and where she is not stressed out yet by too much pressure from me,  is a very, very thin line, it’s so thin I question sometimes – is it there?   Then she looks at me and I know, it is there and she is asking me to find it, and she is willing to meet  me, not half way maybe but perhaps making a few steps in my direction that cost her more than it would cost some dogs to go a mile. 

 

I do not trust myself, after all I  may be making some serious mistakes, so I took her to a good trainer this spring, and basically got instructed  to continue walking that thin line between too much and not enough.  Fiddler on the Roof comes to mind ("trying to scratch out a pleasant, simple tune without breaking his neck. It isn't easy.") , but that’s ok;  fiddler on the roof is fine, as long as I know I am supposed to be up there and not down in the pub.

 

So very slowly, but we are progressing. When Darinka is not tense she often shows sparks of brilliance – beautiful natural outruns, cautious approach on the lift, nice relaxed fetch. And by golly she can read her sheep.

 

Darinka has done something for me - she has sharpened my dog sense, she has helped me  understand what is going on inside a sheep dog – and this is my goal, to actually know sheep dogs.

 

10999264_10205047443043612_6036804245440


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#30 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 26 May 2015 - 09:15 AM

I just....

 

I just don't know what to say. 

 

Today, we were taking the sheep out to the pasture, and Darinka was supposed to drive them, which you can imagine what is like with a dog like her   -  I keep her behind the sheep basically, but it's not driving as an intentional action of the dog. It's just keeping the dog from heading the sheep, while the dog does not intend to drive the sheep.

 

So today, I told her to walk and after a while I thought there was something strange going on - I listened, and I realized - there I was - saying nothing at all!

 

Because Darinka was driving - she was carrying out the task of driving, tucking the sheep here and there and pushing them forward as though she'd been doing it all her life. 

 

I was happy to pieces. 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#31 Ludi

Ludi

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 133 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Westward, Cumbria
  • Interests:Shepherding and farming

Posted 26 May 2015 - 09:58 AM

Oh how wonderful! :)



#32 Smalahundur

Smalahundur

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iceland

Posted 26 May 2015 - 04:06 PM

Great!


"Milli manns og hests og hunds hangir leyniþráður"


#33 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:39 AM

Yes, this was very unexpected, since I was used to counting my nano-successes and be satisfied with that. But having noticed that she reacts better when we are on the drive position than when I am in fort of her - in spite of her heading desire - I changed the handling somewhat in the last 3-4 training sessions, and it seems to work. 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#34 Maxi

Maxi

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 513 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:sheep, dogs, wildlife

Posted 27 May 2015 - 02:44 AM

Brilliant...well done to you both.

#35 Smalahundur

Smalahundur

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,831 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Iceland

Posted 27 May 2015 - 01:04 PM

By the way, how old is Darinka now?


"Milli manns og hests og hunds hangir leyniþráður"


#36 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 28 May 2015 - 01:01 AM

She will be 2.5 years old on June 10.

 

(Nice quotation :)


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#37 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 29 May 2015 - 07:29 AM

I wanted to show you a movie with Darinka's driving that impressed me so much, but now there is the killer-ewe in the flock with her little one, so Darinka's work is a bit different. Nonetheless here it is, from this morning boring chores:

 

 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#38 GentleLake

GentleLake

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 5,619 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 29 May 2015 - 02:09 PM

It's so rewarding when everything falls into place.

 

Nice work, both of you.


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle


#39 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 30 May 2015 - 02:54 AM

Thank you!

My DH has a habit  of asking me how it went after every training, and before the unexpected change happened, for more than two weeks I would reply:

 

- It went fine; I did very well.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

;)  ;) 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23


#40 Maja

Maja

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 1,996 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Poland

Posted 20 June 2015 - 02:40 AM

We are continuing on our journey of small steps.  Here is an outrun where the sheep come to me quickly and yet Darinka does not bolt to block and circle around them like ninja that ODed caffeine. We also manage clumsily, but manage the turnaround. 

 

And there is also the going through a gate - another mission impossible nonetheless accomplished without Darinka freaking out and dashing forward.

 


"Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds" - Prov. 27-23



0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright: All posts and images on this site are protected by copyright, and may not be reproduced or distributed in any way without permission. Banner photo courtesy of Denise Wall, 2009 CDWall. For further information, contact info@bordercollie.org.