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BOB Collie at Westminster sired by a double merle


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#121 Liz P

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:24 PM

Just curious... Can you breed a HTCD to a Border Collie and register the pups? Would that not help with the limited gene pool?

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#122 NRhodes

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:22 PM

Just curious... Can you breed a HTCD to a Border Collie and register the pups? Would that not help with the limited gene pool?


No you can't, you can only get appendix papers on pups out of parents who are both registered with the Hangin' Tree Cowdog Association. On one hand when you look at the majority of dog's close up pedigrees a lot of them appear very close, when you go back farther (three generations or more of pedigrees of dogs still living. I can't think offhand of any dog still living with a foundation ancestor closer) you find dogs of different breeds (and different lines within those breeds) which makes the genetics much more diverse than they originally appear. So it's really hard to say whether we will eventually get "too inbred" or whether we can continue to call it line breeding (if you've heard that saying) LOL.
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#123 terrecar

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:43 PM

They appear to be incredibly tough dogs, whatever their genetic composition.
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#124 Liz P

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:51 PM

So it is a closed registry? Is there a reason they wanted closed stud books?

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#125 NRhodes

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:19 PM

So it is a closed registry? Is there a reason they wanted closed stud books?


Yes the registry is closed. I would suppose the main reason being the man who started the HTC is up into his 80s and no longer raising and training dogs, his son who helped him with the project has passed away, and he is not able to control what would be used as foundation dogs. So with the idea of protecting his vision of what he thought the dogs should be he is preventing everyone and his brother from crossing up some dogs and calling them HTC. Probably a good idea. Tho I still run across breeder ads on various sites or craigslist of people advertising crossbred dogs and calling them HTC because they have some of the base breeds in there used to start the HTC... altho they have no actual HTC blood in them. So unless a dog or pup comes with a set of papers from the HTC Association you can't always go by what people tell you.
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#126 MrSnappy

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:47 PM

No more merle to merle breedings allowed in the UK kennel club: http://www.thekennel...tem/4303/23/5/3

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#127 juliepoudrier

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:58 PM

Well that's a little confusing. Is the list they give those breeds for whom the breed clubs requested the ban on such breedings at an earlier time? The first paragraph says no merle to merle litters, but then the next paragraph lists just a very few breeds. So is it no merle to merle or just in the breeds listed? I hope/suspect the former, but wonder....

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#128 geonni banner

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

Well that's a little confusing. Is the list they give those breeds for whom the breed clubs requested the ban on such breedings at an earlier time? The first paragraph says no merle to merle litters, but then the next paragraph lists just a very few breeds. So is it no merle to merle or just in the breeds listed? I hope/suspect the former, but wonder....

J.

"the Kennel Club will no longer accept the registration of any puppies for any breed that are produced as a result of mating two merle (dapple) coloured parents together."

Italics mine.


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#129 juliepoudrier

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:21 PM

I got that part Geonni, then they go on to list specific breeds. My question was whether that list was meant to denote the breeds whose breed clubs had previously asked the KC not to recognize merle to merle breedings. The way the whole thing is worded seems to leave the actual rule open to some interpretation, even if that wasn't the intent.

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#130 terrecar

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 07:28 PM

The all breed ban on merle to merle breedings is effective Jan 2013. The double merle for specific breeds mentioned are not recognized now (already) because their parent (breed) clubs petitioned the KC not to accept the registrations for their specific breeds prior to this all breed decision, and the KC honored their request.



ETA: The answer is "yes" to what Julie asked here: " My question was whether that list was meant to denote the breeds whose breed clubs had previously asked the KC not to recognize merle to merle breedings."

#131 Tea

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:18 AM

I found this interesting article about merles in catahoulas.





http://www.donabney....issue_merle.php




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