Jump to content


Photo

outrun


6 replies to this topic

#1 tbc

tbc

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 4 posts

Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:18 AM

i was trying to fix my dogs outrun...coming in a little flat at the top and lying down so as to not lift the sheep too fast. I thought things were working fairly well but a new problem developed. My dog will sometimes lie down on its own and stop short on the top of its outrun...like 10 or 11 o'clock. so how much do i worry about this? how to fix?

#2 ajm

ajm

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 164 posts

Posted 23 January 2012 - 01:09 PM

"You've got me downhearted cause I can't get started with you." You can't get started without a good outrun. In a casual conversation with Johnny Wilson, he once remarked that the outrun was the most important facet of a dog. "Without it, you were nowhere." How true. It settles ties. It defeats your run before you have even have sheep to your feet. There is nothing remedial that can be done from the post , that will not lose you points. If a dog is bad out runner, you are instantly handicapped. Many other problems can be handled with skill, but not an outrun.
"How much do I worry about this?" Let me keep all blunt objects and firearms away from you, until she runs right. Sometimes all feelings are otherwise, but no dog is worth suicide, only because you can always get another dog.
No one can guarantee you will repair a bad outrun. Your dog being young will enhance your chances. Your dog being older, with more entrenched behaviours, will make repair less likely. Practising doing the wrong thing, cements behaviour as much a practising doing the right thing. You are speaking of a history of correcting outrun problems so I interpret that to mean a consistent trouble that has gone on successfully for some time. Here are a couple of things you can try.
This dog has to come back to at hand work--a distance where you are in a position to intervene and correct her/him. If you outrun big distances there is very little you can do for a stop short, outside of pleading on hand and knee for them to go further. This is no time to go big or go home. Fix it close up before you adventure into distances.
The other thing I would question is your sheep. Are they so doggy, they are off before the dog arrives, therein making a wrong outrun sort of right, under the circumstances? They practise stopping wrong, not finishing off the cast to its 20 point conclusion. Do that often enough at home, and you have them already to do it at trials. If your sheep are the start of the problem, re-arrange your outruns so the sheep do not go off before your dog gets there, either by gathering from somewhere else, or by getting some one to spot them for you.
Some people are crazy enough about their dogs that they can live with bad outrunning. I would have a terrible time having any affection for a poor outrunner. I could have no tolerance. If you are prepared to lose five points or there about, every time you take to the post, OK. Run on. If you are the agent of the problem, (and I am not saying that you are), best to re-examine your dog training habits, under the watchful eye of a skilled professional or you will re-introduce the problem to your next generation of dogs.

#3 tbc

tbc

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 4 posts

Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:03 PM

Well amanda now im scared...my dog is under 2 yr old and this is all recent goings on so im hoping she works through this with your suggestions.

#4 ajm

ajm

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 164 posts

Posted 23 January 2012 - 02:57 PM

Two years old is hopeful. Go.
Don't be scared. Take action.
You haven't told us about your sheep scene.



Well amanda now im scared...my dog is under 2 yr old and this is all recent goings on so im hoping she works through this with your suggestions.



#5 tbc

tbc

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 4 posts

Posted 24 January 2012 - 11:27 PM

The sheep are very dogged and heavy at times.

So i went out and worked today. I used all your suggestions. The dog responded well and the issue resolved. So i think there were a few things goin on that caused this to start. Changing the sheep around, changing the outrun seemed to help alot.

I also decided to not get on the dog for stopping at the the top. But let the dog just keep goin on as long as the sheep wasnt racing. And this seemed to give the dog some momentum.

So this leads me to my next question. Is it possible that i came down too hard and broke some of my dogs momentum in trying to get a complete stop?

#6 ajm

ajm

    Senior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 164 posts

Posted 25 January 2012 - 10:31 AM

If you can change your sheep situation, do. Good that you switched things around and got results.

It is entirely possible that you have come down too hard on your dog. Normally, novice hands do the opposite and give their dogs too much leeway. So the problem does not rise to the top of the usual suspects. There is a fine line in training where, overdoing it and letting things be slack, meet. The most skilled trainers among us, inspire their dogs to do the right thing and discourage them from doing the wrong thing, without demoralizing them. We all want to see a dog give a job everything the dog has. Seeing the defeated one, whose morale has dissipated, is our sport gone south. Chose your battles. Sitting down, and thinking about problems, can often bring an angle to dog and hand at loggerheads that will not be so combative, and therefore smoother, more agreeable, stress free, training. Both you and your dog can be happier.

You tell me of problems on this forum. I answer. The down side is, that the questioners reporting may be all wrong. My speculative answer is then of no use. There is no replacement for having a very experienced, accomplished pro, examine your training habits and techniques, and suggesting alternatives that might be more successful.

Amanda

#7 tbc

tbc

    Junior Member

  • Registered Users
  • 4 posts

Posted 25 January 2012 - 08:23 PM

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.



Reply to this topic



  

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Copyright: All posts and images on this site are protected by copyright, and may not be reproduced or distributed in any way without permission. Banner photo courtesy of Denise Wall, 2009 CDWall. For further information, contact info@bordercollie.org.