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Come bye to me?!


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#1 ejano

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:12 PM

An interesting experience with Robin today. He's unfortunately learned a pattern which I'm attempting to break. Drive them through the first gate, then down the field to where I've set up pylons that approximate the gate ahead of them from which we will make our forays into the orchard next spring. He took them nicely down the field, through the gates but when I asked him for a "come bye" to bring the sheep back to me, he darted back to me, circled around me neatly in a Come Bye and then headed back to the sheep, going straight into them as they'd drifted toward us. His intention was to push them back through the "gate" (pylons).

I quickly laid him down then set up a different "play", sending him around as I walked toward the sheep,then bringing him up behind them, which he did well, but his other behavior is a bit confusing. Does he think because I've mostly been with the sheep and he's circled around me for his flanks, that he must always include me in the flank?

His flanks are still weak -- the away side is stronger. I want to work on short outruns with him. How do I set him up for a successful transition where I am not included?

Liz

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---Louis Sabin - All about Dogs as Pets.

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Ladybug, Brodie, Robin


#2 bcnewe2

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:49 AM

Did you train inside flanks by having him go round you to help with the pressure? If so then he's probably learned that if he can, he'll flank round you too.

Sometimes the pressures they feel are not easy to feel or see by us. Look again at your request and look for unusual pressure that might send him back towards you.

JM ideas....

Kristen
 

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Full of people waiting to be offended by something!

 

 

 

 


#3 ejano

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 12:21 PM

Did you train inside flanks by having him go round you to help with the pressure? If so then he's probably learned that if he can, he'll flank round you too.

Sometimes the pressures they feel are not easy to feel or see by us. Look again at your request and look for unusual pressure that might send him back towards you.

JM ideas....

It's a good idea -- I had my back to the barn, an escape route that always has his zealous attention. So, in "collecting" me he may have been guarding the rear as well. I do let he and Brodie circle abreast or just ahead of me when we're headed back to the barn because the sheep will occasionally make a dash for it, and both dogs seem to need to do this for their own comfort level.

He's also still lapping me when we work on inside flanks, though not as often. I'm a bit more fleet of foot these days and he's slowing down. He's also starting to pay more attention to where I'm at in his balance work and not just working the sheep for his own joy, which is what I need to accomplish as he's sometimes mistrustful of my requests, fearing the girls will escape.

Yesterday was a transitional day to see how he would work out his challenges - me behind him, sending him on short outruns, having him wear/fetch the sheep from different directions. He's learned to send them through the south gate and bring them back through the north gate, so we switched it up and did the reverse. Sheep and dog were both confused. "We don't do this that way," Daffodil, my "puppy" sheep, trotted up to inform me. Robin sorted it all out eventually but it took him 3-4 tries to get it right, mainly I think because he just didn't believe that I wanted to do it that way and the sheep were balky because the north gate is a straight shot back to the barn.


Sunny and warmish...we'll try again today!

No matter how little money and how few possessions you own, having a dog makes you rich."
---Louis Sabin - All about Dogs as Pets.

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Ladybug, Brodie, Robin


#4 Jim Kling

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 03:13 PM

My understanding is that inside flanks are challenging for a dog because their instincts are to put the sheep between them and us. Going behind you on an inside flank is a tendency that my dog had at first as well, possibly because he felt better I remained in his field of vision.

We corrected it in the round pen. I stood at the fence with the sheep in front of me, then called him on an inside flank. I pressed against the fence so he couldn't get behind me. I'd guess it would work along any fence line.
Jim
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#5 Pam Wolf

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:06 PM

My Dair would do that when we started driving. And she was never taught flanks going behind me. It was just a quirk of hers. I took her to a Bobby Dalziel clinic and we put her on a long line and fixed the problem in one session. Her driving has been great since starting her on the long line.
I'd rather be a shepherd than a sheepdogger

#6 Donald McCaig

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:30 AM

Dear Wouldbe Sheepdoggers,

I don't know if I ever had an open dog who wouldn't occasionally circle behind me when an inside flank didn't give the dog comfortable/no stress` room. It happens all the time with young dogs when training the drive. Back up or against a fence. It's a problem that goes away by itself.

Donald McCaig


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