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#41 MaryP

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:18 AM

Jumping issues... yes. It varies. Sometimes it just because he is out or not extending or just jumping sloppy. Other time its because handler motion. I can sometimes see when he is going to drop a bar when i just watch the handler.


This is a training issue. The dog has not learned that it's not OK to knock a bar. I've been through it with my own dog. Your friend needs to do a lot of jump work and not let her dog get away with knocking bars. And she needs to stop making excuses. And she needs an attitude adjustment. Glad she's your friend and not mine. :huh:
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#42 Rave

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:43 AM

Tell the person to become a judge. She can still get the social aspect of agility and won't have to fret about her Q-less dog.

Also, if she does keep going, she should learn how to massage the dog herself to save $$$.

#43 gcv-border

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:44 AM

As to what i am looking for. Ideas to keep them going or at least another way to look at it. Like the idea of is this the best way for the dog aspect.


There have been multiple suggestions put forth here (and said in a more elegant way than I can convey), and IMHO, most of them very valid. What I think you are looking for are ideas that are simple and straightforward and do not require an attitude adjustment on the part of the handler. Based on what you have described, this handler is not willing to listen.

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#44 Maralynn

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

After reading all of this the only thing I can say is that there is no solution inside of the narrow parameters that your friend has set. They need to get their head out of the clouds and understand reality.

If the goal is to have fun with the dog, have fun with the dog. If the goal is to be a top competitor, then get a different dog. You don't *have* to do something with a dog just because it's you heart dog.

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#45 beachdogz

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:21 AM

This is so not about the dog (barring any physical complications) -- it's about the handler. Your dogs don't know if you Q or not....they only know if they enjoy it or not. Your friends heart dog has provided more than she realizes - this is the dog that got her started and interested (if this is her first dog, which I am thinking it is) and she has learned more from this dog than she realizes - and that will help her with her next dog(s). This dog is a wealth of knowledge that she will carry on through all her competition dogs. Basically, this dog will continue to live through all her other dogs that she trains and competes with.

Back in my day (now I'm really dating myself) there was only AKC obedience (cd, cdx, ud --and no OTCH yet) and NA agility (which had not even made it to our area, except for the Jack Russell people that I hung out with and who introduced me to agility way back then.) So back in my day, if your dog couldn't jump the 1 1/2 times jump requirement by AKC, you retired the dog. Today, jump heights are lower and I am amazed at the many, many ways you can compete and continue to compete....so many different categories in agility and so many agility sponsors so that no one should get bored!

At the end of the day, you take the dog home and love the dog till the day it dies....and it really doesn't matter if it has one thousand titles or none. It took me a long time to realize that....my dogs didn't know if they had a UD after their name or a CH before it....but they did know they were loved.
"Saving one dog will not change the world, but surely, the world will be changed for that one dog"

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#46 beachdogz

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 09:22 AM

After reading all of this the only thing I can say is that there is no solution inside of the narrow parameters that your friend has set. They need to get their head out of the clouds and understand reality.

If the goal is to have fun with the dog, have fun with the dog. If the goal is to be a top competitor, then get a different dog. You don't *have* to do something with a dog just because it's you heart dog.


Just read this after I posted. WELL SAID!
"Saving one dog will not change the world, but surely, the world will be changed for that one dog"

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#47 Shetlander

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

At the end of the day, you take the dog home and love the dog till the day it dies....and it really doesn't matter if it has one thousand titles or none. It took me a long time to realize that....my dogs didn't know if they had a UD after their name or a CH before it....but they did know they were loved.


Exactly. My first agility dog was my heart dog. He died shortly before he was 7. As I grieved for him, one of the things I did to try to ease my pain was make a quilt out of his many ribbons. It turned out really nice and hangs in my bedroom where I admire it from time to time. But when I was making it, ribbon by ribbon and when I look at it today, I don't think of his titles or the Q's. I think of how much fun we had, what a true partner he was, the fact that agility has never been the same for me since losing him and how much I miss him to this day.

I know my dog had a blast doing agility, but even more he knew how much I loved him whether we were playing in the yard, competing in a show, hanging out together or during those last moments when I held him as he died. He was loved. That is what is important and what all our dogs, with their amazing capacity to love us despite all our shortcomings, deserve.

Liz


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#48 PSmitty

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:36 AM

But is continuing the best way for the dog? Based on what you are saying, I'm not convinced that it is.

1. The dog has physical issues/limitations that require a notable amount of assistance to keep the dog in condition to play. While this in and of itself is not necessarily a problem, you have stated that the handler is taking that cost into account, so it factors into the decision.

2. The handler is apparently more concerned about Q's than she is about the fact that the team is running better than they ever have and that the dog is doing his best, in spite of past injuries.

3. The handler is frustrated and is considering quitting, in spite of the fact that Agility is a big social outlet for her. If she is that frustrated, there is no way the dog doesn't perceive that in some way, and I would wonder exactly how dealing with that can be good for the dog and add to his enjoyment of the game.



If the main concern of the handler is giving the dog a chance to play the game simply because he loves it, it seems to me that she would be more open to running at a lower jump height and/or finding a venue for the dog that might be more appropriate.

Based on what you are saying, I am getting the very distinct impression that the desire to Q in AKC at regular jump heights is far more important to this handler. If that is the case, then it may well be prudent to put those Q hopes on one of the younger up and coming dogs.


Yes, this. My feelings, exactly.
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#49 PSmitty

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 11:39 AM

And can I get a big AMEN to what Liz, beachdogz and Maralynn just said in their last posts?

AMEN!
Paula
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#50 MaryP

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 12:19 PM

At the end of the day, you take the dog home and love the dog till the day it dies....and it really doesn't matter if it has one thousand titles or none. It took me a long time to realize that....my dogs didn't know if they had a UD after their name or a CH before it....but they did know they were loved.


Spot On!

This so gets to the bottom line that I actually started to tear up when I read it, which wasn't good, since I was sitting in the waiting room at the dentist. If you view your relationship with your dog in any other way, then I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on the best part about having a dog, which is unfortunate because we don't get to enjoy them as long as we would like to.
Mary, Milo, Charlie, Skittles, & Ollie
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#51 PSmitty

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:36 PM

If you view your relationship with your dog in any other way, then I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on the best part about having a dog, which is unfortunate because we don't get to enjoy them as long as we would like to.


THIS is spot on!

I'm sure a lot of agility judges say this type of thing, but...at a recent trial, the judge gave his usual briefing, and then talked about remembering why we play, and what's important out there. About how he thinks of the dogs he ran who aren't here anymore, and how he'd give anything to be able to run them again. After having a very bad trial shortly before, that really put the Q chasing into perspective for me. I'm human, and want to be successful like anyone else, but there's a bottom line, and ribbons and titles ain't it.
Paula
Lilly, Jack, Alex & Will

#52 rushdoggie

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:03 PM

At the end of the day, you take the dog home and love the dog till the day it dies....and it really doesn't matter if it has one thousand titles or none. It took me a long time to realize that....my dogs didn't know if they had a UD after their name or a CH before it....but they did know they were loved.


Spot On!

This so gets to the bottom line that I actually started to tear up when I read it, which wasn't good, since I was sitting in the waiting room at the dentist. If you view your relationship with your dog in any other way, then I feel sorry for you. You are missing out on the best part about having a dog, which is unfortunate because we don't get to enjoy them as long as we would like to.


It made me cry too. I lost my heart dog just 3 weeks ago and I still physically ache every single time I think of him. I too experienced the loss of an agility dog who was really special when he hurt his back, and yeah it kind of sucked that I didn't have a dog to play agility with for several years after that.

But I wouldn't trade our remaining time together for anything, and in the end whatever titles or recognition he got pales in comparison to his greatest role which was being my friend.

If your friend can't get past this, well I feel sorry for her.

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#53 coyotecreek

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:56 AM

Im just an agility neewb..but if this dog is truly her "heart" dog..wouldnt she want to set him up to excel where he CAN excel? I dropped both my heart dogs to preferred due to a mental problem with one and a physical issue with the other..my goal was to make it fun for them and me..

as someone who experienced an intense discouragment ment recently at a trial..which made me question why I do this..within 5 minutes I was mad at MYSELF for feeling that way..espc when I saw the look on my dog's face of utter confusion of why I was so dissapointed and discouraged when we had so much FUN! (in his mind)

It BROKE my heart..he knew I was dissapointed in him..Ill never do that to him again..

I think this handler needs a reality check and to re-evaluate why she is truly doing agility..
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, til the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
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#54 SS Cressa

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

:) she finished his titles this past weekend. So no quitting for him(her border collie). He even placed against some very tough competitors! :)

He seems to be doing awesome using the back on track coat and with Cheaper massages. (She doesnt massage since he fights her when she tries. )


Stella S.

(5H)MACH 2 Cresent Moon MXF, 2011 PGP Nat' CH (Handle by Denise Thomas), 2011 Speed Jumpers 5th placed finalist (Handle by Denise Thomas). ~Thanks to Denise Thomas for handling Cressa so well at agility nationals and when I wasn't able to.

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