17 replies to this topic

[Inez]

This is my first post. I have 4 border collies that bark so much. At night and day time if they see me out side. I correct them but with all of the other barking from neighbor dogs and we have Great Pyrenees that bark due to all the coyote. The borders bark is so much sharper and close to the house. When the coyote howl it is wild. They are in a semi open kennel. How do others handle this problem. I am going to try to close there kennel up but they will still be able to hear. When they are in the house they do not bark at the other dogs plus they are with me. We don't have a barking law in our area. There coondogs baying you name it. Am I asking to much of them? They do not bark when working.

[waffles]

What is a normal day for your dogs? You say they work, do they do so every day? Most of the time excessive barking is an outcome (that is why correcting alone typically does not work) of something else such as lack of exercise, lack of mental stimulation or sometimes too much stimulation. Take a look around at your dogs daily activities and see if there is anything that can be changed to make them not bark so much. A tired dog typically will not bark on end all the time. Are they barking because they are stressed, can you teach them to be calm at certain times? Is there a reason they are in a kennel while you are out? Does it seem like they are barking to be with you?

[frisbeegirl]

I have a 13 year old chocolate lab and an 8 month old bc. When the weather gets warmer the coyotes come a little too close for comfort. We tried to stop the lab from barking and realized it would pass when the coyotes moved on. Neighbors learned that barking was a good thing. Maybe this too will pass.

[Inez]

Thanks for helping me to think. Yes they want to be with me, but I might be mowing grass or ect. Most of the time when I am out they are with me. I have a 4' high panel around there kennel but not on the doors and they can pop up and see me. We also have a lot of activity that goes on chickens, guinea hens, cats, ect They are fine with these when they are out, but maybe in the kennel they stimulate them to much. They can also see anyone that comes in the driveway. Also we have a lot of people that ride 4 wheeler's up the road that our guard dogs bark at and get them started. They don't bark constantly they will take a correction but it may not last if the stimulation is still there. I can raise the panels up another 2 feet and cover the doors, but have hated to do that. They also can see me working/training just one of the dogs and go nuts over that. The night thing is the worst and I don't know if anything will help that. We have a lot of coyote and a pond close to our property they visit. Guard dog's a great job of keeping things safe and they have to bark. Other than making a sound proof building for night that might be the only answer.
They don't work constantly, but are out everyday a lot. We are a small farm with only 50 ewes some hogs and 4 calves. They are going to be doing more jobs since we have gotten the calves.
Thanks for the imput.

[Bill Orr]

How do you correct them when they do other things you don't like? If it works, do that. If it doesn't, for each dog find it's motivation to be obedient.

Be consistent and persistent. Dogs in a kennel don't have to bark all the time. Give the youngsters a chance, but expect them to make progress as the learn. What you permit, you teach.

Good luck.

[Star]

I am no expert on this, but wanted to share my experience with Star and Seven. Seven (hound mix) only barks when it's relevant--there are people walking behind the property, she hears something unusual, someone comes to the door. I let her do it--I want her to bark at appropriate times. When we first got Star, I thought she would never bark. She didn't bark at anything, just ran along with Seven. Once she found her bark, she would bark at every darn thing, whether in the house or outside. We taught her a command to be quiet and it seems to work unless a)the squirrel is in the tree, or b)the next door neighbor's dogs are alarm barking. I don't yell it, I just say (usually quieter than usual), "Shhh, quiet doggie." I'm up often in the middle of the night, or really early in the morning, and nothing makes the DH madder than having the dogs wake him up. I've gotten Star to where I tell her "quiet doggie" before I let her out and she does not bark. I think overall she barks less, too. Maybe she's just gotten older and more used to what is normal and what is not, or maybe she gets that barking displeases me, I don't know.

[Star]

I am no expert on this, but wanted to share my experience with Star and Seven. Seven (hound mix) only barks when it's relevant--there are people walking behind the property, she hears something unusual, someone comes to the door. I let her do it--I want her to bark at appropriate times. When we first got Star, I thought she would never bark. She didn't bark at anything, just ran along with Seven. Once she found her bark, she would bark at every darn thing, whether in the house or outside. We taught her a command to be quiet and it seems to work unless a)the squirrel is in the tree, or b)the next door neighbor's dogs are alarm barking. I don't yell it, I just say (usually quieter than usual), "Shhh, quiet doggie." I'm up often in the middle of the night, or really early in the morning, and nothing makes the DH madder than having the dogs wake him up. I've gotten Star to where I tell her "quiet doggie" before I let her out and she does not bark. I think overall she barks less, too. Maybe she's just gotten older and more used to what is normal and what is not, or maybe she gets that barking displeases me, I don't know.

I forgot to add that the first few times, when the quiet voice got her attention and she stopped I said, "GOOD quiet doggie, GOOD quiet doggie." Very motivating for this dog to be told GOOD.

[concrete]

Most of the time excessive barking is an outcome (that is why correcting alone typically does not work) of something else such as lack of exercise, lack of mental stimulation or sometimes too much stimulation.

I have had very good results from firm consistent correction. I usually have anywhere from six to ten dogs in my kennels and they don't bark a whole lot. Usually when people pull in the drive , the sheep get out, they hear a siren or some other out of the ordinary circumstance. A quick "that's enough" ends it.
I haven't found any correlation between exercise and barking. I would be interested in reading your information on barking and exercise. Could you point me to some on line references?

Kevin Brannon

[waffles]

I have had very good results from firm consistent correction. I usually have anywhere from six to ten dogs in my kennels and they don't bark a whole lot. Usually when people pull in the drive , the sheep get out, they hear a siren or some other out of the ordinary circumstance. A quick "that's enough" ends it.
I haven't found any correlation between exercise and barking. I would be interested in reading your information on barking and exercise. Could you point me to some on line references?

Kevin Brannon

It is a well accepted idea that lack of exercise in dogs leads to behavioral problems...barking being one of them. I don't know any well behaved dog that does absolutely nothing all day everyday. All dogs need some form of exercise to be happy and a happy dog is not a neurotic barking dog.

[dsmbc]

Waffles, I agree. mental and physical stimulation is a must. Dogs of any kind, but especially border collies, will turn to bad behavior out of frustration and boredom. barking is a biggie. I also agree that it is important, Inez, to pay attention to what is happening when your dogs are barking. I always put my dogs inside when I mow, because that will always set them off. However, you could train them to be quiet in kennels when you are not paying attention to them, or when you are mowing. Might require a training partner, but the idea would be like training any duration behavior, rewarding them along the way and slowly increasing the distraction levels, ie, work up to the mower.

[Inez]

Guess more of my question is with all the noise from coyote traffic in and out, other dog that carry on should I try to expect my dogs to be quiet. I have heard others say that there dogs are not to bark ,but there dogs are in enclosed buildings mine are in a partly enclosed kennels a top and half up sides. They do take correction for the barking but will start up after a while with all of the other goings on around here. At night I am not up to give constant corrections I run a fan and have for years and I don't hear anything. Should I build them an enclosed building. The BC do get lots of exercise and are not in the kennel all day long, They really like being with me and they are with me a lot. They take turn staying in the house at night 4 at a time is just a bit much for me HA Ha. Got to love those guys.


Perfect example just happen. Friend came in driveway all dogs went off. I taped on window they took the correction all is quiet. Just a busy place or should they be quiet? I do like knowing if someone is here.

[waffles]

Guess more of my question is with all the noise from coyote traffic in and out, other dog that carry on should I try to expect my dogs to be quiet. I have heard others say that there dogs are not to bark ,but there dogs are in enclosed buildings mine are in a partly enclosed kennels a top and half up sides. They do take correction for the barking but will start up after a while with all of the other goings on around here. At night I am not up to give constant corrections I run a fan and have for years and I don't hear anything. Should I build them an enclosed building. The BC do get lots of exercise and are not in the kennel all day long, They really like being with me and they are with me a lot. They take turn staying in the house at night 4 at a time is just a bit much for me HA Ha. Got to love those guys.


Perfect example just happen. Friend came in driveway all dogs went off. I taped on window they took the correction all is quiet. Just a busy place or should they be quiet? I do like knowing if someone is here.

One solution to the night time barking could be crating them at night in your home. Not sure if this is what you do already when you say they take turns being inside at night. But crating 4 in the house or even putting a gate up so they stay in a kitchen or something shouldn't be too much of a hassle as opposed to the barking. Your dogs could be calmer in the house without having to hear coyotes all night long. I guess it's up to you which is more inconvenient. BTW, the photo in your profile is adorable!

[Inez]

Thank you so much I am trying to learn how to post pictures. Finally did it and I am brain frazzled.

[concrete]

It is a well accepted idea that lack of exercise in dogs leads to behavioral problems...barking being one of them.

There should be a lot of information on this well accepted idea floating around the internet or in reference materials I could pick up at the library. I am always interested in looking at studies and research about canine behavior.C ould you direct me to a few that you are getting your facts from. I don't view most barking as behavior problem, just something I don't want to listen to all the time. So I would like to read more on the subject of barking being a behavior problem also.
I was at a trial in Greenfield this past weekend where you there Inez?

Kevin Brannon

[waffles]

There should be a lot of information on this well accepted idea floating around the internet or in reference materials I could pick up at the library. I am always interested in looking at studies and research about canine behavior.C ould you direct me to a few that you are getting your facts from. I don't view most barking as behavior problem, just something I don't want to listen to all the time. So I would like to read more on the subject of barking being a behavior problem also.
I was at a trial in Greenfield this past weekend where you there Inez?

Kevin Brannon

I don't know if you are trying to be snippy with me but no, I don't have facts for why exercise is good for your dog! It is common knowledge. Why do you think people walk their dogs and there are so many dog daycares, parks, toys, treadmills for dogs, etc? Because exercise isn't good for dogs and they're better off sitting around on the couch? Maybe in this case lack of exercise was not the issue, I only suggested it may be. I don't know any canine professional who would tell you that you are walking, training, playing, and running with your dog too much and you need to exercise them less to help their behavior. I don't know any dog owner who would say their dog is better off sitting around all day bored. There is a reason people say a tired dog is a good dog. If you want some kind of proven scientific study then go look it up yourself. All the proof I need is next to me now sleeping!

Also, just because you don't think jumping on people, barking incessantly, pulling on a leash, chewing furniture, dumping garbage cans, etc may not be a "behavioral" problem does not mean it isn't one. I know plenty of people who let their dogs do things that I would in no way tolerate with my dog. To each their own I guess.

[Inez]

I was at a trial in Greenfield this past weekend where you there Inez?<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); "><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(243, 249, 246); ">Kevin Brannon


No I was not I am not in the trialing circle. Didn't know there was a trial here. Was it a Claudia's. I have been to only 1 here at Vicki Brock's I probably never trial. Love to go watch another and watch them on RFD tv when they have them. I am not even training right at the moment I have a knee injury. Did you trial? How did you do? Like to read the boards and learn .Love my dogs.
Inez

[concrete]

Hi Inez,

I was at Claudia's and it was not my best trial outing, but I learned what I needed to work on. I haven't been to a trial for 7 years and that was a good one to get back into it . Hopefully I make it into the Fogt's trial this summer. The reason I asked though is that there are a few very good trainers close to you and quite a few good trainers. Claudia, Cole Hidey and Lyle Ladd all live in that area. I have learned more from a few hours with a good trainer then from years of reading internet opinions.
I must not have been clear in my post Waffles, I was just talking about excessive barking not behavior problems in dogs in general. I have some very well exercised dogs who would bark at the cats every time they walked by if they thought it was ok, so I don't see a relationship between a lot of exercise and less barking. In other words I think dogs bark regardless of the amount of exercise they have excepting of course extremes where they are to tired for much of anything. This is just my opinion though, I'm not a dog behaviorist and I have nothing other than my own experiences to base this on.

Kevin Brannon

[Inez]

Hi Kevin,Yes I know all but Lyle Ladd I have taken just a couple of classes with Denise Teal at Claudia's just got real busy with farm markets. I watch a lot of videos Rural Rout, First Steps in Border Collie training , Patrick Shannahan even though he did more talking he really help with the bubble explanation then Little Horse Mountain free videos on penning. I watch them for hours. I really think it helps me a lot because I can re watch I learn something every time. Nothing against a trainers but for me this seem to work out at the moment. My Jack I have to admit I would love to see if I could trial with him. at some point., but that probably won;t happen. I only live 15 min from Claudia and Cole. Let me know if there are other trials in the future close by I like to go and watch.



Inez
Hi Inez,

I was at Claudia's and it was not my best trial outing, but I learned what I needed to work on. I haven't been to a trial for 7 years and that was a good one to get back into it . Hopefully I make it into the Fogt's trial this summer. The reason I asked though is that there are a few very good trainers close to you and quite a few good trainers. Claudia, Cole Hidey and Lyle Ladd all live in that area. I have learned more from a few hours with a good trainer then from years of reading internet opinions.
I must not have been clear in my post Waffles, I was just talking about excessive barking not behavior problems in dogs in general. I have some very well exercised dogs who would bark at the cats every time they walked by if they thought it was ok, so I don't see a relationship between a lot of exercise and less barking. In other words I think dogs bark regardless of the amount of exercise they have excepting of course extremes where they are to tired for much of anything. This is just my opinion though, I'm not a dog behaviorist and I have nothing other than my own experiences to base this on.

Kevin Brannon
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