52 replies to this topic

[mum24dog]

People have repeatedly said that there is a great deal of ignorance about sheep farming and sheep dogs in North America and that people don't have the contact with that sort of world that many of us here in the UK have - can't move for the darned things.

I've accepted that but I suppose in my mind I'd assumed that there were plenty of sheep but few people saw them because of the huge distances involved.

However - I've just been doing a sheep population quiz on Sporcle which says that the US only has around 6.5m sheep whereas the little old UK has nearly 36m.(US 44th in the world, UK 7th.)

I had no idea the discrepancy was so wide and it explains a lot.

[gcv-border]

I had no idea that the discrepancy in numbers was so great either. Add in the the fact that the US is many times larger than the UK, and it is easy to understand why the ignorance exists.

Jovi

[Debbie Meier]

Then add in that approx. 5.5 million of those sheep are in only 10 states, all west of the Mississippi River I believe. Looking at it from our doorstep, I think Iowa is 10th, you could drive for miles and miles and never see a sheep.

[WildFlower]

Yes, having traveled to the UK a few years ago - before I was completely addicted to sheep dogs, farming, and trialing - I was amazed at the number of sheep you see driving from place to place. It was beautiful!

Being from WI, I guess I can compare the UK sheep population with WI's cow population. I don't think much of passing a farm here with cows out grazing but when I see sheep somewhere I get all excited!

[juliepoudrier]

Cattle definitely outnumber sheep in the US. Around where I live, there are a lot of small farms with small flocks, but you just don't see them they way you do cattle. And many people are completely ignorant of eating lamb (or have a mental picture of a fuzzy little lamb that they couldn't possibly eat!). A whole different culture for sure!

J.

[Mark Billadeau]

Page 4 of the US Sheep & Goat Inventory lists the sheep inventory by state.
You should keep in mind that climate and topography alters the agricultural uses of land; large tracks of tillable land are less likely to be used for raising livestock as compared to growing crops.

[bcnewe2]

(or have a mental picture of a fuzzy little lamb that they couldn't possibly eat!

Then they have never looked in a calf's eye. Pretty darn cute in their own right!

My sister still won't try my lamb. I don't push, it's her prerogative, but she's missing the boat in my mind!

I thought I heard awhile ago that some cattle farmers were switching over to sheep because they take less to care for with the droughts and all.
If it wasn't for fencing...they'd be a piece of cake! Until they get sick but I guess cattle get sick too.

[TEC]

However - I've just been doing a sheep population quiz on Sporcle which says that the US only has around 6.5m sheep whereas the little old UK has nearly 36m.(US 44th in the world, UK 7th.)

I had no idea the discrepancy was so wide and it explains a lot.

Here is link to recent digital edition of Sheep Industry News, which includes article on growing sheep industry in South Dakota. Sounds like a real opportunity for interested participants.

http://sheepindustrynews.org/

-- TEC

[Gloria Atwater]

The hard part about sheep farming is that they are so much more vulnerable to predators. Coyotes can take a small calf, but a wise mama cow can fight them off, whereas sheep are pretty soft targets, to every varmint out there. So, it could be risky for cattlemen to switch to sheep.

Dang, I had no idea the sheep population was so wildly divergent in the UK vs the US! Sure explains a lot, though. Interesting to note in the US Sheep & Goat Inventory that California is listed as second only to Texas in the top sheep population! I would have thought Wyoming or some such. I guess those 600,000 sheep must live wayyy off the beaten California path.

I know that when I first visited the UK three years ago, I was amazed at how farming and urban living were often separated by little more than a fence. Here would be a big flock of sheep, and there would be council housing and urban sprawl, complete with a Marks & Sparks. In northern Wales last year, I saw more sheep than people!

~ Gloria

[alligande]

And then there is New Zealand with its 40+ million sheep, as a Brit form Yorkshire I have seen lots of sheep but the amount that I saw on the South Island amazed me. I actually think it was because so many of them were in fields rather than the open hill land that you see in the north of England, Scotland and Wales. But remember not all of the UK has sheep, my mother now lives on the Kent coast an area known for vegetables/fruit/hops and you never see sheep, cows you do see.

[mum24dog]

And then there is New Zealand with its 40+ million sheep, as a Brit form Yorkshire I have seen lots of sheep but the amount that I saw on the South Island amazed me. I actually think it was because so many of them were in fields rather than the open hill land that you see in the north of England, Scotland and Wales. But remember not all of the UK has sheep, my mother now lives on the Kent coast an area known for vegetables/fruit/hops and you never see sheep, cows you do see.

My daughter was travelling in NZ a couple of years ago and doesn't recall seeing many sheep - but it could be that her brain filtered them out with being so used to them at home.

You're right about the south of the UK - I was at an agility show in the midlands and one southerner was complaining about the amount of sheep droppings around (it was a farm). It's normal for us northerners and sometimes we get the sheep as well (not often thankfully).

Right - I'm off now to a 4 day show in Yorkshire. One thing I can guarantee is that there will be a flock of sheep in the next field.

[mjk05]

We live in the first shire (like a county, I guess) in our state to have one million sheep- the locals are very proud of it
Of course, sheep numbers have fallen significantly in recent years, and last thing I heard they were down to 70-something million nationally.

You should keep in mind that climate and topography alters the agricultural uses of land; large tracks of tillable land are less likely to be used for raising livestock as compared to growing crops.

Climate might be a big issue- sheep management in very cold winters is something we don't have to deal with. But maybe it's also cultural (farming culture as well as market demand), because over here, sheep can be very useful even in broad acre cropping, for weed control etc. Most of our friends who are primarily cropping also run some sheep.

My daughter was travelling in NZ a couple of years ago and doesn't recall seeing many sheep - but it could be that her brain filtered them out with being so used to them at home.

Could be, or maybe she wasn't visiting the right areas? Or the hills got in the way ? I do remember sheep from a holiday in NZ, but mainly from a farmstay rather than driving around. I don't remember noting lots of sheep when I lived in the UK, or even from some driving holidays there. But maybe that's a relativity thing, as you suggested, or that I wasn't in the most heavily sheep-populated places.

[alligande]

When we were in the North Island we saw some sheep and wondered what the fuss was all about, then we went to the South Island and drove all over, that is where the sheep were. We were there at the end of January into Febuary and it might have been the time of year as we saw a lot of large triple decker trucks full of lambs heading to plants with names like the NZ food processing coop.

[mum24dog]

When we were in the North Island we saw some sheep and wondered what the fuss was all about, then we went to the South Island and drove all over, that is where the sheep were. We were there at the end of January into Febuary and it might have been the time of year as we saw a lot of large triple decker trucks full of lambs heading to plants with names like the NZ food processing coop.

My daughter was there in March/April and spent more time travelling the length and breadth of South Island than in North Island. Maybe she just isn't very observant.

[mum24dog]

I don't remember noting lots of sheep when I lived in the UK, or even from some driving holidays there. But maybe that's a relativity thing, as you suggested, or that I wasn't in the most heavily sheep-populated places.

Probably.

Last Friday I drove over the Pennines from the West Coast to the southern edge of the North York Moors and a field without sheep was a rarity. Not in the quantitities you get though - we don't have the room.

[Little Bo Boop]

I have a question in regards to your topic, why do you think it is that our (US) sheep producers don't promote sheep/lamb more aggessivly? We have fair amount of meat/hair sheep here in Texas, and I have no idea why they don't approach our big grocery chain, HEB, and pitch locally grown lamb/mutton. The lamb they sell in the local grocery is from either Australia or New Zealand, and I'm pretty sure it's a wool breed of sheep. We have quite a lot of Dorper, Katahdin, and St. Croix flocks in our state, and wow, if you've never had Dorper, you don't know what you've been missing! It is good, very lean, and doesn't have a real "sheep" taste to it; I cooked a Dorper roast on the grill one time, my parents didn't know what kind of meat it was ;-) they were very surprised when I told them lamb...ISTM that our local upscale/organic grocers would be ripe for someone to pitch them on locally grown meat sheep.

And yes, I understand Beef is king in Texas, but with the drought, cost of feed= high cost of beef, you would think lamb would be a good/viable alternative.

[Mark Billadeau]

In VA there was a coop selling lamb to a grocery store chain but this program was discontinued (Scott County Hair Sheep Association). There is a food coop in Frederick MD which sells selected cuts of locally raised lamb. Fresh Market sells local products but I've not been able to speak with the local buyer to find out how to become a local supplier (my emails and calls went unanswered).

The hardest part as I see it is being able to provide a steady supply of the selected cuts of lamb the grocery store is willing to sell and then having to deal with the remaining cuts of lamb.

Have you looked at the price of live cattle compared to live lamb; I doubt lamb prices will appeal to consumers compared to beef prices.

[alligande]

One observation I have about lamb that I have seen here in the states is the size of it. I used to rent a commercial kitchen from a meat market and he sells most of his lamb at easter but I am still amazed by the size of those legs, much much larger than the an imported NZ/Australian leg, or the legs you get in the UK. Which makes me think that too most americans, lamb has a very strong taste, as personally I find the taste strong very different even from the frozen legs of imported lamb I wonder if this is what turns people away.

[Sue R]

As Mark says, comparing current cattle and lamb prices, beef is downright thrifty! I have run the numbers quite a bit lately, comparing what I would be grossing on lamb (if I had gotten into producing lamb several years ago in a state-sponsored cost-share project) to what we gross on cattle, and I'd have been a lot better off quitting my job and getting those well-bred Katahdin ewe lambs to start a production flock than we are producing feeder calves...

One of this area's custom meat processing plants (small plant) stop doing custom beef several (maybe 5?) years back - it only processes lamb for a larger coop or producer. So, even though WV is not a "lamb state", there must be the numbers to keep this one small packing plant going full-time with lamb only. I expect the product is going east to DC, Baltimore, and other of the eastern seaboard high-population (and high-ethnic population) areas.

And there's always the issue that differs North American production from British Isles - predators. Mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, foxes (I know you have those), and stray/feral dogs (and I expect you have those).

And there's the culture - I think that North America has a long-standing culture of eating beef as a mainstay meat source, and the British Isles, NZ, and AU of eating lamb/mutton as a mainstay meat source.

[juliepoudrier]

I think year-round availability (or lack thereof) is also a driver here in the US. My landlord talked to a local restarateur who markets his food based on it being locally grown, etc., and he said that he can't really get people interested in lamb when he has it on his menu. He uses lamb as sausage, but doesn't bother offering it in any other form.

I talked to a chef at a well-known restaurant in Atlanta a few years ago, and he also said that he tried to offer American lamb when it was available, but that the supply was just to variable, which is why most of the year he gets NZ lamb.

I also talked to a local company, Farmhand Foods, who brokers locally grown beef and pork to local restaurants. I asked them if they would consider adding lamb to their offerings anf was told that they had enough room for growth of the beef and pork market that they didn't have any plans to consider adding lamb.

J.