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A wolf in sheepdog's clothing


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#1 JaderBug

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:24 PM

My cousin recently sent me a photo of a puppy that his boss bought- a wolf x Border Collie. Thought I would think it was cool because he knows my love of Border Collies- I just cringed. Adorable puppy, very unique markings, but bottom line is WHY.

I told my cousin to let his boss know that wolf mixes can be very difficult to train and that he should seek professional training help immediately if (when) problems should arise, and that puppy classes would be very beneficial (especially since the pup came home at 6 weeks <_< ). The owner thought that being mixed with a Border Collie would make training easier, I am convinced that would probably make it worse. The Border Collie stereotype in full action. I have no idea how much experience this person has with Border Collies, wolves, wolfdogs, or dogs for that matter.

For the life of me I can't understand why breeding ANYTHING to a wolf would be appealing or beneficial. What is this dog going to be like when she gets older? What kind of hurdles can the owners expect?

Care to make any wagers for length of time before a rescue/shelter/animal control is contacted?? :unsure:

I bet she'd have a hell of a hit/grip on livestock... :blink:

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#2 rushdoggie

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:09 AM

I must agree, that seems like a spectacularly bad idea. Are you sure its a wolf and not a husky? I have known a few people who guessed at the mix of a dog and decided it was a wolf mix because it had husky-like features.

I actually knew a BC/Sibe cross who was pretty cool.

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#3 Liz P

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:41 AM

My understanding is that 99% of those "wolf dog" pups are just husky crosses sold to suckers.

I did know a real wolf x Border Collie. When he hit puberty he became scary wolf like and I would not handle him anymore. By the time he was 2 yrs old she stopped taking him into public places for fear he woulf hurt someone.

Wolf dogs are a seriously bad idea as pets.

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#4 JaderBug

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:52 AM

Are you sure its a wolf and not a husky?


No I am not 100% sure it is a wolf cross- but the photo of her doesn't look like any husky- or shepherd-mix I've ever seen. Dark legs, dark face, and a lighter colored body, her coat definitely suggests wolf to me, as well as her face... see attached photo. The owner knows/is related to the breeder from what I understand.

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and it has continued in its acute form ever since." -H. Glyn Jones


#5 Debbie Meier

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:18 AM

Adorable puppy, very unique markings, but bottom line is WHY.


No different then any other designer breed, someone wanted it.


We have a friend that used to have one, until it was stolen. He said that that dog was the most loyal companion that he ever had. He has working dogs now, still talks about that dog in a affectionate way but has more purpose for a good working dog then what that hybred dog offered as a companion.


A number of years ago when we still had many come here with different breeds we had a lady come in with some German Shepherd/Wolf Hybreds to test on livestock. They were nothing like a person would imagine. Actually quite the opposite, quiet, a bit timid and easily discouraged. Boy, where they ever loyal and bonded to her. It was very easy to have them misunderstand what you wanted and actually end up convincing them to not engage the livestock. Kinda the nature of the beast, opting to wait for the easy meal instead. I've seen way more damage done by dogs that are touted as Herding Bred then any of those wolf hybreds, granted seen more attack type herding dogs.

Ever see a ewe that had a chunk of meat taken out from between her tail head and hip bone? Looks just like the wolf attack photos, pet owned by someone hunting titles did that move.

Sorry to say that non purpose bred pet herding dogs are as dangerous or more then that little pup is apt to be along with the chance that the owner will be more wary of it knowing that it is part wolf.
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#6 Laurae

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:42 AM

You let your sheep be "worked" by a presumed wolf hybrid?

Sounds like your sheep were quite lucky.

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#7 Debbie Meier

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:02 AM

Back in the day....as I said, the other breeds caused more harm and were more of a threat. Alot to do with what they were allowed to do all in the name of proving that they could "herd". Those where the days when the sheep would make the pens larger by running head long into the fences and lambs had to be lifted free of the wire after being chased and running up the wire and hanging upside down. The days when we believed what we were told, that that was how it was done.

Don't forget that our first introduction to herding was from a title/sport direction. Money money money...
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#8 Pam Wolf

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:32 PM

Deb many today don't know what things were like in the past where dogs crashing stock into the fences was more the norm and many people thought the dogs were not working if they were not crashing stock into the fences.
I'd rather be a shepherd than a sheepdogger

#9 Debbie Meier

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:48 PM

"Back in the day" is simply relative, each persons back in the day is different based on their circle of friends at that time. I'm just glad that I didn't have a digital video camera 5-6 years ago, hate to even look at the old VHS tapes I have, they are evidence that should probably be destroyed.
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#10 Smalahundur

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 04:00 PM

I'm just glad that I didn't have a digital video camera 5-6 years ago, hate to even look at the old VHS tapes I have, they are evidence that should probably be destroyed.

So no chance of digitizing those for the morbidly curious.... B)

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#11 Debbie Meier

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 04:31 PM

So no chance of digitizing those for the morbidly curious....


Best not, I believe there are some that others would not be happy to see as I don't think that they are all of us. Better off with what is remembered, would hate to see that it was even worse then I recall, but then again, don't they always say it doesn't look as bad as it feels? Problem is, back then it didn't feel wrong, we thought it was right or would lead us there. Oh what our sheep used to put up with....I beleive we still have one ewe in the flock that could tell stories if she could speak.
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#12 simba

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:53 PM

Even clueless little me can see why this is a horrible idea. Preaching to the choir here, but I just want to know if there's anything I've missed.

A wolf can sometimes work out as a pet when with a knowledgeable handler who knows how to keep it right- which is why we now have dogs (because wolves are good enough pets to domesticate but not as good as dogs at it). They're much worse than dogs at being trained, they're very intelligent so take a lot of minding, and they need a lot of exercise and canine-savviness. Plus they're not bred to be sociable like dogs are so may be timid around strangers. And they're known for killing smaller animals and not being good with kids.

Then we have the border collie, which can work out as a pet with a knowledgeable handler who knows how to keep it right. Obviously they're a dog so very different, but they need more minding, exercise, canine savvness and often socialisation than most dogs (I've seen a few downright dangerous sheepdogs, because of lack of socialisation). And they're known for killing smaller animals and not being good with kids if untrained.

Then you take these two and combine them in a form that only the clueless will buy- the wolf people probably won't want one, the sheepdog people probably won't want one. A dog that could have been purpose-built to be godawful with clueless people.

Is this an evil plot to discourage certain people from being dog-owners?

#13 Maralynn

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 04:23 PM

IMO, that pup looks A LOT like a darker Malinois puppy

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#14 Tea

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:26 PM

Wolves are not good pets.They Do not become trained.



They are illegal to own



The photo looks like a dog.


When we have suspected high % we can do DNA,

skull and teeth measurements is what we looked at in the old days.



Also most animals that people think are hybrids are northern dog mixes sold as hybrids.



These northern dog mixes can be predatory and look wolfy enough I guess.




There is however a black market in all wildlife.



#15 geonni banner

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:47 PM

IMO, that pup looks A LOT like a darker Malinois puppy

I think you might be right. In any case it doesn't look much like a wolf. Too much timber and little bitty feet.

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#16 Maralynn

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:11 PM

OT but I saw a cool little Malinois today. A beautiful dark girl about 40# full grown and had some nice natural talent on sheep. I love my border collies but would totally go for a dog like that if I found one. She would have a very wolf like appearance to the average person.

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#17 Liz P

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:35 PM

That doesn't look at all like a wolf dog, and that color is quite common in some breeds. Check out Elkhounds and Keeshonds.

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#18 mbc1963

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 04:16 AM

For what it's worth, it's a BEAUTIFUL pup. I love those Malinois-looking, malamute-looking dogs. ::Sigh::

Buddy's two best malamute friends moved out of the neighborhood about 6 months ago. I still miss their hooooowling when we went to visit.

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#19 PSmitty

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:49 PM

IMO, that pup looks A LOT like a darker Malinois puppy


My first thought, as well.
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