34 replies to this topic

[Bigbluefrog3]

My Josie sometimes “resource guards” me. (FWIW, I refer to it as human possessiveness.) For Josie, it’s always with another dog; never a person. It might not work for others but what works for us is when she growls and snaps at another dog for coming up to me, I tell her “Aht! Mine!” and I step in front of her. She backs off and accepts the dog getting petted from me. I know it might sound weird but teaching my dogs what “Mine” means has come in handy in other areas too.

My friend does the same thing with her dog too. I believe she got it out of a book from the Dog whisper, understanding the pack behavior and she has been very successful with her training.


Just like raising children we are are going to see different training styles.

With the chicken bone I think its important to get it away fast, not search for a special treat, because then she thinks stealing trash is good and then she gets a better treat.

Oh thanks to whoever said give a better treat when resource guarding with water dish, I tried that with my cats. They got string cheese and instead of Molly going after the cat's treat I gave her a better treat. Told her to leave the cats, when she made eye contact - she got her treat.

So the better treat has good value, and I thank you for the tip

[Bigbluefrog3]

The point is not, not ever take food away, but training for the moment you actually have to.

Let's say you train this by taking the food from the dog and then giving it back, sure the dog may eventually be comfortable about it but what is he getting in return? Nothing. I kinda feel like that is dominating the dog a little (my opinion). If you train this by gradually taking away his food what happens when its something better (chicken bone) he may not want to give it up and may snap, growl or not give up the potentially harmful thing. He gets nothing for giving his food away, except the chance to eat what he already had?? I dont see how this progresses further.

Now if you train it by trading his kibble for let's say anything better, (piece of steak, fav treats) take kibble--give treat--get kibble back, that sounds like a much better bargain and one a dog might be more apt to follow trough on. He'll be happy to give up whatever he's eating (as long as you progress to other giving up other better stuff aside from kibble) instead of begrudging you. Because who knows what yummier things you may have waiting.

I do understand what your saying , so if you take your dog's food you swap for a better and then give it back.

What I do is ask Molly to sit, then when she is sitting I place her food down, then she looks at me and I give her an okay and she then eats, or she leaves it. I don't take her food away, just toys or bones- sometimes I get that you have a bone to chew and get stuck in one thought.

btw MOlly is Amazing, last night she alerted me to my young daughter's low blood sugar of 40 and when that happens she gets jackpot of treats.

She such a blessing to us, of course we love her. Again thanks for insight on your training tips, I know we may not all agree, but hearing how one BC owner trains can give us options if our method is not working...please remember that - be kind.

[ChantalB]

Yup I see the point of the exercise to be that once trained whenever you ask the dog to "leave it" he does so promptly because he's been trained that sometimes drop iteans better things await! So when the dog has a garbage chicken bone treat, he shouldn't think twice about dropping it because, man, who knows what may come next.

The garbage diving is a separate thing that will have to be trained. IMO, in the event that the dog did dumpster dive, an you successfully got him to drop the chicken bone I would praise the bone dropping and reward it and ignore the garbage picking for that moment in time. That way they aren't being scolded for dropping something yummy (or a reward/giant praise withheld, scolding by omission). Redirect your dog after from the garbage, and maybe 5 minutes later proceed to do some garbage "no touch" training, to reinforce that not touching the yummy garbage bag is awesome.

[ChantalB]

And wow! What a good service dog ( even if she isn't theoretically) amazing skill!

[OurBoys]

My friend does the same thing with her dog too. I believe she got it out of a book from the Dog whisper, understanding the pack behavior and she has been very successful with her training.

That's a Dog Whisperer technique? Shoot, and all this time I thought we were original.

[Root Beer]

She tends to be aggressive with food around other dogs too. At a play date she wouldn't allow the other dog to drink water.

She also tends to be a bit bossy with other dogs more submissive than her.

What would you do for the play date and water issue? I usually grab her leash or collar and hold her back and allow the water dish to be shared.

First, I would provide her with her own water and give it to her away from the other dogs.

Sharing water with dogs in a context such as this is not one that I personally consider a ditch to die in.

I would teach her that seeing the other dogs go for the communal water is a cue to head to another area for her own water. That should be a pretty easy structure to establish. If it is not, then groundwork needs to be done away from that context.

Once she knew that she was going to get her own water in her own area, I would expect to see any hypervigilance toward other dogs drinking start to diminish. If I didn't, then I would look more closely at the dynamic in that setting to decide if it is really one that I want to expose my dog to on a regular basis.

As far as playing too strongly with softer dogs on play dates, I would probably ask those who gather for the play dates to set up a time to play with the dogs with whom my dog plays well and appropriately, and omit the softer dogs from those play sessions. Perhaps integrate some of the softer dogs back in later after my dog has had a chance to establish a rapport with some of the other stronger dogs, depending on whether or not that would really be necessary/appropriate.

Regarding growling at the vet, or any other person, I consider that clear communication on the part of the dog, indicating clearly that the dog is uncomfortable. I would approach that by implementing some desensitization/counter conditioning to create a higher level of comfort in those situations. The vet may never be a person that some dogs love to encounter, but I would build toward a level of trust and acceptance of the situation.

I have done this. Speedy had to be muzzled at the vet when he was younger. Now I can send him to the back with the techs for bloodwork and I don't have to worry in the least (unmuzzled). This happened by building trust.

Some resources you might want to check out: "Plenty in Life is Free" by Kathy Sdao (very inexpensive); "For the Love of a Dog" by Patricia McConnell (much bigger book, but well worth the time); "Reaching the Animal Mind" by Karen Pryor. None of these are actually dog training books per se, but I believe that any and all of them would help you have a better handle on what is likely happening here and give you some big-picture options on how to approach it.

Also, "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. This book has the absolute best protocol I've come across for dealing with resource guarding, such as what you describe with the water, etc., and would also address the issues that you describe with the play dates, and also the vet. In fact, this might be an excellent place to start, as it would touch on all of the questions that you asked.

I wish you the best with Molly.

[mum24dog]

My friend does the same thing with her dog too. I believe she got it out of a book from the Dog whisper, understanding the pack behavior and she has been very successful with her training.

Unfortunately the "Dog Whisperer" doesn't fully understand what he claims is "pack behaviour" himself.

Click on this and other links at the side for a brief run down -

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php

That's not to say that everything he says is wrong or bad - noone is wrong 100% of the time - but many of his self taught ideas are the sort of thing that used to be believed and practised decades ago but have been dropped by many trainers and behaviourists as knowledge has increased.

A good book on dogs is "Dogs" by Raymond and Lorna Coppinger. It's not a training book but does give an insight on how dogs came to be the way they are.

[mum24dog]

Actually, they do. Left to their own devices they would find food as a pack, take walk abouts as a pack, etc. and there would be a dog who is "in charge". That dog would make the decisions about where they walk about, where they scavenge, etc.

Actually no, they don't.

Left to their own devices dogs don't form packs. Check out the links I posted above, and do have a look at the book I recommended which describes actually studies of feral dogs.

Dogs are opportunist scavengers and will follow any dog that has found a food source, regardless of the supposed status of that dog within the group that is hanging out together at the time.

[rushdoggie]

Lately we have noticed a new behavior emerging, growling at the Vet and assistant. I tried to tell the office she is friendly and she tends to growl until you get closer than she will sit at your feet and let you pet her. I don't get this odd behavior, she lunges when we walk past people barking madly. Then if I go toward the person she will just love them to death but her signals are sending a message I will bite you instead of love you.

This is a very common fearful reaction of a dog who is conflicted about how to meet people and barks and growls hoping they will go away so she won't have to deal with it. So far, if when they get closer she decides they are OK and is friendly means you are very lucky. Its not unusual for this behavior to escalate into nipping at the person as they approach.

She needs to learn to wait and look to you for a cue, and be allowed to sniff towards them and return to you, rewarded for a quiet thoughtful investigation and not aggressing, and that she should take her cue from you. She can also learn that she is not required to interact with strangers by sometimes the stranger walking away.

This actually takes some practice, and it would be useful for you to work with someone who has practiced it, if that feasible. I would bet someone on this board might know a trainer in your area they would recommend to you.

[Bigbluefrog3]

This is a very common fearful reaction of a dog who is conflicted about how to meet people and barks and growls hoping they will go away so she won't have to deal with it. So far, if when they get closer she decides they are OK and is friendly means you are very lucky. Its not unusual for this behavior to escalate into nipping at the person as they approach.

She needs to learn to wait and look to you for a cue, and be allowed to sniff towards them and return to you, rewarded for a quiet thoughtful investigation and not aggressing, and that she should take her cue from you. She can also learn that she is not required to interact with strangers by sometimes the stranger walking away.

This actually takes some practice, and it would be useful for you to work with someone who has practiced it, if that feasible. I would bet someone on this board might know a trainer in your area they would recommend to you.

Thank for sharing that! It must be a fearful reaction. The first visit to the vet was for being spayed and she growled until the lady sat down and then Molly sat at the assistants feet and was sweet. I may have been a bit apprehensive as this was her apt to be fixed. Second visit went better. I brought treats- when she calmly looked at the vet or assistant she got a treat. No growling, so I think the growling could of been her sensing my apprehension at the last apt.


Thanks for the book suggestions to previous poster- I was thinking of getting some good books too. Molly is still just a pup, but she is learning quickly and when I send clear messages she learns and we are all happy.

[Bigbluefrog3]

First, I would provide her with her own water and give it to her away from the other dogs.

Sharing water with dogs in a context such as this is not one that I personally consider a ditch to die in.

I would teach her that seeing the other dogs go for the communal water is a cue to head to another area for her own water.

Regarding growling at the vet, or any other person, I consider that clear communication on the part of the dog, indicating clearly that the dog is uncomfortable.

Some resources you might want to check out: "Plenty in Life is Free" by Kathy Sdao (very inexpensive); "For the Love of a Dog" by Patricia McConnell (much bigger book, but well worth the time); "Reaching the Animal Mind" by Karen Pryor. None of these are actually dog training books per se, but I believe that any and all of them would help you have a better handle on what is likely happening here and give you some big-picture options on how to approach it.

Also, "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. This book has the absolute best protocol I've come across for dealing with resource guarding, such as what you describe with the water, etc., and would also address the issues that you describe with the play dates, and also the vet. In fact, this might be an excellent place to start, as it would touch on all of the questions that you asked.

I wish you the best with Molly.

Thanks! Molly is doing well. I haven't attempted the water dish recently, but like your ideas. The dog she growled at was a new dog a blue hound tick mix and owner stated she was a bit aggressive with water too ..odd?!

The click to calm soulnds intriguing- except I am not a big fan of clickers- I get chronic migraines and that clicker is just LOUD to me. but I like seeing how some are using it with great success- maybe a soft clicker out there?

I am going to address a new topic of leash lunging and hackles...lol I know we will get a wild assortment of tips- love it !

[mum24dog]

maybe a soft clicker out there?

Here

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=11116

[Bigbluefrog3]

Here

http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=11116

Thanks for the link! I see they have backpacks for dogs too...I been thinking of getting one for our hikes. Great prices too!! Bonus!

[SS Cressa]

Thanks for sharing that link about dogs and wolves that was really interesting.

[Root Beer]

The click to calm soulnds intriguing- except I am not a big fan of clickers- I get chronic migraines and that clicker is just LOUD to me. but I like seeing how some are using it with great success- maybe a soft clicker out there?

Yes. There is a clicker called the i-click which is significantly softer than the traditional box clicker.

Also, if even that is not soft enough, you can click your tongue instead. I have done that to get dogs who are bothered by the click at first started, and I use that when I am in a situation where I want to do some behavior modification but am in a situation where a clicker would not be appropriate (such as the sidelines at a trial).

There is value to the click itself in behavior modification that I personally would not choose to do without, but if necessity dictates that it cannot be used, a tongue click can suffice well enough.