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#1 MayaAlberta

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 07:17 PM

I have a ten year old male border collie who I would like to breed before he is too old, and I need advice on how to go about this.

He grew up working on a family member's sheep ranch in west county Sonoma, and originally came from a breeder in Mendocino. My family that trained and worked him believe that he is one of the smartest and best working dogs that they have ever known; he also happens to be extraordinarily handsome and well-mannered. He is truly an exceptional dog and my family has encouraged me to carry on his lineage.

The problem is that I don't have his papers. I have spent the last couple of years looking for a border collie bitch owner interested in hosting a litter -- however because I don't have his papers this has proven very difficult. I've also brought him in to attempt semen freezing, but this has not been fruitful because I've not had access to an appropriate teaser bitch. I am not in a position to purchase a bitch and carry out the breeding on my own, and so am left with the need to find someone else interested in hosting the litter.

Is there an appropriate place to reach out to breeders or border collie owners in this capacity? Please help!

#2 Liz P

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:36 PM

http://www.americanb...lie.org/ROM.htm

I would start with getting him ROMed.

Check his hips (Cornell, OFA, PennHIP). Get a DNA sample to Optigen for CEA testing. A BAER test is also a good idea since hearing loss is a problem in the breed.

Generally, stud owners don't seek bitches. It is much more normal for the owner of a bitch to approach the stud owner after seeing the stud work.

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#3 red russel

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:52 PM

Getting him ROM'ed at 10 years old seems unlikely.

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#4 Liz P

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 09:58 PM

Why, if he can meet the requirements? Plenty of 10 year old dogs are still working.

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#5 Cynthia P

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:20 PM

Speak with you local club. Look for stock dog associations and someone there may be able to mentor for you. The health checks are a very very very good idea.

And it is difficult when you own a stud you want bred, and you don't trial or currently work him, to find a suitable working mate. Most people I know locally would want to see him work

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#6 red russel

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Posted 11 February 2013 - 10:55 PM

Yes. Completely true. Plenty of 10 year old dogs still working. The requirements for a ROM, however, are pretty demanding. Not a lot of dogs earn a ROM let alone a 10 year old in the evening of a working career.

and... I don't know crap about breeding but would you regularly breed a 10 year old dog?

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#7 Liz P

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:01 AM

To me a 10 year old dog is a more desirable stud because...

I can look at his adult offspring and see what he produces as far as working ability, health, temperament and structure.

I can see if he breeds true when matched with a variety of bitches.

I know he has longevity as a working dog if he is still putting in a hard days work.

I can evaluate his health and identify genetic diseases that may take longer than 2 years to show up, like epilepsy, adult onset hearing loss, spondylosis, cancer etc. This would be both in the stud himself as well as in his offspring.

Would I breed a 10 year old regularly if I owned one? Well, define regularly. If he was a fantastic representative of the breed (top notch working dog), I would allow him to be bred to a couple of nice working bitches a year. I personally get worried for the genetic diversity of the breed when a stud dog is used on several bitches a month.

More important, we are answering questions for someone who has no experience breeding dogs. The OP needs a clearly defined standard to understand whether her male should be bred at all.

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#8 Debbie Meier

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 09:21 AM

As far as answering the advice question, the only way I could see having the best chance at mating this particular male to a equal or better quality bitch to him, assuming that he is better then the average ranch dog, would be for the op or a family member that wants to see the line continue to purchase a proven bitch.

At his age it's about to late to mess around with raising female pups specifically to use to breed to him, to big of a risk that they would not be suited for him from a working style and ability standpoint and I don't see any point in just throwing two dogs together just to have puppies and then trying to kid yourself that you just preserved a valuable line when not a single pup produced may be worthy of breeding being of lessor quality then the line they are suppose to represent.

With that said, without papers and documentation of the dogs liniage there really is no "line" to preserve. If there is documentation, even if just hand written notes one should be able to determine if there are dogs of the same breeding still being used, if they are equal or greater quality as him and if indeed this is a life or death for a line type breeding.

If it is, then search high and low for the best bitch you can buy and pray that a great pup is produced.

Which leads to another question, if the OP can't take on a bitch at this time, what will be the fate of these pups?

If it was I, and the breeding was the last ditch effort to preserve what once was, I would be making certain that every pup stayed under my control so that I ended up with the best ones. If I could not do that then there would be little reason to go through all the time and effort of finding a bitch for the male.

It's pretty darn disappointing to have a litter, select a pair from that litter and discover 4-5 years later that the ones you sold were the ones that represented the preservation of the line but the people who you sold them to altered them. Not their fault, they did what was best for them, they were their dogs.

I will say that if a person came to me with such a request I would need to see the male work and he would have to be better then the males that we have and show me that it would be worth me taking a chance representing his pups and owning his pups, because ultimately as bitch owner I feel that I would be responsible for them regardless of whether or not the bitch was on lease or not.
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#9 Gloria Atwater

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 01:06 AM

MayaAlberta, I honestly don't know how much luck you'll have. If your dog is an unknown and has no proven lineage, it will probably be pretty darned tough to find someone with a real quality bitch willing to help you out.

Your best bet would be in finding people who know you and your dog, who have seen his work and appreciate his quality, and who also have a bitch that would compliment your dog's strengths and weaknesses that might be available for breeding.

Otherwise, though, without people who know your dog and have seen him work, I suspect it will be pretty tough. I'd be unwilling to buy a pup by an unknown stud unless I'd seen him and really thought he was something special.

Also, unless you've had his hips OFA'd "good" and his eyes CEA-tested "Normal," people are probably going to be really wary of breeding to him.

Best of luck,

GLoria




I have a ten year old male border collie who I would like to breed before he is too old, and I need advice on how to go about this.

He grew up working on a family member's sheep ranch in west county Sonoma, and originally came from a breeder in Mendocino. My family that trained and worked him believe that he is one of the smartest and best working dogs that they have ever known; he also happens to be extraordinarily handsome and well-mannered. He is truly an exceptional dog and my family has encouraged me to carry on his lineage.

The problem is that I don't have his papers. I have spent the last couple of years looking for a border collie bitch owner interested in hosting a litter -- however because I don't have his papers this has proven very difficult. I've also brought him in to attempt semen freezing, but this has not been fruitful because I've not had access to an appropriate teaser bitch. I am not in a position to purchase a bitch and carry out the breeding on my own, and so am left with the need to find someone else interested in hosting the litter.

Is there an appropriate place to reach out to breeders or border collie owners in this capacity? Please help!


You ask of my companions. Hills, sir, and the sundown, and a dog as large as myself that my father bought me. They are better than human beings, because they know but do not tell. ~ Emily Dickinson

To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing was not boring - it was peace. ~ Milan Kundera

#10 Eileen Stein

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Posted 13 February 2013 - 10:29 AM

What does, "I don't have his papers" mean? Does it mean that he has registration papers but you don't have access to them, or does it mean that he is unregistered?


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